Jet Airways Pilots Strike
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Last I checked it was a collective effort.
Really? How is it then that your aircraft are on the ground and flights are being cancelled by the hundreds? Maybe a little 'collective effort" from the ticket sellers and the ground staff can get them flying again.
The losses any airline bears is generally due to poor management.Yet the guys upstairs never hesitate to ask for a paycut from the workers while giving themselves fat bonuses and great perks.
Is it just me or does'nt anybody see the big picture? It is not about the pay,it is not about expats it is all about two pilots getting fired because they wanted to start a union.Does that not raise any red flags to anybody? Wannabe, Apache, Agent 123? Are you guys that much afraid of your jobs that you are willing to trade your self respect to a corporation that is acting illegally?If Jet had wanted to avoid this all they had to do was to call those two guys in along with a bunch of senior pilots and worked to resolve the differences. But no, that would be a sign of weakness and bowing down to the labour. Never happen In India. So they chose to take the illegal route. Well, we have a saying here: what goes around comes around. Whichever way this issue is resolved Jet has lost a lot of money in the last week or so. Neither the airline nor it's pilots can recover that ever.All because Goyal and his hired guns (like you guys) refused to understand that the fear mongering from Jet is all part of Union busting.Enjoy the coming carnage, gentlemen---- and I use that word loosely. Anybody who calls a fellow professional on a public forum a moron is not a gentleman at all. No matter how much you disagree with each other.
For the record, I do not fly for Jet or any other airline in India.
Alt3.
Really? How is it then that your aircraft are on the ground and flights are being cancelled by the hundreds? Maybe a little 'collective effort" from the ticket sellers and the ground staff can get them flying again.
The losses any airline bears is generally due to poor management.Yet the guys upstairs never hesitate to ask for a paycut from the workers while giving themselves fat bonuses and great perks.
Is it just me or does'nt anybody see the big picture? It is not about the pay,it is not about expats it is all about two pilots getting fired because they wanted to start a union.Does that not raise any red flags to anybody? Wannabe, Apache, Agent 123? Are you guys that much afraid of your jobs that you are willing to trade your self respect to a corporation that is acting illegally?If Jet had wanted to avoid this all they had to do was to call those two guys in along with a bunch of senior pilots and worked to resolve the differences. But no, that would be a sign of weakness and bowing down to the labour. Never happen In India. So they chose to take the illegal route. Well, we have a saying here: what goes around comes around. Whichever way this issue is resolved Jet has lost a lot of money in the last week or so. Neither the airline nor it's pilots can recover that ever.All because Goyal and his hired guns (like you guys) refused to understand that the fear mongering from Jet is all part of Union busting.Enjoy the coming carnage, gentlemen---- and I use that word loosely. Anybody who calls a fellow professional on a public forum a moron is not a gentleman at all. No matter how much you disagree with each other.
For the record, I do not fly for Jet or any other airline in India.
Alt3.
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Jet Pilots stir poised to end
Mumbai, Sep 12 (PTI) The five-day-old stir by Jet Airways pilots that severely crippled the carrier's services neared an end tonight as the airline management and the agitators were understood to have worked out a settlement.
Indications of a resolution to the impasse between the two sides came after a marathon seven-hour meeting here during which it was agreed that the pilots sacked by the airline would be reinstated and the pilots would not challenge a review of registration of their union National Aviators Guild by the Registrar of Trade Unions.
The agitation, which saw almost 400 pilots affilated to NAG going on sick leave protesting dismissal of their colleagues and saw cancellation of 280 flights today, is expected to end soon with the pilots poised to resuming duty almost immediately.
Indications of a resolution to the impasse between the two sides came after a marathon seven-hour meeting here during which it was agreed that the pilots sacked by the airline would be reinstated and the pilots would not challenge a review of registration of their union National Aviators Guild by the Registrar of Trade Unions.
The agitation, which saw almost 400 pilots affilated to NAG going on sick leave protesting dismissal of their colleagues and saw cancellation of 280 flights today, is expected to end soon with the pilots poised to resuming duty almost immediately.
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Is it just me or does'nt anybody see the big picture?
And for the record I dont work for any airline in India, but run an affiliated business where such labor issues are all so common when a couple of politicians feed a few scraps and make them take good people down.
Either way the faracas has ended in a manner where the NAG has had it;s wings clipped. I suspect this is not the end and there will be a purge of trouble makers as any organization would do.
