USA House passes aviation safety bill
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USA House passes aviation safety bill
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I think this is a step in the right direction. As long as its enforced , the intention is right. It will be great to see the salaries go up as a result and hopefully will create a "shortage" and most importantly it could indeed improve safety. However ,remembering the gap between 200 hrs and 1500 hrs . How do wannabees now bridge the experience gap ?
They cant all be instructors , allthough creativity and capatilism will in itself resolve this problem. I foresee a lot more jobs created all around. MOre bush flying in Alaska , More GA jobs being created ( albeit at a very low wage). But it could have a very positive effect on the Industry.
Lets wait and see.
I think Governments need to realise the huge responsibilty they have to the genereal public and the industry as a whole. Knowing that the bottom line of airlines is Economically and not safety driven. They all cut corners to save on their bottom line. Another example is the current fuel policies around the world. Allowing airlines to operate on fumes all in the name of enviromental green issues when in fact its all about saving $. Is this really in the better interest of the flying public ? Why allow 3% contingency , commit to destination etc etc. Is it really safe in the big scheme of things.
Well time will tell. Safe flying and good luck to all the wannabees in the USA.
They cant all be instructors , allthough creativity and capatilism will in itself resolve this problem. I foresee a lot more jobs created all around. MOre bush flying in Alaska , More GA jobs being created ( albeit at a very low wage). But it could have a very positive effect on the Industry.
Lets wait and see.
I think Governments need to realise the huge responsibilty they have to the genereal public and the industry as a whole. Knowing that the bottom line of airlines is Economically and not safety driven. They all cut corners to save on their bottom line. Another example is the current fuel policies around the world. Allowing airlines to operate on fumes all in the name of enviromental green issues when in fact its all about saving $. Is this really in the better interest of the flying public ? Why allow 3% contingency , commit to destination etc etc. Is it really safe in the big scheme of things.
Well time will tell. Safe flying and good luck to all the wannabees in the USA.
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The bill, which was approved 409-11, would require all pilots that fly for a passenger-carrying airline to have an Air Transport Pilot certificate, effectively raising the number of flying hours an entry-level airline pilot must have from the current 250 hours to 1,500 hours.
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Thank you for one bit of good news. Airline pilots will now have 1500 hrs to qualify. The New York State accident probably wouldn't have happened if the law applied then. Both of those pilots were underqualified when they got hired. Eventually you gain experience and can be qualified but it should not be with passengers in back.
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p51guy, do u know what u r talking about??? When the Buffalo plane crashed, the captain at like 5-6000 hours and the FO had 2-3000, even according to the new bill, those 2 pilots would have been qualified to fly that flight and guess what, they would still have crashed the plane...becoz the cause of accidents was pilot errors caused by pilot fatigue. They need to pass a bill on duty hours and work rules, not minimum required hours on flying passenger carrying airline.
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jowong1
agree with you but this is a start to untangle a little of the mess we are in.
Flying can be a lifelong apprenticeship. 10,000 hr Captains can keep learning whilst wannabees should be given the opportunity to fly hands on and learn from any mistakes made before in smaller kites before they fly at 450 TAS with 200 souls on board.
agree with you but this is a start to untangle a little of the mess we are in.
Flying can be a lifelong apprenticeship. 10,000 hr Captains can keep learning whilst wannabees should be given the opportunity to fly hands on and learn from any mistakes made before in smaller kites before they fly at 450 TAS with 200 souls on board.
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I don't see this as having anything to do with being qualified, 1500 hours or not. The pilots were chronically fatigued and sick. Financial pressures made them unable to take a sicky or get a good nights sleep beforehand.
Seems the U.S. once again started attacking the wrong end of the issue. 
Doing something about ridiculous commuting, fatigue and lack of (for the pilots) affordable rest facilities and not least income would have made sense.
But at the end of the day, this is about politicians being able to say: We did something!
Doing something about ridiculous commuting, fatigue and lack of (for the pilots) affordable rest facilities and not least income would have made sense.
But at the end of the day, this is about politicians being able to say: We did something!
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Just because you have 1500hrs does not make you 'experienced' It is alot easier to train a 200hr cadet out of a flight school than it is a 1500-2000hr pilot who has flown GA. Its not the hours but the QUALITY of training. Maybe time to make the FAA make a fast track program for students to go from zero to hero like they do in Europe with alot of tough hurdles to jump through so only the best get through. just my two cents, where's my glass of vino.....
