Eurocypria Airlines LTD Incident EPKT 2009-11-09
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Eurocypria Airlines LTD Incident EPKT 2009-11-09
Another hair rising incident by a Cyprus airline Eurocypria Airlines LTD.
Aircraft reg. 5B-DBV
Boeing 737-800
Date: 2009-11-09, 20:36 LT
Rough translation of the report of the Polish Accident Investigation Board:
http://www.mi.gov.pl/files/0/30675/2009962RW.pdf
Flight from the airport, situated at one of the Canary Islands-Fuerteventura (GCFV) to Katowice (EPKT) was the second flight of the crew landing in Katowice. The crew conducted the approach to runway 27 at epkt by ils system at atmospheric conditions at the airport at 19.30 utc: wind 210 °/2 kt, rvr for runway 27 was 350 m by the presence of fog, and the lower limit of clouds was determined to 100 ft
Minima for airport and crew for the approach in CAT I are: rvr _ 550m and cloud base 200 ft. After touch down to the left of the centre line the aircraft left main and front gear left the runway and then for approximately 373 m remained outside of the runway damaging part of the two edge lamps. The right main landing gear wheel during this time, remained on the asphalt of the runway.
The aircraft returned to the runway and has eventually stooped.
In his submission, the pilot (cpt) stated, that he probably took left edge light for non-existent central line lights. After parking on stand crew did not report any observations. FO of the anding crew provided the information for the crew from Katowice to Warsaw, that he will do the PFI– CPT of amending crew accepted this.
As a result, FO of the previous crew checked only left main landing gear without performing properly throughout the PDI-pre departure inspection.
When doing this FO did not have a flash-light for lighting of aircraft elements contained in the PDI procedure. As a result, he skipped checking the front landing gear, the right main landing gear and other items subject to PDI. In the action FO, has not detected damaged tyres of the front gear, right front wheel rim and headlamp on the protectors of the gears. Undetected remained corruption of the tyres right main landing gear internal wheels.
Each of these faults should have resulted in the inability of the aircraft for further flight until Exchange all damaged items. After returning to the aircraft FO reported to the CPT for the crew to Warsaw, aircraft is OK.
During the push back person monitoring this process on the ground, reported broken landing headlamp to CPT.
CPT asked FO of the previous flight (previous crew was returning to Warsaw on board of the aircraft) if when executing PDI he noted any damaged headlamp, FO reported "negative".
Therefore, the CPT minimum equipment list (MEL) allows him to complete the flight to Warsaw and has no objection to the efficiency of the aircraft. After loading in Warsaw and checking the status and tyres of the front gear, CPT wrote a ASR report entry, has filed it to the logbook, handed over the aircraft to the technical personnel, and then both crews proceeded to the hotel.
Aircraft reg. 5B-DBV
Boeing 737-800
Date: 2009-11-09, 20:36 LT
Rough translation of the report of the Polish Accident Investigation Board:
http://www.mi.gov.pl/files/0/30675/2009962RW.pdf
Flight from the airport, situated at one of the Canary Islands-Fuerteventura (GCFV) to Katowice (EPKT) was the second flight of the crew landing in Katowice. The crew conducted the approach to runway 27 at epkt by ils system at atmospheric conditions at the airport at 19.30 utc: wind 210 °/2 kt, rvr for runway 27 was 350 m by the presence of fog, and the lower limit of clouds was determined to 100 ft
Minima for airport and crew for the approach in CAT I are: rvr _ 550m and cloud base 200 ft. After touch down to the left of the centre line the aircraft left main and front gear left the runway and then for approximately 373 m remained outside of the runway damaging part of the two edge lamps. The right main landing gear wheel during this time, remained on the asphalt of the runway.
The aircraft returned to the runway and has eventually stooped.
In his submission, the pilot (cpt) stated, that he probably took left edge light for non-existent central line lights. After parking on stand crew did not report any observations. FO of the anding crew provided the information for the crew from Katowice to Warsaw, that he will do the PFI– CPT of amending crew accepted this.
As a result, FO of the previous crew checked only left main landing gear without performing properly throughout the PDI-pre departure inspection.
