BA short of pilots...what a surprise!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: London, England
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BA short of pilots...what a surprise!
Poor Rodderick - now that he is no longer in a position to ruin his third airline, Qantas, he is now focusing all of his management "skills" on BA. According to my source, BA is only 8 pilots in surplus and will need to begin recruitment early in the New Year. Typically, though, Rod is quoted as saying that he would rather cancel flights than recruit more pilots!!! He is concerned about losing face in the City.
What a way to run an airline! Still with 3 senior managers per airframe what do you expect?
[ 26 November 2001: Message edited by: Hot Wings ]
What a way to run an airline! Still with 3 senior managers per airframe what do you expect?
[ 26 November 2001: Message edited by: Hot Wings ]
Rather cancel flights than recruit pilots!!!!
What kind of idiot is this man??
I would think that a flight deck plus cabin crew salary for one year would work out quite a bit less expensive than hotacing the pax for an LHR-LAX service due to a lack of pilots!
Doc C.
What kind of idiot is this man??
I would think that a flight deck plus cabin crew salary for one year would work out quite a bit less expensive than hotacing the pax for an LHR-LAX service due to a lack of pilots!
Doc C.
Guest
Posts: n/a
This is a familiar problem first identified by the British Railway operator Connex South-Central.
After winning their franchise in the great sell-off in the nineties they immediately fired 30% of the train drivers. Then they cancelled services due to lack of drivers.
It seems that their is a direct link between the number of drivers/pilots you have and the number of services you can provide. Who would have guessed that?
After winning their franchise in the great sell-off in the nineties they immediately fired 30% of the train drivers. Then they cancelled services due to lack of drivers.
It seems that their is a direct link between the number of drivers/pilots you have and the number of services you can provide. Who would have guessed that?
PPRuNe Person
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: see roster
Posts: 1,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The "Prince of Darkness" has said (I was in the room) that he has held his position in Flt Ops Management for so long due to his uncanny skill at forecasting flight ops requirements for pilots.
I wonder if he is now looking over his shoulder?
Hot Wings - your source?
I wonder if he is now looking over his shoulder?
Hot Wings - your source?
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The 4th Quark Galaxy
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know that we're THAT little in surplus, but certainly the mix of surplus pilots and fleets doesn't add up. Some fleets are doing lots of flying and others are sitting around on their proverbials.
Still, this is a rumours network and it would be good to see Skippy actually do something.
And....
Recover
Still, this is a rumours network and it would be good to see Skippy actually do something.
And....
Recover
Terrier
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: moonbase alpha
Posts: 564
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The "Prince of Darkness" in my opinion is a @@@@.
He has kept his job most likely cos he is a brown noser.
When I met him he was incredibly rude. He is just a pen pusher who has a high opinion of himself.
He has kept his job most likely cos he is a brown noser.
When I met him he was incredibly rude. He is just a pen pusher who has a high opinion of himself.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: London, England
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Recover - it is true that BA only have a surplus of 8 pilots.
As it stands BA do not have enough pilots to run the schedule from April 2002 onwards, hence the requirement to begin recruiting again in Feb/Mar. Don't forget that there will be over 200 retirements during the next 12 months - 19 Captains are retiring from the 744 in January 2002.
It will be interesting to see what happens but I suspect that BA will try to farm more and more work out to the franchises. Perhaps there will also be a clamp down on sickness levels and an increase in CAP (hours worked). Worst case, is the rumour that a certain long haul fleet chief pilot has been trying to persuade the CAA that hours spent in the bunk should not count towards the 900 hours per annum limit. Anything to avoid recruiting!
Oh, did I mention a cut back in simulator recurrent training, from 4 days per year to 3 days, in order to save money? Safety is our number one priority! Still, BA need to save money on pilots and training so that they can waste it on 600 senior managers and 1000s of middle managers - many of whom are still duty travelling around in First Class.
[ 26 November 2001: Message edited by: Hot Wings ]
As it stands BA do not have enough pilots to run the schedule from April 2002 onwards, hence the requirement to begin recruiting again in Feb/Mar. Don't forget that there will be over 200 retirements during the next 12 months - 19 Captains are retiring from the 744 in January 2002.
It will be interesting to see what happens but I suspect that BA will try to farm more and more work out to the franchises. Perhaps there will also be a clamp down on sickness levels and an increase in CAP (hours worked). Worst case, is the rumour that a certain long haul fleet chief pilot has been trying to persuade the CAA that hours spent in the bunk should not count towards the 900 hours per annum limit. Anything to avoid recruiting!
Oh, did I mention a cut back in simulator recurrent training, from 4 days per year to 3 days, in order to save money? Safety is our number one priority! Still, BA need to save money on pilots and training so that they can waste it on 600 senior managers and 1000s of middle managers - many of whom are still duty travelling around in First Class.
