FAA withdraws flightcrew duty, rest NPRM
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FAA withdraws flightcrew duty, rest NPRM
FAA withdraws flightcrew duty, rest NPRM | Pilotbug
The FAA issued a withdrawal of its 1995 Notice of Published Rulemaking (NPRM) on establishing rest, duty and flight time limitation of flight crewmembers. In that document, the FAA stated the NPRM had become outdated and because it raised so many issues that the FAA needed to address it decided to that new proposal will follow. Long before and in the 14 years since, the rest, duty and flighttime requirements have been studied continually and proposal after proposal have been put out there and nothing has come from it. The February crash of Colgan 3407 in Buffalo, NY was just the last of the so-called “clarion call” regarding what to do about tired pilots. It is simply unbelievable that a NPRM has languished for nearly a decade and a half without any final rule on duty and rest.
The FAA issued a withdrawal of its 1995 Notice of Published Rulemaking (NPRM) on establishing rest, duty and flight time limitation of flight crewmembers. In that document, the FAA stated the NPRM had become outdated and because it raised so many issues that the FAA needed to address it decided to that new proposal will follow. Long before and in the 14 years since, the rest, duty and flighttime requirements have been studied continually and proposal after proposal have been put out there and nothing has come from it. The February crash of Colgan 3407 in Buffalo, NY was just the last of the so-called “clarion call” regarding what to do about tired pilots. It is simply unbelievable that a NPRM has languished for nearly a decade and a half without any final rule on duty and rest.
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These day's there is no time for a run nor swim, no time for sleep, just confinement inside that tiny cockpit. The job is no longer a healthy occupation. (Years ago a pilot had free time to run & swim even while on an airline trip.)
The problem is...commuting.
ALL pilots should absolutely be required to live at the location of their assigned primary duty station...period.
No excuses.
Then, plenty of time for off-duty rest.
Sadly, pilots are their own worst enemy, in this regard.
Airline managements need to crack down on this commuting nonsense, pronto.
Pilots...don't like it...pack your bags and leave, and don't let the HR door slap you on the behind, on the way out.
Plenty of recruits in todays marketplace to take your place, make no mistake.
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411A, unfortunately there is no one size fits all solution to this.
For example, there are some airline bases, that even if you paid me millions, I still wouldn't want to live there!
...and on and on and on...
For example, there are some airline bases, that even if you paid me millions, I still wouldn't want to live there!
...and on and on and on...
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411A
Step away from the bottle...what a blockhead statement...most individuals would rather live in/near their base...many started out that way, until their airlines closed that crew base. Commuting the last 19 years was not my idea...but those are cards that were dealt. Want to count how many pilot crew bases have closed the last 20 years...your head would spin if you chased after every desirable base.
Step away from the bottle...what a blockhead statement...most individuals would rather live in/near their base...many started out that way, until their airlines closed that crew base. Commuting the last 19 years was not my idea...but those are cards that were dealt. Want to count how many pilot crew bases have closed the last 20 years...your head would spin if you chased after every desirable base.
The F/O in the Coglan crash couldn't afford to live at her base. There are a lot of factors as to why pilots commute and in this case, inadequate remuneration plays a part.
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The F/O in the Colgan crash probably couldn't afford to live at any base- she was living with her folks in SEA, I believe, and based in where, JFK? That's insane...
I'll make a prediction here, the FAA will do f
-all on this issue.
I'll make a prediction here, the FAA will do f
-all on this issue.
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... inadequate remuneration plays a part.
This needs to change, pronto.
And, until this situation changes, especially for the regional airline pilots in the USA, expect continued problems.
I have commuted for the last 19 years. The hub my Airline fly's out of has some of the most expensive real estate in the world and a commensurate cost of living.
No salary adjustment is made for this and yet there is one in one of our much smaller hubs in the Pacific. For myself on a single income it is prohibitively expensive.
As far as commuting and fatigue are concerned, not a factor for me, flying almost exclusively long haul with evening departures I take the first flight up from home in the morning, on arrival I have lunch then take a long snooze in our rest area all afternoon showing up well rested for departure.
Unlike many of our locally living Pilots who often show up tired after battling rush hour traffic and or dealing with issues at home all day.
In fact I don't know any of our commuting Pilots who are not equally conscientous.