I still saw it is a collective effort, but you are free to gas up your plane, check in passengers and serve beverages anytime you want.
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If your office gets taken over by foreigners, what do you do? Captain Sam Thomas, joint secretary, National Aviators’ Guild (NAG), who was sacked by Jet Airways for forming a union of pilots, asks Sreelatha Menon (Business Standard).
Why didn’t you accept the offer by Jet Airways and go back to work?
The offer by the management had a condition that we should dissolve the NAG. They said if anyone filed a case against the NAG, we should not challenge it. This will lead to the dissolution of the body. We can’t accept that.
Pilots are highly paid, about Rs 600,000 a month, which makes people wonder why they should want to form a union or a guild. You are hardly workers in that sense.
If highly paid people are not workers and can’t form unions, the Constitution of India should mention it. We don’t cease to have the right to form unions just because we are highly paid. Tell me, if all journalists are paid Rs 600,000 a month and asked to do domestic work, would you not form a union and fight for your rights?
But why did you form a union now?
We had a good association for the last ten years. We also have the Society for Welfare of Indian Pilots. But the expatriate management from the Arab countries is not used to workers having any rights. They are used to Indians coming to their countries and working like slaves. The association and the management had several agreements on working conditions but the expatriate management is going back on most of them.
What is the proportion of expatriates in the management?
Our management is completely expatriate. Our CEO is from Australia, the COO is from Bahrain, two top officials are from Ireland, while another is from Australia.
What was the immediate provocation?
There were many provocations during the last two years. The latest was regarding our career progression and promotions. No promotions were happening and all our allowances were cut. We understood that it was because of the recession. But if you are cutting our allowances, you can’t hire foreigners at double salaries. The foreign management was making Indians wait indefinitely for promotions. If your office gets taken over by foreigners, what do you do? We want dignity and not money. Money can’t be a substitute for dignity.
Is that why you wanted a union now?
They said without a union, you did not have any rights. So, we said we would form a union. Now, they want it dissolved.
There is no question that we all have a right to form unions, there is no question that Mr.Naresh Goyal has a fetish for "expats" at the cost of locals....whether that is a deliberate management ploy to keep the ranks divided is debatable.
Earlier this ( i dont work for Jet )year our T's and C's were changed overnight with a simple email..that was it ...no meetings...no discussions...it was take it or leave it. The management took advantage of the "recessionary conditions" and did not deem it necessary to have any dialogue before such drastic changes were implemented and we swallowed the pill with the usual bitching during night stops and a half succesful attempt to form a welfare association.
We have nothing against expats , they bring a wealth of experience and expertise to a new fleet but they also know that they are here for a limited time. As and when we have enough local talent i.e trainers , its time they got upgraded instead of hiring more expats...that seems fair and logical to me.
And a warm welcome to all my "sick" friends...we missed you...
Why didn’t you accept the offer by Jet Airways and go back to work?
The offer by the management had a condition that we should dissolve the NAG. They said if anyone filed a case against the NAG, we should not challenge it. This will lead to the dissolution of the body. We can’t accept that.
Pilots are highly paid, about Rs 600,000 a month, which makes people wonder why they should want to form a union or a guild. You are hardly workers in that sense.
If highly paid people are not workers and can’t form unions, the Constitution of India should mention it. We don’t cease to have the right to form unions just because we are highly paid. Tell me, if all journalists are paid Rs 600,000 a month and asked to do domestic work, would you not form a union and fight for your rights?
But why did you form a union now?
We had a good association for the last ten years. We also have the Society for Welfare of Indian Pilots. But the expatriate management from the Arab countries is not used to workers having any rights. They are used to Indians coming to their countries and working like slaves. The association and the management had several agreements on working conditions but the expatriate management is going back on most of them.
What is the proportion of expatriates in the management?
Our management is completely expatriate. Our CEO is from Australia, the COO is from Bahrain, two top officials are from Ireland, while another is from Australia.
What was the immediate provocation?
There were many provocations during the last two years. The latest was regarding our career progression and promotions. No promotions were happening and all our allowances were cut. We understood that it was because of the recession. But if you are cutting our allowances, you can’t hire foreigners at double salaries. The foreign management was making Indians wait indefinitely for promotions. If your office gets taken over by foreigners, what do you do? We want dignity and not money. Money can’t be a substitute for dignity.
Is that why you wanted a union now?
