Jet Airways Pilots Strike
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Things are more complicated than they seem.
Unless you've spent time working with Jet or at least for an airline in India there are a lot of nuances to the management/pilots relationship there that you'll be missing. This situation is certainly nowhere near as simple or obvious as either party wishes to portray it.
It's true that the company has changed things such as the rules of progression on the Indian pilot group several times without sufficient mutual negotiation. However, it's also true that a goodly number of the pilot group routinely take individual actions that would be firing offences in most airlines elsewhere but that go undisciplined at Jet and similarly at other airlines in India.
From time spent in India my observation would be that pilot/management relations there can't be directly compared with what is considered normal in the rest of the world. The costs of open labour warfare, however, are about the same. Hopefully the cooler heads on both sides will prevail sooner rather than later, before they do each other irrepairable damage.
Unless you've spent time working with Jet or at least for an airline in India there are a lot of nuances to the management/pilots relationship there that you'll be missing. This situation is certainly nowhere near as simple or obvious as either party wishes to portray it.
It's true that the company has changed things such as the rules of progression on the Indian pilot group several times without sufficient mutual negotiation. However, it's also true that a goodly number of the pilot group routinely take individual actions that would be firing offences in most airlines elsewhere but that go undisciplined at Jet and similarly at other airlines in India.
From time spent in India my observation would be that pilot/management relations there can't be directly compared with what is considered normal in the rest of the world. The costs of open labour warfare, however, are about the same. Hopefully the cooler heads on both sides will prevail sooner rather than later, before they do each other irrepairable damage.
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Staggering
US airlines have heavily unionized pilot groups. They somehow manage to stagger into the air every morning.....
2) Are they asking for pay hikes in the current market scenario?
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Wannabe Flyer
Give ample notice allow company to plan and respond and do it in a civilized manner.
Give ample notice allow company to plan and respond and do it in a civilized manner.
Cheers
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I wonder if history will repeat itself? Will British charter companies (and their pilots) trip over themselves to take their aircraft out to India to save the day? (As they did with another ex-colony 20 years ago, almost to the month.)
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Prescience indeed...
Originally Posted by iflytb20
...a 14 day advance notice regarding the strike...
The UN Declaration of Human Rights affirms the right to be a member of a trade union, therefore the pilots are perfectly entitled to have one.
What they do with the union is another matter. With global losse running into billions worldwide, now is probably not the best time for unrealistic demands in terms of pay and conditions.
Unions are very much a two edged sword, we've all seen what they've done at General Motors. However I've worked in industries with no union representation and had conditions far below the norm.
I hope their union succeeds and I hope it behaves realistically.
What they do with the union is another matter. With global losse running into billions worldwide, now is probably not the best time for unrealistic demands in terms of pay and conditions.
Unions are very much a two edged sword, we've all seen what they've done at General Motors. However I've worked in industries with no union representation and had conditions far below the norm.
I hope their union succeeds and I hope it behaves realistically.
Not another manager telling the staff they have to take it up the a***during a downturn?
I'm sick to death of managers making the staff suffer while the managers and shareholders are ok. Why the hell do we let them get away with it.
Good on the Jet Pilot's, go for it boys and girls.
I'm sick to death of managers making the staff suffer while the managers and shareholders are ok. Why the hell do we let them get away with it.
Good on the Jet Pilot's, go for it boys and girls.
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Part of the Guilds demands apparently was the push to get rid of the remaining expats employed in India ASAP.
I think they may have shot themselves in the foot as the body count of pilots is continuing to mount and the final count will be high indeed.
The company on the other hand know they can get pilots to replace them (strike breakers) within 24 hours if necessary from anywhere in the world.
I think they may have shot themselves in the foot as the body count of pilots is continuing to mount and the final count will be high indeed.
The company on the other hand know they can get pilots to replace them (strike breakers) within 24 hours if necessary from anywhere in the world.
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Part of the Guilds demands apparently was the push to get rid of the remaining expats employed in India ASAP
Nothing to do with expat policy, pay hikes, working conditions, monsoon Cb clouds etc.
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Thats right
The only demand of the pilots is to re-instate the 2 pilots without any conditions, and then they went on to sack 2 more and probably more to follow.
The executive director actually went on air and said that "the chairman has the right to sack anyone he wishes at anytime without any reasons?????". This has acutally caused the media to turn there backs towards the managment.
The worst part of all this is these guys are all working for a psychotic chairman with an inflated ego and absoultely no power of reasoning.
The executive director actually went on air and said that "the chairman has the right to sack anyone he wishes at anytime without any reasons?????". This has acutally caused the media to turn there backs towards the managment.
