A380 engine failure (SQ)
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no customs and/or immigration hiccups
Can you imagine the treatment of a Pax travelling on an Israeli passport would receive from any Arab immigration officer?
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A380 Engine Nacelle
Perhaps someone here could put me right - I am told that an engine change on the A380 would take around 12-15 hours but is then followed by 3 days or so for the nacelle fixing to 'cure' - can this be true?
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followed by 3 days or so for the nacelle fixing to 'cure' - can this be true?
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Am I being a bit naive here - why didn't the plane just carry on with 3 engines until it got to SG ? Today 01:53
The crew would certainly have contacted Singapore and that will be where the decision came from. Send it back to Paris where there are other crew, possibility of other company A380 in the region etc. etc. also get the passengers off to London, Amsterdam, Frankfurt etc. to continue to Singapore on other SIA services, the list is endless.
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It was in all probability,an executive decision made by the company and not the pilot(s).
the PIC ... took this decision in about 20 minutes...
Undoubtedly the right decision in my mind at least. Hadn't even considered the immigration issue but other logistics alone, getting beds for all those passengers at home base vs down the line, the maintenance/spares/replacement aircraft positioning, ugh.
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OK, can I push the politics aside for a mo..... Maybe a bit more important to our community is what the actual problem was, ie did the engine fail, or was it shut down due to a small problem etc
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Return to CDG
As a now retired Flight Engineer I am still amazed at some of the thoughts expressed on this forum. Sure, the loss of a single engine on a four engined heavy jet is not, of itself, the sole reason for a return rather than continuing on three. The first and most compelling thought of the Captain is, or should be, the safety of his aircraft and its occupants. Full Stop. If satisfied that there is not a safety issue then, and only then, will the Captain determine his alternatives. A myriad of reasons for returning to CDG probably existed. One thing you should all be sure of is that the Captain would not have returned to CDG unless he was sure it was the most appropriate course of action. To suggest otherwise shows a lack of respect for the Captain and his company.
Old Fella I concur entirely. My curiosity was aroused as to why nearly 3 hours out from Paris, that was decided to be the best place to divert to. The likely reasons have been disclosed and I appreciate the answers to my questions.
My only reservation (call it irritation / frustration / whatever) as a pax would be that if I was on my way to Singapore from Paris and provided it was safe, I would rather end up nearer there (any thus having a shorter overall journey time) than back where I started 6 hours after I set off and with the prospect of being a minimum of a day late at my destination.
I note (from an earlier post) that a new Trent is being shipped from Singapore and presumably the aircraft is still tech in CDG so it was clearly nothing trivial. Any ideas what exactly ?
My only reservation (call it irritation / frustration / whatever) as a pax would be that if I was on my way to Singapore from Paris and provided it was safe, I would rather end up nearer there (any thus having a shorter overall journey time) than back where I started 6 hours after I set off and with the prospect of being a minimum of a day late at my destination.
I note (from an earlier post) that a new Trent is being shipped from Singapore and presumably the aircraft is still tech in CDG so it was clearly nothing trivial. Any ideas what exactly ?
Last edited by Dave Gittins; 30th Sep 2009 at 04:32.
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There are only certain specified airfields that can accept an A380, CDG is one, and I imagine SQ have their engineers there.
Big Airways decision to fly back from LAX on 3 was not universally endorsed.
Who will be the first to say that this would never have happened in a Boeing, and that the 747 never had a first engine failure?
Big Airways decision to fly back from LAX on 3 was not universally endorsed.
Who will be the first to say that this would never have happened in a Boeing, and that the 747 never had a first engine failure?
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Hasn't any one of you heard of 'contact company via datalink'....???!?
It was in all probability,an executive decision made by the company and not the pilot(s).
It was in all probability,an executive decision made by the company and not the pilot(s).
Your company can advise all they like but the decision on diversion airport is up to the Captain of the aircraft and if you hand off that responsibility to someone on the ground, then perhaps you should re-assess your position.
Eitherways 3/4 powerplants for the fat girl isn't a mayday or a 'land asap' situation.
Thanks for the feedback, guys - seems the issue of the manufacturer of the engines is likely one of the reasons for the choice of diversion airport. I have no doubt there was a lot of consultation going on and that a perfectly safe decision was made - by the captain.
Cheers...