They said without a union, you did not have any rights. So, we said we would form a union. Now, they want it dissolved.
There is no question that we all have a right to form unions, there is no question that Mr.Naresh Goyal has a fetish for "expats" at the cost of locals....whether that is a deliberate management ploy to keep the ranks divided is debatable.
Earlier this ( i dont work for Jet )year our T's and C's were changed overnight with a simple email..that was it ...no meetings...no discussions...it was take it or leave it. The management took advantage of the "recessionary conditions" and did not deem it necessary to have any dialogue before such drastic changes were implemented and we swallowed the pill with the usual bitching during night stops and a half succesful attempt to form a welfare association.
We have nothing against expats , they bring a wealth of experience and expertise to a new fleet but they also know that they are here for a limited time. As and when we have enough local talent i.e trainers , its time they got upgraded instead of hiring more expats...that seems fair and logical to me.
And a warm welcome to all my "sick" friends...we missed you...
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Stable smart management that knows what they are doing operationally, thinks in the long term, and understands the value of takeing care of their employees = long term success.
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Cost to Aviation Industry
1. Pilots are not managers
They operate machinery, they are like truck driver, train driver, crane operator, a big paycheck doesn't mean that one is a manager. Pilots are professionals, they need professional organisations, to represent themselves. Doctor's, lawyer's, engineers, truck driver, train drivers, they all have and need professional organisations to represent them and to participate in a meaningful way toward the economic activity.
2. Managers are not professionals..(IMHO)
I haven't heard of any professional body of managers, even though lately business schools have been using terms like ethical management, the field is mostly limited to managing ethics. There is a reason too, they will not like to form a union because they don't want to share information about their pay-checks with other managers. Union for managers is a big no no.
3. Naresh Goyal Not a Captain
Neither is Jet airways a ship or a plane. He in his position is not the highest discretionary authority like a captain of a ship (or airplane) is. He can exercise his judgement to perceive a threat to jet airways... once having done that his actions cannot be arbitrary and have to be in consonance with the law of the land (whatever it may be), and he is answerable. If you have ever flown even a single passenger, I hope you will agree. He is not the final authority.
4. The Hangover
You are talking of hangover as if it was a party, 62 years is a big number of course. Battle of Plassy was lost in 1757 the exploitation lasted 190 years. I don't know about others, but I am sure it was not a party, not for Indians at least. Lets come back to disrupting the 'capitalistic enterprise' theory. Capitalism works when on the basis of fairness and efficiency of markets. Amongst several other markets, one big market is labor market.
The labor market everywhere in the world is very asymmetric in terms of price determination. The labor needs the work. Or else he will not be able to maintain his living standard (a little bit higher for pilots, and for a reason, and not so higher for others, that too for a reason). Unions serve the role of determining this price and taking it to favor of labor rather than the capital. In a successful economy a proper balance between capital and labor is a must. As an economy reaches its potential capital earns less and less as compared to labor. This balance can only be brought forth by collective bargaining of unions.
If you just wanna know how the labor market works, go out an try to do a labor's job, try to get employed by jet airways, read the employment contract, see if you have any bargaining power, a manual labor and a pilot have almost the same bargaining power, none of them have any union, and both of them should.
Oh your employees need to form a union because you are economically exploiting them. Not your fault, because you in turn are being exploited too, may be you don't have an employer, but you still have other capital which is trying to bring down the price of your capital. Think holistic.
They operate machinery, they are like truck driver, train driver, crane operator, a big paycheck doesn't mean that one is a manager. Pilots are professionals, they need professional organisations, to represent themselves. Doctor's, lawyer's, engineers, truck driver, train drivers, they all have and need professional organisations to represent them and to participate in a meaningful way toward the economic activity.
2. Managers are not professionals..(IMHO)
I haven't heard of any professional body of managers, even though lately business schools have been using terms like ethical management, the field is mostly limited to managing ethics. There is a reason too, they will not like to form a union because they don't want to share information about their pay-checks with other managers. Union for managers is a big no no.
3. Naresh Goyal Not a Captain
Neither is Jet airways a ship or a plane. He in his position is not the highest discretionary authority like a captain of a ship (or airplane) is. He can exercise his judgement to perceive a threat to jet airways... once having done that his actions cannot be arbitrary and have to be in consonance with the law of the land (whatever it may be), and he is answerable. If you have ever flown even a single passenger, I hope you will agree. He is not the final authority.