The worst part of all this is these guys are all working for a psychotic chairman with an inflated ego and absoultely no power of reasoning.
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Killing
Now it looks like that an ego's battle is taking place. The main loosers will be the pilots and workers that will eventually kill their airline and their jobs.
It's hard to think about an industrial action so badly planned, executed and operated like this. And with so dire consequences...
And the worst: the pilots are not earning any simpathy from local media and passengers. Only from competition.
It's hard to think about an industrial action so badly planned, executed and operated like this. And with so dire consequences...
And the worst: the pilots are not earning any simpathy from local media and passengers. Only from competition.
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Jet is putting 6-8 new expats online on their 737 fleet this week. More inductions expected.
It is reaching out to those expats who were earlier offered positions, but then put indefinitely on hold.
It is reaching out to those expats who were earlier offered positions, but then put indefinitely on hold.
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The company on the other hand know they can get pilots to replace them (strike breakers) within 24 hours if necessary from anywhere in the world.
To work in India, you need an employment visa - reckon on 5-7 days minimum to get one issued.
To fly an Indian-registered aircraft you need a FATA (Foreign Aircrew Temporary Authorisation) from the DGCA. This will take several weeks to get done.
You will need an Indian Government Security Check to get the FATA - mine took over 3 months.
Several of the recently-terminated Jet Airways expat pilots have been approached to return to the airline - effectively as 'strike-breakers' (I emphasise that this dispute is not technically a strike). I can happily report that these management approaches have been ignored or rejected. The Jet Airways national pilots have never asked for the support from the expat community, but they are effectively getting it.
The Indian press is rarely a reliable source of information. The journalists seem to be fed inaccurate stories by both sides to create their often hysterical pieces for their editors.
Sadly, this dispute will probably only weaken the company and the standing of the pilot body. There are rarely 'winners' in this type of situation.
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Just a thought, but if you or your company is even remotely contemplating breaking this action, think long and hard about how safe you'll feel in India, a foreign land if ever there was one. It matters not what foreigners think of the rights and wrongs of this action. All that matters is the Indian pilots themselves deal with their concerns and problems in their own way. Bollocks to all the pontificating experts in lands outside India itself. Best wishes and good speed to the Union and the pilots involved.
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Just a thought, but if you or your company is even remotely contemplating breaking this action, think long and hard about how safe you'll feel in India, a foreign land if ever there was one
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1) Have they gone enmass on casual leave in the US?
2) Are they asking for pay hikes in the current market scenario?
2) Are they asking for pay hikes in the current market scenario?
After the massive fine, I don't believe pilot sickouts have been in the vogue in the U.S.
Don't know if they've had a recent reality check but a couple of years ago the APA was asking for a 53% pay increase:
American Pilots Seek 53 Percent Pay Hike - Business News - redOrbit
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hold on guys
Before anything else, let me make it clear that I am not part of jet airways but a similar stakeholder in another private carrier. What happens in Jet now will affect all of us directly or indirectly. Having said that kudos to these guys for displaying an unprecedented UNITY and maintaining a DIGNITY inspite of all the muck that Jet management is trying to throw on them. Hats off to the president and secretary of NAG for the manner they have handled the press. Yesterday, I was horrified to see how Mr Pronoy Roy (on NDTV) was trying to browbeat these guys and how they stood up to him and to all other media sharks.
The background as I am hearing goes to almost two years since the time Jet started actively hiring expats at the cost of local talent who had more than adequate experience to handle the big birds being brought in. At the same time they started ignoring SWIP, which was the link between the pilots and mgmt. Jet guys have been on go slow since then and we could see that often cursing them whenever we got stuck behind them. The things came to a head when the Jet mgmt, in true barbaric style, tried to completely ignore SWIP, going to the extent of even question its legitimacy. It appears, in order to give it legitimacy, SWIP was reborn as NAG which now has a legal standing and of course the Jet mgmt did not like it one bit. That was the point of open confrontation resulting in the happenings of last three days. By going to labour commissioner, Jet mgmt has given this body its legitimacy and now by irrationally sticking to a weird demand of getting it derecognized, they are going to go nowhere. Lets face it, union is here to stay and the earlier the Jet mgmt recognizes it the better it is. At least they will stop losing the Rs.18-20 crore that they are doing now. OR is there a sinister plan of Jet mgmt to declare a lock out and get out of all its losses by blaming the pilots? This is another theory going around of how naresh goyal is trying to get out of the mess that he has created and finding the creditors now gnawing at his heels.