RedNex Horse Hooey!
they Gotta know airmanship first when you deal with that many lives to put it bluntly--gotta grow some B*lls first [ladies require a hairy chest]!!!
yes, it is true that 1500 hrs is NOT a magical figure but I know lots of descent instructors that if trained properly they'd make excellent airline pilots even though 'airline stuff' is far from their general perspective they have the spirit--and it would be nice if folks learning how to fly were not so bloody passive
and if regionals didn't pick cadidates for their ass kissing abilties but rather their flying abiliities --plus it would give us aviators some more respect as a race--- no!?
this ruling is just a start---we need to stop breeding sissies for the air period!
PA
they Gotta know airmanship first when you deal with that many lives to put it bluntly--gotta grow some B*lls first [ladies require a hairy chest]!!!
yes, it is true that 1500 hrs is NOT a magical figure but I know lots of descent instructors that if trained properly they'd make excellent airline pilots even though 'airline stuff' is far from their general perspective they have the spirit--and it would be nice if folks learning how to fly were not so bloody passive
and if regionals didn't pick cadidates for their ass kissing abilties but rather their flying abiliities --plus it would give us aviators some more respect as a race--- no!?this ruling is just a start---we need to stop breeding sissies for the air period!
PA
oh yeah I never did feel all that much love and affections for part 141 schools either
a paper lion they can be
A bunch of arrogant smirking Cadet trained by robots
Lester
a paper lion they can be
A bunch of arrogant smirking Cadet trained by robots
Lester
Last edited by Pugilistic Animus; 15th Oct 2009 at 23:09. Reason: add more venom
Doing something about ridiculous commuting, fatigue and lack of (for the pilots) affordable rest facilities and not least income would have made sense.
GovTrack: H.R. 3371: Text of Legislation, Engrossed in House
SEC. 17. PILOT FATIGUE.
(a) Flight and Duty Time Regulations-
(1) IN GENERAL- In accordance with paragraph (3), the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration shall issue regulations, based on the best available scientific information--
(A) to specify limitations on the hours of flight and duty time allowed for pilots to address problems relating to pilot fatigue; and
(B) to require part 121 air carriers to develop and implement fatigue risk management plans.
(2) MATTERS TO BE ADDRESSED- In conducting the rulemaking proceeding under this subsection, the Administrator shall consider and review the following:
(A) Time of day of flights in a duty period.
(B) Number of takeoff and landings in a duty period.
(C) Number of time zones crossed in a duty period.
(D) The impact of functioning in multiple time zones or on different daily schedules.
(E) Research conducted on fatigue, sleep, and circadian rhythms.
(F) Sleep and rest requirements recommended by the National Transportation Safety Board and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.
(G) International standards regarding flight schedules and duty periods.
(H) Alternative procedures to facilitate alertness in the cockpit.
(I) Scheduling and attendance policies and practices, including sick leave.
(J) The effects of commuting, the means of commuting, and the length of the commute.
(K) Medical screening and treatment.
(L) Rest environments.
(M) Any other matters the Administrator considers appropriate.
Having watched a whole bunch of pilots in my day, I really don't think it is the time that makes the pilot, but how it's spent. I do feel this is a step forward, time will tell.
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I always remember that, in the military, the 1000-1500 hour zone was, statistically, the most dangerous.
Purely as the pilot had enough hours to think themselves experienced but not enough experience to get themselves out of the dodgy situations their false bravado got themselves into.
Statistically the 'bulge' in accidents fell between those hour markers.
Good to see we learn from our mistakes!
Purely as the pilot had enough hours to think themselves experienced but not enough experience to get themselves out of the dodgy situations their false bravado got themselves into.
Statistically the 'bulge' in accidents fell between those hour markers.
Good to see we learn from our mistakes!
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Forgive my ignorance, may be the the same bill. Just signed a letter requesting that foreign MRO's require the same expectant requirements to perform maintenance on on "N" registered aircraft. Regulation to the percentage of FAA qualified supervision and drug testing etc...
International oversight is a known loophole, not to say that domestic MRO's do not fault and require more supervision, but it is in my experience that many foreign chop shops that save airlines money do so with a profit over product mindset that is not regulated as it should be.
International oversight is a known loophole, not to say that domestic MRO's do not fault and require more supervision, but it is in my experience that many foreign chop shops that save airlines money do so with a profit over product mindset that is not regulated as it should be.
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The airline I went to work for required 4,000 hrs and 1,000 jet. I felt very fortunate to get hired. 1500 hrs is not a lot of experience but much better than 250 hrs. Sully is right about the starting pilots not having enough experience because the commuters won't pay enough to attract qualified people.
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as posted by Jwong1
...those 2 pilots would have been qualified to fly that flight and guess what, they would still have crashed the plane...becoz the cause of accidents was pilot errors caused by pilot fatigue.
...those 2 pilots would have been qualified to fly that flight and guess what, they would still have crashed the plane...becoz the cause of accidents was pilot errors caused by pilot fatigue.