4. The Hangover
Why wont we Indians get over our hangover from 62 years ago. For crying out loud most of this country was born way way after the Brits left, so I would beg to differ on this. As far as beggering a country it first starts by disrupting capatilistic enterprise and then goes on. Glad the Reds did not win anything this time around as they subscribe to such thought processes.
The labor market everywhere in the world is very asymmetric in terms of price determination. The labor needs the work. Or else he will not be able to maintain his living standard (a little bit higher for pilots, and for a reason, and not so higher for others, that too for a reason). Unions serve the role of determining this price and taking it to favor of labor rather than the capital. In a successful economy a proper balance between capital and labor is a must. As an economy reaches its potential capital earns less and less as compared to labor. This balance can only be brought forth by collective bargaining of unions.
If you just wanna know how the labor market works, go out an try to do a labor's job, try to get employed by jet airways, read the employment contract, see if you have any bargaining power, a manual labor and a pilot have almost the same bargaining power, none of them have any union, and both of them should.
Oh your employees need to form a union because you are economically exploiting them. Not your fault, because you in turn are being exploited too, may be you don't have an employer, but you still have other capital which is trying to bring down the price of your capital. Think holistic.
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What exactly was the amicable settlement that was agreed upon other than the reinstatement of the pilots and setting up of a grievance committee? I hear the pilots still face contempt of court charges.
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It's sad that expats are trying to rationalize qualified Indian pilots getting bypassed for promotion and making a fraction as much in their own country. This would never be allowed in a Western country. You guys had a good thing, now it's time to move on to the next thing.
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It's sad that expats are trying to rationalize qualified Indian pilots getting bypassed for promotion and making a fraction as much in their own country. This would never be allowed in a Western country. You guys had a good thing, now it's time to move on to the next thing.
Few bad apples are spoiling the entire juice, expat or not.
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levy the fine
India should levy a fine the Jet pilots too.. They have caused the public to be looted flight attendants and ground staff not to get their hourly pay, all for what- already have a high salary and management job as a pilot- why make the company already running at a loss suffer. Shame on them. I am shocked that so many pilots striked, this will be bad for one of our country's largest airline, in the west Jet is also a flag carrier for India. I was proud of Jet. Hats off to all those who didn't strike, you are the true heroes. I hope these striking pilots have not ruined Jet for good.
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it is not uncommon for expats the other way around
In 2000, the world's two largest airlines, United and US Airways in USA were run by Indians in the CEO/President level and also Air France in Europe.. this is not different than what is happening here, they are merely finding the best candidate for the job (or at least I would hope they are). There are thousands of Indian pilots outside of India, come join them, don't bring down an airline already in such trouble like Jet, it's just not right, it's selfish at the salary levels given and job comfort and security given. Jet is actually a lot better than the others I have seen, see what you have first in comparison before doing all this nonsense stuff to hassle others and the public and financially trying to ruin a company. Its almost feels like the striking pilots are paid by the competitor airlines to do this.
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India should levy a fine the Jet pilots too.. They have caused the public to be looted flight attendants and ground staff not to get their hourly pay, all for what- already have a high salary and management job as a pilot- why make the company already running at a loss suffer. Shame on them. I am shocked that so many pilots striked, this will be bad for one of our country's largest airline, in the west Jet is also a flag carrier for India. I was proud of Jet. Hats off to all those who didn't strike, you are the true heroes. I hope these striking pilots have not ruined Jet for good.
1. Please explain how the public got looted.
2. High salary, comes after high investment.
3. Pilot job is not a management job, its a blue collar job.
4. Every strike has a reason, and management has a role in strike too, why
blame only the pilots.
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1. Please explain how the public got looted.
2. High salary, comes after high investment.
3. Pilot job is not a management job, its a blue collar job.
So therefore there is a disconnect in high salary vs hourly wage. Maybe a high hourly wage for pilots are in the making? Having a cake and eating is a possibility if it is shared and on a 2 way street. One cannot duck responsibility where it suits.
4. Every strike has a reason, and management has a role in strike too, why
blame only the pilots.
blame only the pilots.
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Pilots should have given the mandatory 14 days notice. Might have earned them some public respect
Jet pilots to go on strike from Sept 7 midnight- Hindustan Times
Jet pilots to go on strike from Sep 7
as defined by Wikki.
Next time try wearing a black band or something so the issue is restricted between pilots and the management