When doing this FO did not have a flash-light for lighting of aircraft elements contained in the PDI procedure. As a result, he skipped checking the front landing gear, the right main landing gear and other items subject to PDI. In the action FO, has not detected damaged tyres of the front gear, right front wheel rim and headlamp on the protectors of the gears. Undetected remained corruption of the tyres right main landing gear internal wheels.
Each of these faults should have resulted in the inability of the aircraft for further flight until Exchange all damaged items. After returning to the aircraft FO reported to the CPT for the crew to Warsaw, aircraft is OK.
During the push back person monitoring this process on the ground, reported broken landing headlamp to CPT.
CPT asked FO of the previous flight (previous crew was returning to Warsaw on board of the aircraft) if when executing PDI he noted any damaged headlamp, FO reported "negative".
Therefore, the CPT minimum equipment list (MEL) allows him to complete the flight to Warsaw and has no objection to the efficiency of the aircraft. After loading in Warsaw and checking the status and tyres of the front gear, CPT wrote a ASR report entry, has filed it to the logbook, handed over the aircraft to the technical personnel, and then both crews proceeded to the hotel.
Last edited by Ptkay; 9th Dec 2009 at 12:34.
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I wouldn't necessarily pin this on a "Cyprus" outfit. This ignorance and oblioviousness is a systemic tumor that goes waaaayyyyyyy deeper than geographic location.
When you mix recklessness with inexperience, you get a dangerous cocktail.
If people only knew what they're paying for!!!
When you mix recklessness with inexperience, you get a dangerous cocktail.
If people only knew what they're paying for!!!
I Have Control
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Standards are low and falling. Experience is diminishing. Commercial pressures are ramping up.
These people were fortunate. (Passengers and crew). Expect more such events in 2010 and beyond. And they won't be confined to small carriers.
These people were fortunate. (Passengers and crew). Expect more such events in 2010 and beyond. And they won't be confined to small carriers.
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Just read the original incident report.
The behavior of the inbound crew was plain criminal! If these cats didn't realize that there was something not right with that landing/roll out, they're fg retarded!
But I suspect the inbound FO volunteering to do the walkaround for the outbound crew, that they knew.
What's criminal is the fact that this pi..ant comes back and with a cool conscience tells the Captain that the a/c is ok?! WTF?
Maybe they are retarded, cause in the end they got on the outbound plane as a deadheading crew....
According to the report, the left main, as well as the nose gears were off the runway. How do you not feel that??
I'm not sure how the euro authorities handle things, but on the other side of the pond, these knuckleheads would have gotten an automatic violation for shooting an approach that was below applicable mins.
Whatever happened to screwing up and taking responsibility for it??
The behavior of the inbound crew was plain criminal! If these cats didn't realize that there was something not right with that landing/roll out, they're f
g retarded!But I suspect the inbound FO volunteering to do the walkaround for the outbound crew, that they knew.
What's criminal is the fact that this pi..ant comes back and with a cool conscience tells the Captain that the a/c is ok?! WTF?
Maybe they are retarded, cause in the end they got on the outbound plane as a deadheading crew....
According to the report, the left main, as well as the nose gears were off the runway. How do you not feel that??
I'm not sure how the euro authorities handle things, but on the other side of the pond, these knuckleheads would have gotten an automatic violation for shooting an approach that was below applicable mins.
Whatever happened to screwing up and taking responsibility for it??
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Whatever happened to screwing up and taking responsibility for it??
Nic
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Seems to be dying out... and not just in aviation - just look at the ones that put the economy into the crisis we are just getting over!
Nic
Ut Sementem Feeceris
This one is cut-n-dry in my opinion.
1. Continued approach below published minima.
2. Luckily the (blissfully unaware) passengers weren't harmed.
3. In essence the crew conspired to cover up their deed -
Both should have their licence/rating revoked. No room for cowboys in our work environment - I'm sure there are many more able and consciencious crew out there currently looking for work.
No bleeding heart boo hoos please. These guys are grade one idiots and should be grounded immediately.
A4
1. Continued approach below published minima.
2. Luckily the (blissfully unaware) passengers weren't harmed.
3. In essence the crew conspired to cover up their deed -
Both should have their licence/rating revoked. No room for cowboys in our work environment - I'm sure there are many more able and consciencious crew out there currently looking for work.