What next? A lot if like me, you are also a stakeholder in this profession.
At present, NAG is fighting its own battle, ICPA and IPG are doing their own things. Why not a national pilots union by whatever name it is called? There is an urgent need to have it like in other countries where aviation has come of age. Today everybody takes pilots for a ride whether it is DGCA or the company mgmt or the media or the general public. See what happened to the “Scientific” FDTL rules. The money and muscle power of airlines got it overruled and now work is on on a watered down version which will invariably serve the interests of Airlines rather than the affected parties that is us pilots. Similarly, look at the number of expats and compare that to the number of unemployed pilots in India. Except doing lip service, has the DGCA/ministry done anything for these guys? – NO. Unless we unite and negotiate as a block of affected parties, nobody is going to listen. The airlines have formed their own union – FIA, then why not us?
The biggest casualty that is happening due to us being fragmented is flight safety and we are in the direct line of fire – blame the pilot for whatever happens.
I would request that other stakeholders speak up and not only extend their support to jet guys but go further and join together.
Happy landings!!!
The background as I am hearing goes to almost two years since the time Jet started actively hiring expats at the cost of local talent who had more than adequate experience to handle the big birds being brought in. At the same time they started ignoring SWIP, which was the link between the pilots and mgmt. Jet guys have been on go slow since then and we could see that often cursing them whenever we got stuck behind them. The things came to a head when the Jet mgmt, in true barbaric style, tried to completely ignore SWIP, going to the extent of even question its legitimacy. It appears, in order to give it legitimacy, SWIP was reborn as NAG which now has a legal standing and of course the Jet mgmt did not like it one bit. That was the point of open confrontation resulting in the happenings of last three days. By going to labour commissioner, Jet mgmt has given this body its legitimacy and now by irrationally sticking to a weird demand of getting it derecognized, they are going to go nowhere. Lets face it, union is here to stay and the earlier the Jet mgmt recognizes it the better it is. At least they will stop losing the Rs.18-20 crore that they are doing now. OR is there a sinister plan of Jet mgmt to declare a lock out and get out of all its losses by blaming the pilots? This is another theory going around of how naresh goyal is trying to get out of the mess that he has created and finding the creditors now gnawing at his heels.
What next? A lot if like me, you are also a stakeholder in this profession.
At present, NAG is fighting its own battle, ICPA and IPG are doing their own things. Why not a national pilots union by whatever name it is called? There is an urgent need to have it like in other countries where aviation has come of age. Today everybody takes pilots for a ride whether it is DGCA or the company mgmt or the media or the general public. See what happened to the “Scientific” FDTL rules. The money and muscle power of airlines got it overruled and now work is on on a watered down version which will invariably serve the interests of Airlines rather than the affected parties that is us pilots. Similarly, look at the number of expats and compare that to the number of unemployed pilots in India. Except doing lip service, has the DGCA/ministry done anything for these guys? – NO. Unless we unite and negotiate as a block of affected parties, nobody is going to listen. The airlines have formed their own union – FIA, then why not us?
The biggest casualty that is happening due to us being fragmented is flight safety and we are in the direct line of fire – blame the pilot for whatever happens.
I would request that other stakeholders speak up and not only extend their support to jet guys but go further and join together.
Happy landings!!!
You're looking at the wrong industry, mate.
US airlines have heavily unionized pilot groups. They somehow manage to stagger into the air every morning.....
US airlines have heavily unionized pilot groups. They somehow manage to stagger into the air every morning.....
The parallel with the car industry is really bang-on I am afraid re: pensions, healthcare liabilities, etc.
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India FATA procedures
You wrote: The company on the other hand know they can get pilots to replace them (strike breakers) within 24 hours if necessary from anywhere in the world.
This is not true. To work in India, you first need security clearance before you get to India. This takes from 6 weeks to 3 months or more in some cases.
Then after arrival in India, you must do an oral exam at the DGCA in Delhi to get your FATA. (Foreign Aircrew Temporary Authorisation). After 90 days you do the written exam.
Meanwhile, there is a mountain of paperwork, clearances etc. So getting Expats in and flying within 24 hours is not an option open to the management.
This is not true. To work in India, you first need security clearance before you get to India. This takes from 6 weeks to 3 months or more in some cases.
Then after arrival in India, you must do an oral exam at the DGCA in Delhi to get your FATA. (Foreign Aircrew Temporary Authorisation). After 90 days you do the written exam.
Meanwhile, there is a mountain of paperwork, clearances etc. So getting Expats in and flying within 24 hours is not an option open to the management.