411a, as usual, in matters other than the L1011 has it completely wrong.
No salary adjustment is made for this and yet there is one in one of our much smaller hubs in the Pacific. For myself on a single income it is prohibitively expensive.
As far as commuting and fatigue are concerned, not a factor for me, flying almost exclusively long haul with evening departures I take the first flight up from home in the morning, on arrival I have lunch then take a long snooze in our rest area all afternoon showing up well rested for departure.
Unlike many of our locally living Pilots who often show up tired after battling rush hour traffic and or dealing with issues at home all day.
In fact I don't know any of our commuting Pilots who are not equally conscientous.
411a, as usual, in matters other than the L1011 has it completely wrong.
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411,
In the current state of the industry few pilots have the chanve to live in base. For example, there is a large contingent of Continental pilots who live in Denver having moved there when CAL has a base there. Now its closed, has been for a while now. Do you expect all of those pilots to uproot their families, sell their houses etc, to follow the airline's business plan? Perhaps YOU do, but it simply isn't practical. Now let's look at the regionals. These airlines, and I worked for one for almost 10 years, open and close bases sometimes yearly. How could anyone move an entire family to follow this pattern? The only way is to find a place that you like with lots of flight to wherever you might be based. There is one more issue. There is no way to support an entire family on a regional pilot's pay in the NY/NJ/CT area. I know, I lived it. The airlines, not the pilots, created the commuting situation.
In the current state of the industry few pilots have the chanve to live in base. For example, there is a large contingent of Continental pilots who live in Denver having moved there when CAL has a base there. Now its closed, has been for a while now. Do you expect all of those pilots to uproot their families, sell their houses etc, to follow the airline's business plan? Perhaps YOU do, but it simply isn't practical. Now let's look at the regionals. These airlines, and I worked for one for almost 10 years, open and close bases sometimes yearly. How could anyone move an entire family to follow this pattern? The only way is to find a place that you like with lots of flight to wherever you might be based. There is one more issue. There is no way to support an entire family on a regional pilot's pay in the NY/NJ/CT area. I know, I lived it. The airlines, not the pilots, created the commuting situation.
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Why you guys feel the urgent need to jump up and shout vociferously at 411A's barbs is beyond me! 
Can you not see he is having a little fun at your expense?
The real issue is not commuting time nor, as 411A generously suggests, compensation, its simply that duty time is not calculated as duty done and you could have many additional hours of real WORK before you even touch a joystick or yoke - and afterwards. Tons of paperwork to do (not to mention the infamous Northwest rostering system that consumed them on their laptops).
Can you not see he is having a little fun at your expense?The real issue is not commuting time nor, as 411A generously suggests, compensation, its simply that duty time is not calculated as duty done and you could have many additional hours of real WORK before you even touch a joystick or yoke - and afterwards. Tons of paperwork to do (not to mention the infamous Northwest rostering system that consumed them on their laptops).
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"(not to mention the infamous Northwest rostering system that consumed them on their laptops)."
Actually NWA has one of the best computer rostering systems of all the airlines. It was the antiquated Delta system that they were trying to learn along with a new, complicated Delta medical plan selection that had a time constraint.
Actually NWA has one of the best computer rostering systems of all the airlines. It was the antiquated Delta system that they were trying to learn along with a new, complicated Delta medical plan selection that had a time constraint.
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That's right, a big part of the problem is commuting. But you omit the salient factor; why pilots commute. Junior regional pilots, making peanuts, are often assigned to hubs like NYC, BOS, and other large cities where costs of living far exceed what is possible on their paychecks. So, they commute. So do pilots who are upgrading to a higher paying seat or airplane, for liveable schedules,due to bumpbacks or furloughs, or to keep their families settled in community life and schools among friends, ,etc. etc.
If the airline and the FAA prevails, maybe the airlines should be forced to build company accommodation in, say, NYC, perhaps renting parts of a building at market rates to others, or to pay huge cost of living differentials for pilots forced to live in such places.
Fat chance of that!
To avoid hotel bills for overnighting crews, many regionals base pilots at outstations where the planes overnight. This often puts strains on pilots and families when the airline pulls out of a small town where the pilot has settled, or puts a different aircraft on the route.