No bleeding heart boo hoos please. These guys are grade one idiots and should be grounded immediately.
A4
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I am not sure about the follow up of this event by the Polish authorities,
but Cyprus is in the EU and EASA should react immediately.
If these morons are not to be taken to responsibility, the airline should be.
Put them immediately on the black list!
but Cyprus is in the EU and EASA should react immediately.
If these morons are not to be taken to responsibility, the airline should be.
Put them immediately on the black list!
I've only made a few posts so I don't feel the need to order a Personal Title and help support PPRuNe
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I am not sure about the follow up of this event by the Polish authorities, but Cyprus is in the EU and EASA should react immediately.
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Nothing will happen to them.
Cypriots aviation community sticks together.
Most of them are somehow linked together trough family relations or other interests.. This includes the investigators!
Cypriots aviation community sticks together.
Most of them are somehow linked together trough family relations or other interests.. This includes the investigators!
Only this can stop this horror.
And regarding investigators, this is under Polish jurisdiction,
and I can assure you, will be handled properly.
So is Poland. Duh!
The report has been published, nobody is hiding anything,
I only wrote, that I don't know what is being undertaken,
which doesn't mean, that nothing is happening.
Normally in such cases any actions are taken on the basis of the final report,
and not preliminary.
I am sure this will be properly taken care of by the Polish authorities (and EASA).
This is just 30 days since the incident happened.
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Nothing will happen to them.
Cypriots aviation community sticks together.
Most of them are somehow linked together trough family relations or other interests.. This includes the investigators!
Cypriots aviation community sticks together.
Most of them are somehow linked together trough family relations or other interests.. This includes the investigators!
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Slightly better translation at: Aviation Herald:
Incident: Eurocypria B738 at Katowice on Nov 9th 2009, runway excursion on landing
Remembering "similar" Air Europe's incident two years ago, I still can't imagine why are these guys hoping to leave the scene undetected? Shame.
Incident: Eurocypria B738 at Katowice on Nov 9th 2009, runway excursion on landing
Remembering "similar" Air Europe's incident two years ago, I still can't imagine why are these guys hoping to leave the scene undetected? Shame.
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If the Polish CAA is to carry out this investigation it will last for at least 3 years. In 3 years the EuroCypria will say that was 3 years ago, today we operate much better.
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The most important thing with any incident is that no-one was hurt, regardless of the degree of culpability.
As for Eurcypria as an airline, I had the privilege of flying with them for two years 2006/7. I've flown with several airlines over the years in Europe, SE Asia, Australia and I found the ECA standard to be equal to the best.
No airline is imune to incidents and I certainly hope that Eurocypria as a whole doesn't get unfairly pilliored over this.
As for Eurcypria as an airline, I had the privilege of flying with them for two years 2006/7. I've flown with several airlines over the years in Europe, SE Asia, Australia and I found the ECA standard to be equal to the best.
No airline is imune to incidents and I certainly hope that Eurocypria as a whole doesn't get unfairly pilliored over this.
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So as far as a very Experienced rocket scientist,JUDGE, fighter pilot,AIB investigator etc etc Mr Ptkay has decided that the crew should be fired and the airline put on the black list!!!
So what do you recommend we should do to Air France?They lost two a/c in the last 3 years.What about BA?? They lost one in London last year.
We are all waiting for your judgment.
I'm not sure what exactly happened and what was going through the mind of the crew but until the investigation is over i guess the only thing the airline can do is suspend them.
In my aviation career i learnt to never point a finger at someone. There are those who screwed up and those who will at some point. And that goes from the most minor to the most major incident.
I remind you of the top KLM Captain who many years ago was involved in the biggest aviation accident in Teneriffe. He was the first the airline called so he could help in the investigation only to find out that he was actually involved in it.
What i am trying to say is that it can happen to the best of us and that is something we should all keep in mind.
Safe flying !!
So what do you recommend we should do to Air France?They lost two a/c in the last 3 years.What about BA?? They lost one in London last year.
We are all waiting for your judgment.
