Continental flight forced down by turbulence
There seems to be heavy criticism of SLF not being obediant. There are plenty of examples just this year that leave alot to be desired by the crew.#
Like climbing to 41,000FT & 40 minutes after take off on a German major airline, a flat calm flight on a beautiful day, the seat belts signs still on. Only after 3 requests to the CC did they query the flight deck, who imediately clicked it off. Or the UK charter airline in light to moderate turbulence, with pax all belted up, the cabin crew decide to stand on seat arm rests & lift up & down their very heavy wheelie bags from the overheads - unbelievable.
Or the big airways 734 that didn't even have a safety card in the seat pocket. I could go on, but in my experience the bulk of SLF are more sensible than you give them credit for.
Like climbing to 41,000FT & 40 minutes after take off on a German major airline, a flat calm flight on a beautiful day, the seat belts signs still on. Only after 3 requests to the CC did they query the flight deck, who imediately clicked it off. Or the UK charter airline in light to moderate turbulence, with pax all belted up, the cabin crew decide to stand on seat arm rests & lift up & down their very heavy wheelie bags from the overheads - unbelievable.
Or the big airways 734 that didn't even have a safety card in the seat pocket. I could go on, but in my experience the bulk of SLF are more sensible than you give them credit for.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Feriton
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If the seat belt sign was only about keeping your belt on while seated, it would not be a problem for me. The problem comes when you are expected to stay in your seat for hours. My doctor told me to make sure I got up once in a while to avoid "economy class syndrome". Good advice, except it's very difficult to do when the sign is on for the majority of a flight. Not to mention the need to use the rest room. The crew seems to forget that when you take off, you might already have been in your seat for an hour or more. Then the sign stays on for another hour or more. It varies from person to person, but some simply cannot wait that long to use the lav. As a result, you usually see passengers getting up while the sign is still on.
Anyone have any numbers as to the actual number of injuries per year caused by turbulence? I'm guessing that it's very low.
Anyone have any numbers as to the actual number of injuries per year caused by turbulence? I'm guessing that it's very low.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sonoma, CA, USA
Age: 79
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Click it or Ticket
In California, and many other states, it's illegal to drive a car without every occupant wearing a seatbelt.
Why do passengers in aircraft feel that it's unnecessary?
Perhaps the airlines could hire an enforcement officer to fine all of the seatbelt scofflaws. Another revenue stream.
Why do passengers in aircraft feel that it's unnecessary?
Perhaps the airlines could hire an enforcement officer to fine all of the seatbelt scofflaws. Another revenue stream.
Last edited by Robert Campbell; 14th Aug 2009 at 17:20. Reason: Additions
Sims Fly Virtually
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Used to be 3rd Sand Dune from the Left - But now I'm somewhere else somewhere else.
Posts: 704
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MOL - And Silly PAX
MOL? - The owner of a certain "Emerald Coloured" airline
I've been a Frequent Flier for many years in/to/from the Middle East, mostly with GF. The average (read - those speaking from right to left) pax takes absolutely no notice of any of the briefing - the cell-phones bleeping aweay on approach make that clear
(Don't even get me started on cruise-liner-trunks in the overheads!)
GF, on longhaul, not only ask you to keep your belts on regardles of the signs except when you need to move around, but also to ask that you belt-up over your blanket if you want to sleep - so they can check without waking you if there's any expected bumps coming up. While moving arouind the cabin, they check, and politely remind any pax not doing so.
The belt lights are put on when the front end deem it wise, and are switched of otherwise, so there's no need for excessive crossing of legs, or 'cry wolf syndrome' over the warnings. Like previous posters, my dearly-beloved has also been trained to listen to the briefing and to keep the belt on
(My first post in R&N for a couple of years! Hope you don't mind my 2 Hahalas-worth
)
I've been a Frequent Flier for many years in/to/from the Middle East, mostly with GF. The average (read - those speaking from right to left
) pax takes absolutely no notice of any of the briefing - the cell-phones bleeping aweay on approach make that clear (Don't even get me started on cruise-liner-trunks in the overheads!)GF, on longhaul, not only ask you to keep your belts on regardles of the signs except when you need to move around, but also to ask that you belt-up over your blanket if you want to sleep - so they can check without waking you if there's any expected bumps coming up. While moving arouind the cabin, they check, and politely remind any pax not doing so.
