Global downturn and the job market

[flufdriver]

I would second what Al E. Vator has comented.

Of course that is of little comfort to the laid-off Pilot who is trying to survive until things improve.

my understanding is that when the global situation does improve there is likely to be a tremendous shortage of (experienced) Pilots for all the reasons mentioned already in these forums.

let us hope that organizations like IFALPA will then step up to the plate and work towards adequate compensation and working conditions for Pilots by backing the individual associations in their quest for betterment.

The gains have to be made during the good times, because as certain as the next upswing is, at some point another downturn will follow.

Now that the industry is talking about pax standing for short flights, I hope they won't get the idea that the Pilots should be standing as well! Nah... I guess its more likely they'll try to design us out of the aircraft altogether!

fluf

[4PW's]

Utter rubbish about SQ Cargo.

The company is renewing all contracts.

Not one pilot has been laid off and every flight is full to the gunnals.

GFC???

What GFC?

Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story...

[kbrockman]

A better future in Asia for job opportunities ?

Certainly you would think so after reading the Boeing statement about the Indian market ;
Boeing Sees India Growth Among ?Greatest? in World (Update2) - Bloomberg.com

....Indian carriers may buy 1,000 new jets worth $100 billion in the next two decades, Dinesh Keskar, president of Boeing India, said in New Delhi today. The country accounts for 3 percent of Boeing’s commercial-jet market globally, he said.

and...

Keskar said. “‘The potential for future growth of air travel, both domestically and internationally, is among the greatest in the world.”

.... and also after all the exciting news comming out of other parts of the far -East ;
Singapore Air Loses Passengers to ?McDonald?s Model? Carriers - Bloomberg.com

PT Lion Mentari Airlines, Indonesia’s biggest low-fare carrier, is buying 178 Boeing Co. planes, the highest number for the aircraft maker in Asia over the last five years. Malaysia’s AirAsia, with a tagline “Now Everyone can Fly,” has ordered 175 aircraft from Airbus SAS, the largest client for single- aisle models in the region for the world’s biggest planemaker.

Hundreds of jobs in the near future for both A32X and B73X fleet expansion plans, undoubtedly plenty of position open for people willing to live the expat live.

to 4PW
Utter rubbish about SQ Cargo.

The company is renewing all contracts.

Not one pilot has been laid off and every flight is full to the gunnals.

I certainly hope you're right about that but given the current numbers there is certainly a risk that some planes will be parked for a long time to come and consequently jobs will have to go (also in the Cargo section I'm afraid), and as you know , contract renewals don't mean that much in SIN when it comes to job security for EXpats.

quote from same article in 2nd link

Singapore Air’s passenger numbers slumped 19 percent in June, the eighth consecutive drop

[fourgolds]

4pw,s. Thanks for the clarification. As mentioned in origonal post " add /amend as required". All deduced from PPRUNE itself. Does highlight the inaccuracy of the forum though.

so just to confirm then , has SQ laid off / not renewed contracts on the freighter as well as the pax ?

also whats the story in india , are Jet renewing contracts ? , do foreign nationals have to leave within/by a certain time frame ?

tks 4G

[Bigmouth]

there are simply not enough qualified and experienced pilots globally to fly these aircraft

Very true. But who cares as long as there are plenty of trained monkeys around willing to fly for peanuts. Certainly the airlines themselves don't nor does the bargain hunting flying public.

[4PW's]

Apologies; the utter rubbish comment reads as a bit harsh...sorry.

No-one's been laid off. There were rumors from on-high a few months back that...well, best not to say.

Contracts are being renewed. That's what matters now. No paid leave and options for early departure have been withdrawn for Captains.

That said, if you were a technical analyst.....

[fourgolds]

4pw,s . No worries , no offence taken. Its about establishing what is really going on. Glad things seem ( secure) for now at SQ. Must say I,m glad they are managing it as you say. Esp for those of us considering SQ one day in the future when things turn around . I think your management at least recognise this. If they took a Draconian outlook on this they would find themselves up the creek without a paddle when this all turns around and they need people. At least a little goodwill is present ( at least from the outside anyway).

Fly safe , 4g,s.

[Jimmy Do Little]

and Vietnam. . . waiting for current, qualified, willing and able pilots.

Especially if you're willing to come in at LESS than the currently accepted salary!!!!

Quote:
there are simply not enough qualified and experienced pilots globally to fly these aircraft
Very true. But who cares as long as there are plenty of trained monkeys around willing to fly for peanuts. Certainly the airlines themselves don't nor does the bargain hunting flying public.

Trained? You would be based somewhere in Asia, yes?

[expat400]

4PW.

On March 9 25 Captains and FO:s in SQ Cargo were summoned to a meeting at SQ Sports Club. They were given a termination letter and stripped of their ID:s and tokens on the spot. They had between 3-20 months remaining on their contracts.

I'd call that a "lay off", wouldn't you?

[fourgolds]

Well well , now thats a different story.

[800driver]

Ryanair are looking for 70 direct entry commands, must be 737 rated. Appx 250 cadets in the training system. No requirement for direct entry F/Os at the moment .

[somethingclever]

Can you apply for DE captain if you meet the requirements placed on their internal upgrades at FR? Maybe do an upgrade evaluation? I meet all their other requirements but I don't have P1 time on the 738.

[800driver]

It’s unlikely at the moment. It wasn’t so long ago that Ryanair did recruit DE F/O’s with the chance of fast track to Command.

[tdk90]

U.S Congress about to mandate that both pilots must hold an ATP for all airline operations. This will hopefully sow the seeds of a shortage when hiring starts again and also kill off some of the pilot-puppy mills over here.. In addition, rest requirements about to change dramatically in the U.S. which might necessitate more pilots to cover the same amount of flying...

[kbrockman]

an extra cost for airlines is a good idea ?

U.S Congress about to mandate that both pilots must hold an ATP for all airline operations. This will hopefully sow the seeds of a shortage when hiring starts again and also kill off some of the pilot-puppy mills over here.. In addition, rest requirements about to change dramatically in the U.S. which might necessitate more pilots to cover the same amount of flying...

So they are basically forcing the airlines to expand their pilotbase, I wonder how that will work , a lot of them are hemorraging money , a big extra cost like that could very well push some of the ones that are already struggeling finally over the cliff.

Also it won't sit well with a lot of (potential) investors .


Not that I'm against more jobs for pilots but in the end it is a business and it is there to make money and we all know how hard that is in todays aviation world.

The ATP thing might be a good idea.

[tdk90]

a big extra cost like that could very well push some of the ones that are already struggeling finally over the cliff.

If you worked over here you'd know that that would be a good thing.....

[Maisk Rotum]

KAL using a revolving door

Korean Air is still hiring in almost every aircraft in almost every seat;

All this while certain elements in the organisation are busy failing expats on bogus checks and and firing them and others on less than honest and honourable grounds.

Try them if you dare...

[impartial]

Not to detract from the seriousness of redundancy at any age, but it would be interesting to know the demographic split.

Can/are the airlines announcing pilot work force cuts acheiving this mostly from the bottom of the seniority list and by non-renewal of temp contracts, or is the downsizing being acheived by voluntary redundancy/early retirements?

With the industry as cyclical as it is (i've heard 10 year cycles of peak and trough recruitment) where are we in terms of an ageing pilot workforce?

I hope I am in as secure a job as any at the moment and wish good luck to those who have not been so fortunate.