I'm not sure what exactly happened and what was going through the mind of the crew but until the investigation is over i guess the only thing the airline can do is suspend them.
In my aviation career i learnt to never point a finger at someone. There are those who screwed up and those who will at some point. And that goes from the most minor to the most major incident.
I remind you of the top KLM Captain who many years ago was involved in the biggest aviation accident in Teneriffe. He was the first the airline called so he could help in the investigation only to find out that he was actually involved in it.
What i am trying to say is that it can happen to the best of us and that is something we should all keep in mind.
Safe flying !!
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Dear Tcas1,
I appreciate your sense of humour.
But I kindly remind you, that it is not the case "sh#t happens",
bit a cover up story following a landing in breach of all rules.
Those rules were written exactly to avoid such incidents or accidents.
Breaking them is criminal.
In the process of cover up the CPT and FO put their colegues
on the flight EPKT to EPWA at risk, not mentoning the plane
and pax (if there were any on board.)
As others mentioned above it is a mater of the "new culture" in the
aviation, when landing below the minima is becoming a rule,
pilots doing a go around or diverting are being put under pressure
not to do so again...
This time there were just 2 lamps and a few tires.
Do you suggest we should look away again and wait until something
more serious happens???
Many happy landings (below minima)
Truly yours
PTKay
I appreciate your sense of humour.
But I kindly remind you, that it is not the case "sh#t happens",
bit a cover up story following a landing in breach of all rules.
Those rules were written exactly to avoid such incidents or accidents.
Breaking them is criminal.
In the process of cover up the CPT and FO put their colegues
on the flight EPKT to EPWA at risk, not mentoning the plane
and pax (if there were any on board.)
As others mentioned above it is a mater of the "new culture" in the
aviation, when landing below the minima is becoming a rule,
pilots doing a go around or diverting are being put under pressure
not to do so again...
This time there were just 2 lamps and a few tires.
Do you suggest we should look away again and wait until something
more serious happens???
Many happy landings (below minima)
Truly yours
PTKay
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Never flown for 'lines', but I do my outside check myself, if not avoidable my F/O on duty does it. Can you delegate that to a guy technically not on duty?
If all legal arguments are not worthwhile considering them, the attempt to put the blame in the shoes of the following crew is just...just...unbelievable low morale. As the follow on captain I´d kick the s... out of them for trying to blame me. How low can it get?
If all legal arguments are not worthwhile considering them, the attempt to put the blame in the shoes of the following crew is just...just...unbelievable low morale. As the follow on captain I´d kick the s... out of them for trying to blame me. How low can it get?
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Yes dear Ptkay.
You could be right. Breaking those rules might make somebody a criminal, but nothing makes you the prosecutor, the judge, and the executor all at the same time!!!!
I wonder, have you ever done a CRM course? Did anybody ever teach you that specially as a pilot you shouldn't jump into conclusions right away? Did you ever hear the phrase "assumption is the mother of all fu*k-ups?" (probably assumption was a contributing factor into this f*ck-up as well). Please give some credit to the rest of the common mortals!!
Coming back to the subject, I am sure there's more to it than what it seems, as is the case in every serious incident / accident. As far as I can tell, nobody here suggested that we should look away (again??? you mention??) until something more serious happen, so why do you jump immediately into that?
No case is black or white. If the crew mis-behaved in any way, I am sure that there are professional people out there that will do their job properly.
You could be right. Breaking those rules might make somebody a criminal, but nothing makes you the prosecutor, the judge, and the executor all at the same time!!!!
I wonder, have you ever done a CRM course? Did anybody ever teach you that specially as a pilot you shouldn't jump into conclusions right away? Did you ever hear the phrase "assumption is the mother of all fu*k-ups?" (probably assumption was a contributing factor into this f*ck-up as well). Please give some credit to the rest of the common mortals!!
Coming back to the subject, I am sure there's more to it than what it seems, as is the case in every serious incident / accident. As far as I can tell, nobody here suggested that we should look away (again??? you mention??) until something more serious happen, so why do you jump immediately into that?
No case is black or white. If the crew mis-behaved in any way, I am sure that there are professional people out there that will do their job properly.
Last edited by TheBat; 12th Dec 2018 at 15:47.