[ 26 November 2001: Message edited by: Hot Wings ]
PPRuNe Person
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: see roster
Posts: 1,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
411A - you want to know?
Apply for a flt ops position in BA.
Log into FICO, and, armed with the latest copy of the Master Seniority List, download everyone's hours. Type them into a database/spreadsheet program, and away you go!
No, I didn't think you could be bothered, and nor will anyone else be on your behalf!
Apply for a flt ops position in BA.
Log into FICO, and, armed with the latest copy of the Master Seniority List, download everyone's hours. Type them into a database/spreadsheet program, and away you go!
No, I didn't think you could be bothered, and nor will anyone else be on your behalf!
Controversial, moi?
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hot Wings
I hate to be controversial but it does seem slightly over the top that all bunk time counts towards the 900 hour annual limit. I spent 10 years on the 744 and enjoyed every minute of it and in my humble opinion a 4 crew HKG was a great deal less tiring than flying to Moscow and back in a 757.
They may well be an argument that we are all working hard enough or to count bunk hours at half rate but sleeping or just resting in the bunk can not really be described as physically tiring!
I hate to be controversial but it does seem slightly over the top that all bunk time counts towards the 900 hour annual limit. I spent 10 years on the 744 and enjoyed every minute of it and in my humble opinion a 4 crew HKG was a great deal less tiring than flying to Moscow and back in a 757.
They may well be an argument that we are all working hard enough or to count bunk hours at half rate but sleeping or just resting in the bunk can not really be described as physically tiring!
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Belgium
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know what you think of it, but a yearly maximum of 900 hrs of flight on long haul routes is really high actually! That's over 80 hrs per month if you take into account all holidays, you know...
My previous employer and also my future employer both require(d) much less: 750hrs.
I strongly advice BALPA to push for a reduction in BA's duty times.
My previous employer and also my future employer both require(d) much less: 750hrs.
I strongly advice BALPA to push for a reduction in BA's duty times.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
...and for a reduction of pay, to go along with those reduced hours.
BA..overworked and underpaid...expect NOT.
CS First Boston stated in part in a recent report...."we estimate that British Airways will contine to destroy shareholders value for at least three years." That projection is based on the fact that the carrier and its network will have to struggle until the first quarter of 2004 to achieve the traffic volumes posted at pre September 11 levels.
So, it seems that pilots will just have to work a little "harder" to keep their jobs, let alone their present level of pay. Times are tough just now, so these guys/gals had better be glad for their positions.
As for BA managers...about a 50% reduction would be in order IMHO.
[ 27 November 2001: Message edited by: 411A ]
BA..overworked and underpaid...expect NOT.
CS First Boston stated in part in a recent report...."we estimate that British Airways will contine to destroy shareholders value for at least three years." That projection is based on the fact that the carrier and its network will have to struggle until the first quarter of 2004 to achieve the traffic volumes posted at pre September 11 levels.
So, it seems that pilots will just have to work a little "harder" to keep their jobs, let alone their present level of pay. Times are tough just now, so these guys/gals had better be glad for their positions.
As for BA managers...about a 50% reduction would be in order IMHO.
[ 27 November 2001: Message edited by: 411A ]
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,914
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Trust 411A, the right hand man to the Guvnerd, to trot out such trite idiocy. Is this man really a 'pilot' or is he the Guvnerd in disguise (who I believe is the idiot called Ceileidh in another forum? Boy couldn't pilot forums do without these two!
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: West Wales
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would be very surpised if "a certain BA long-haul chief pilot" was spending time trying to convince CAA that bunk hours should not count towards annual flying maxima. The BA management pilots I have encountered from time to time are a bit too canny to tilt at lost causes. Command time is command time, whether at the controls or in a bunk, a concept long established by maritime tradition - the master of a supertanker doesn't stop being the skipper when he is getting his head down. Likewise, the aircraft commander is responsible for the flight from off-chocks to on-chocks. I suspect a coffee-machine rumour here.
Controversial, moi?
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pirate
I wouldn't actually be suprised. The present situation is that pilots are reaching 900 hours and having to drop trips with a good percentage of those hours spent in the bunk.
I will leave others to decide if that is a realistic way to count hours.
Notso
You obviously don't like The Guvnor or 411A but they have as much right to post whatever they see fit as we all do. Instead of wasting your time attacking them for being here why not try some reasoned argument?
[ 27 November 2001: Message edited by: M.Mouse ]
I wouldn't actually be suprised. The present situation is that pilots are reaching 900 hours and having to drop trips with a good percentage of those hours spent in the bunk.
I will leave others to decide if that is a realistic way to count hours.
Notso
You obviously don't like The Guvnor or 411A but they have as much right to post whatever they see fit as we all do. Instead of wasting your time attacking them for being here why not try some reasoned argument?
[ 27 November 2001: Message edited by: M.Mouse ]