The belt lights are put on when the front end deem it wise, and are switched of otherwise, so there's no need for excessive crossing of legs, or 'cry wolf syndrome' over the warnings. Like previous posters, my dearly-beloved has also been trained to listen to the briefing and to keep the belt on
(My first post in R&N for a couple of years! Hope you don't mind my 2 Hahalas-worth
)Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Feriton
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's proven that auto seat belts save lives. Not so sure about airliner belts. It's well known that the seats break loose in a crash and render the belts useless. The sole purpose of the belts seems to be in prevention of turbulence injuries. But how many such injuries occur?
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Here today, elsewhere tomorrow
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My two worthless coin contribution is for crew to make an announcement at cruise if seat belt sign is going to stay on due to expected turbulence so SLF don't think it left on by mistake and start moving about or complaining.
BOAC,
Yes, I agree although I wonder if it would come down to who had the better barrister pleading force majeur.
It would be interesting to have a (without prejudice) opinion from Flying Lawyer.
It is, of course, a criminal offence to fail to comply with the ANO:
CAP 393 AIR NAVIGATION: THE ORDER AND THE REGULATIONS
AMENDMENT 3/2008
Authority of commander of an aircraft
77 Every person in an aircraft shall obey all lawful commands which the commander of that aircraft may give for the purpose of securing the safety of the aircraft and of persons or property carried therein, or the safety, efficiency or regularity of air navigation.
Acting in a disruptive manner
78 No person shall while in an aircraft:
(a) use any threatening, abusive or insulting words towards a member of the crew of the aircraft;
(b) behave in a threatening, abusive, insulting or disorderly manner towards a
member of the crew of the aircraft; or
(c) intentionally interfere with the performance by a member of the crew of the aircraft of his duties.
p.s. I cannot imagine not having my seatbelt secured whilst seated even if the Fasten sign is not illuminated.
Yes, I agree although I wonder if it would come down to who had the better barrister pleading force majeur.
It would be interesting to have a (without prejudice) opinion from Flying Lawyer.
It is, of course, a criminal offence to fail to comply with the ANO:
CAP 393 AIR NAVIGATION: THE ORDER AND THE REGULATIONS
AMENDMENT 3/2008
Authority of commander of an aircraft
77 Every person in an aircraft shall obey all lawful commands which the commander of that aircraft may give for the purpose of securing the safety of the aircraft and of persons or property carried therein, or the safety, efficiency or regularity of air navigation.
Acting in a disruptive manner
78 No person shall while in an aircraft:
(a) use any threatening, abusive or insulting words towards a member of the crew of the aircraft;
(b) behave in a threatening, abusive, insulting or disorderly manner towards a
member of the crew of the aircraft; or
(c) intentionally interfere with the performance by a member of the crew of the aircraft of his duties.
p.s. I cannot imagine not having my seatbelt secured whilst seated even if the Fasten sign is not illuminated.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Sol, sector ZZ9 plural Z alpha
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Of course the problem is further exacerbated by people who think that because they are going off on a nice holiday and they have 2 hours to wait until boarding that maybe 3 or 4 beers and a greasy panini they wouldnt normally consume at 11AM might be a good idea while they wait...
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Alabama
Age: 58
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Of course the problem is further exacerbated by people who think that because they are going off on a nice holiday and they have 2 hours to wait until boarding that maybe 3 or 4 beers and a greasy panini they wouldnt normally consume at 11AM might be a good idea while they wait...
Next time you have your 3 or 4 beers when on off duty think of what you wrote here!
FSLF
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Paris
Age: 74
Posts: 275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After sep 11
Post Sep 11 flying is simply no fun at all for the SLF. Luggage limits, airport hassles, constrained seating, enforced urine retention ... No wonder high-speed trains are catching on in Europe.
Edmund
Edmund
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 350
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Diamond Bob
It's proven that auto seat belts save lives. Not so sure about airliner belts. It's well known that the seats break loose in a crash and render the belts useless. The sole purpose of the belts seems to be in prevention of turbulence injuries. But how many such injuries occur?
The advantage of belts is somewhat less obvious in a crash. However, they don't hurt. If you can keep a body synchronized with the airframe, the peak accelerations endured by that body will be lower than if it is allowed to slide forward and impact something else in the cabin, and so the extent and severity of injuries will generally be lower with a belt. The principles of seat restraints are the same, whether it's in a car or an airplane.