Leewan
Iv'e been on the the LHR/SIN 380 every month since they started flying it and have yet to see any empty seats in the economy. Not only that it's very difficult to change flights due to the demand so not much evidence of a recession on that route.
Iv'e been on the the LHR/SIN 380 every month since they started flying it and have yet to see any empty seats in the economy. Not only that it's very difficult to change flights due to the demand so not much evidence of a recession on that route.
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Engage Brains chaps
The a/c was reported as just south of Krakow when the engine was shut down. This suggests to me that the route was over the former Russian republics and then Afghanistan, not very near Dubai or anywhere else in the middle east. Some of you may have noticed there are some very high mountains on this route called the Himalayas. So here we are happily cruising along, half asleep when the co-pilot shouts out "Captain, captain, the oil pressure is falling on another engine now, what are we going to do, I can see some white snow covered lumps ahead and we can't cross them on 2 engines because because we can't maintain MSA". "Don't worry son, we can always land in Kabul". A suitable diversion for an A380 or any other civilian a/c?
Old Fella,
Your whole post is spot on. Everybody else wind your neck in, it had nothing to do with you.
My immediate thoughts would be where do I go when the second engine fails, ( hautemaude
) much rather be over 'friendly' territory, with more available airfield options, than certain territory en route to Dubai, even if Dubai could change the engine. Burning fuel down to landing weight whilst still continuing towards ones' eventual destination would be the best economical choice - but are you more interested in economics than your safety ?
Ones' immediate problem when an engine fails, is not what height and speed can I maintain on 3, but what can I do on 2 ? ( apply that philosophy to a Boeing 777 and see where it gets you. ) And don't tell me it can't happen just because the statistics say it is unlikely. Why did the first one fail ? Statistics would say that that is highly unlikely, too.
I know little of the BA 747 3-eng LAX-LHR affair, so will keep my mouth shut, but first impressions suggest that it was an ill conceived decision, if Boeing wanted a 3-eng 747 they'd have designed one.
No Captain is ever going to be satisfied until he can reply to the Flt. Eng, telling him that No. 8 has failed, with the response ' which side ? "
ExSp33db1rd. ( ExCapta1n, too )
To suggest otherwise shows a lack of respect for the Captain and his company.
My immediate thoughts would be where do I go when the second engine fails, ( hautemaude
) much rather be over 'friendly' territory, with more available airfield options, than certain territory en route to Dubai, even if Dubai could change the engine. Burning fuel down to landing weight whilst still continuing towards ones' eventual destination would be the best economical choice - but are you more interested in economics than your safety ?Ones' immediate problem when an engine fails, is not what height and speed can I maintain on 3, but what can I do on 2 ? ( apply that philosophy to a Boeing 777 and see where it gets you. ) And don't tell me it can't happen just because the statistics say it is unlikely. Why did the first one fail ? Statistics would say that that is highly unlikely, too.
I know little of the BA 747 3-eng LAX-LHR affair, so will keep my mouth shut, but first impressions suggest that it was an ill conceived decision, if Boeing wanted a 3-eng 747 they'd have designed one.
No Captain is ever going to be satisfied until he can reply to the Flt. Eng, telling him that No. 8 has failed, with the response ' which side ? "
ExSp33db1rd. ( ExCapta1n, too )
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Originally Posted by hautemude
Some of you may have noticed there are some very high mountains on this route called the Himalayas. So here we are happily cruising along, half asleep when the co-pilot shouts out "Captain, captain, the oil pressure is falling on another engine now, what are we going to do, I can see some white snow covered lumps ahead and we can't cross them on 2 engines because because we can't maintain MSA"
I see now. I was under the impression only one engine had failed, not two.
Technically there is nothing to guarantee that all four engines won't stop at exactly the same time - why not ? Only statistically is it unlikely. but just in case ......... let's maximise our options. I'm going back. Except when I had an engine failure out of Muscat, and continued to Bahrain, which is at sea level and not surrounded by mountainous terrain at night,and incidentally where the spare engine was.
It would have taken me nearly as long to dump down to landing weight as the continued flight towards my destination, with the added advantage that I was proceeding towards less hostile terrain in case of another failure, and with Dubai, Sharjah, Abu Dhabi and Doha en route, continuing was a better option in that case than returning, and I burned off fuel en route to my final destination as well instead of dumping it, better conditions first, passenger convenience second - have you ever been to Muscat ? and economical benefits came along for the ride.
QED.