The recent publicity about the "RV parking lot" at LAX reserved for a large contingent of pilots, who live in caravans on the hot,treeless macadam, revealed many are senior captains, who choose that Spartan lifestyle above moving to Los Angeles from their homes far way, or paying usurious big city hotel costs to come in the day before their trips.
Crash pads aren't the answer. Ask those who've been there, done that.
I worked for a crappy little commuter airline in upstate Utica, New York, a depressing "rust belt" city, in dire economic straits. The cheapskate owner protested he didn't want allow jumpseat agreements for his crews. "Why
should I let my pilots ride free? Screw 'em. Let 'em live in Utica."
The chief pilot set him straight: "If you don't let them commute, you won't have any pilots." The skinflint relented. A good majority of his crews were commuters.
Your satirical post is not a joke. Thousands of pilots are trying to resolve this problem, with little success.
If the airline and the FAA prevails, maybe the airlines should be forced to build company accommodation in, say, NYC, perhaps renting parts of a building at market rates to others, or to pay huge cost of living differentials for pilots forced to live in such places.
Fat chance of that!
To avoid hotel bills for overnighting crews, many regionals base pilots at outstations where the planes overnight. This often puts strains on pilots and families when the airline pulls out of a small town where the pilot has settled, or puts a different aircraft on the route.
The recent publicity about the "RV parking lot" at LAX reserved for a large contingent of pilots, who live in caravans on the hot,treeless macadam, revealed many are senior captains, who choose that Spartan lifestyle above moving to Los Angeles from their homes far way, or paying usurious big city hotel costs to come in the day before their trips.
Crash pads aren't the answer. Ask those who've been there, done that.
I worked for a crappy little commuter airline in upstate Utica, New York, a depressing "rust belt" city, in dire economic straits. The cheapskate owner protested he didn't want allow jumpseat agreements for his crews. "Why
should I let my pilots ride free? Screw 'em. Let 'em live in Utica."
The chief pilot set him straight: "If you don't let them commute, you won't have any pilots." The skinflint relented. A good majority of his crews were commuters.
Your satirical post is not a joke. Thousands of pilots are trying to resolve this problem, with little success.
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Labour action? Grow a pair or get out of the business. Aviation is not a family oriented business and will not be in the future unless the employees decide to change it.
Commuter pilots having fly out of large uban cities, sing me a song. Take it, leave it or change it.
One poster whined about the RV city in L.A. Hell I had to pay my rent to park my R.V. When times were tough and I decided to bring my family along with me as opposed to leaving them at home with a paychech as a substitute for a husband...
Commuter pilots having fly out of large uban cities, sing me a song. Take it, leave it or change it.
One poster whined about the RV city in L.A. Hell I had to pay my rent to park my R.V. When times were tough and I decided to bring my family along with me as opposed to leaving them at home with a paychech as a substitute for a husband...
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take a long snooze in our rest area all afternoon showing up well rested for departure.
Stilton,
Help me out here. Is this "rest area" the same as the crew lounge which was brought up in the Colgan accident? According to reports, Colgan has a policy forbidding crews from resting in the crew lounge. So is this something different your airline is doing?
Alt3.
Stilton,
Help me out here. Is this "rest area" the same as the crew lounge which was brought up in the Colgan accident? According to reports, Colgan has a policy forbidding crews from resting in the crew lounge. So is this something different your airline is doing?
Alt3.
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most individuals would rather live in/near their base...many started out that way, until their airlines closed that crew base.
Do you really believe that this is not a fact of life in other industries?
Are you really that poorly informed?
Like it or not, the airline industry is a transient one...like it or say goodbye..
Oh...cry me a river...the company doesn't care... boo hoo
What else is new?
Happy to help you out alouette3.
We have a dedicated crew rest area that is kept dark and quiet. It can be used by any crewmember 24 hours a day.
I am not sure why you would mention inadequate rest facilities at a commuter Airline and assume it is the same industrywide.
We have a dedicated crew rest area that is kept dark and quiet. It can be used by any crewmember 24 hours a day.
I am not sure why you would mention inadequate rest facilities at a commuter Airline and assume it is the same industrywide.
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Thread creep...
some have been good, some carp. Good gen on L1011 ops, a fair amount contentious. we are left in no doubt , though. Can't complain about that.
some have been good, some carp. Good gen on L1011 ops, a fair amount contentious. we are left in no doubt , though. Can't complain about that.