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Yemeni airliner down?

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Yemeni airliner down?

Old 30th Jun 2009, 16:29
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Media now reporting that survivor is not a 5 year old boy but a 14 year old girl
Easy mistake to make!

That brings into question the efficacy of second hand news reporting (and the reliance thereupon) for resulting actions. What if the news had reported nobody alive, and the rescue services had believed it - the child would be dead by now. Speculation is devilish work.


Warning. This post has very little value too and will probably be removed shortly as well.
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Old 30th Jun 2009, 16:29
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Threemiles

Thanks for that. I understand that is the procedure for an approach from the south. What happens if you are approaching from the north?
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Old 30th Jun 2009, 16:45
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As an SLF I'm a bit confused on a couple of points. From the charts the missed approach is not consistent with the planes final position. Would any mechanical or other issues make it prudent for a seasoned pilot to deviate at his discretion?

It would seem that given the difficult approach that the aviate would outweigh the navigate on a missed approach but vectoring out to sea (as per the missed approach chart) would appear to minimize external issues. A loss of spatial awareness during the missed approach would seem to place the accident site in the bay...not its actual location...
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Old 30th Jun 2009, 17:05
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Just seen a report that the crash location is '9.2 miles north of Comoros Island and 20 miles from the airport'.

Meanwhile, I note that all the usual prejudices are coming out - not a European, North American or Australian airline therefore 'must be unsafe'. Aircraft is 19 years old so 'should not have been flying' and so on.

I note that Yemenia has a current IOSA audit (valid to June 2010).


Some one got there before me. From what I am reading elsewhere about this airlines record the prejudices are well warranted, you seem to have a protective attitude. Why in gods name should any airline with a record like this be allowed fly in any part of world never mind Europe? These black lists need to become more public knowledge too. Accessible and PUBLISIED to the general public
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Old 30th Jun 2009, 17:41
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AUDIT EXECUTIVE SUMMARY







YEMEN



The regulations do not comply in all respects with ICAO SARPs.

There is no established training policy or programme for technical staff.

The Flight Operations Division suffers from a shortage of adequately qualified and experienced operations inspectors.

There is a need to establish a more comprehensive system for the certification and surveillance of air operators that conforms to the requirements of Annex 6 and related guidance material.

With respect to airworthiness supervision and control functions, the CAMA does not comply in many respects with the relevant SARPs in Annex 6, Chapters 8 and 11, and Annex 8.

There is a need to establish a more comprehensive system for the approval of maintenance organizations, maintenance programmes and on-going surveillance that conforms to the requirements of Annex 6 and related guidance material.

The airworthiness inspectors do not have the required knowledge and maintenance experience to discharge the duties expected of them.

Inspectors lack adequate training, regulations are not up-to-date, and guidance material and procedures have not been adequately developed.

Les dossiers noirs du transport aérien
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Old 30th Jun 2009, 18:06
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Thanks for that. I understand that is the procedure for an approach from the south. What happens if you are approaching from the north?
You fly to HAI VOR at sufficient altitude. HAI is at the airport. Then you fly southbound for about 10 NM, make a teardrop turn and return for approach 02, break off to the left for right downwind 20.

In a non-radar environment anything but stick to this procedure at night is suicide.
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Old 30th Jun 2009, 18:12
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That brings into question the efficacy of second hand news reporting (and the reliance thereupon) for resulting actions. What if the news had reported nobody alive, and the rescue services had believed it - the child would be dead by now. Speculation is devilish work.
It was information given by an official source to the media. Ergo, what you say is nonsense.
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Old 30th Jun 2009, 18:31
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Funny how the french minister is ranting on about unsafe airlines - methinks Air France have lost 3 hulls since 2000
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Old 30th Jun 2009, 18:42
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Possible clue from BBC article about protest group "SOS Voyage aux Comores"

According to the BBC this flight, specifically, caused enough controversy in the Comoran community in Marseille to warrant a protest in August. Of note is the baggage allowance quoted in the article, 40kg. That seems like a lot to me. BBC article is here.
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Old 30th Jun 2009, 19:09
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Well said White Knight

40kg. That seems like a lot to me.
KLM also allows 40kgs to East Africa as do many airlines.
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Old 30th Jun 2009, 19:23
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Yemenia Faced EU Blacklisting After 2007 Plane Fault

June 30 (Bloomberg) -- Yemenia, the airline that had a fatal crash today in the Indian Ocean, faced possible blacklisting in Europe after France found fault in 2007 with the same Airbus A310 plane involved in the accident.
The Yemeni national carrier was subject to more frequent inspections in Europe after the incident two years ago, according to French and European Union officials. The airline passed checks that could have led to a ban on the continent, European Transport Commissioner Antonio Tajani told reporters today in Brussels.
Yemenia was on an EU watchlist because of safety concerns and had not flown A310s into France after a mid-2007 inspection of the plane that crashed, French Transportation Minister Dominique Bussereau said. “This plane had been excluded from the national territory because it represented certain irregularities,” he told members of parliament.
The Yemenia aircraft with 153 people on board came down in the ocean just before it was due to land in the Comoros Islands after taking off from the Arab country’s capital, Sana’a. The cause of the accident hasn’t been determined, though the carrier’s chairman has said weather was to blame. A five-year- old child survived.
‘Strict Surveillance’
“This airline was under strict surveillance,” Bussereau said on France’s i-tele television channel. “It’s a plane that disappeared from French soil following the discovery of numerous faults.”
Bussereau didn’t specify what problems were identified when France’s civil aviation authority, the DGAC, found faults with the aircraft.
EU rules require that any ban of planes be implemented across Europe, not just in an individual country. Bussereau didn’t spell out today whether the plane was banned only in France and his press office didn’t respond to six messages seeking comment.
European nations have acted in concert for three years in excluding any airlines or portions of fleets from flying in the region. Fatal crashes in 2004 and 2005 prompted the governments to develop a common blacklist procedure.
The list, updated at least four times a year, is based on deficiencies found during checks at European airports, the use of antiquated aircraft and shortcomings by non-EU airline regulators.
Inspections
Various planes operated by Yemenia underwent 24 inspections in different EU countries after France first identified the problem with the A310 in 2007, according to EU air safety regulators.
The airline wasn’t placed on the EU blacklist because the carrier passed inspections done in Europe after the initial concerns, Tajani said. “The controls were positive.”
The European Commission, the 27-nation EU’s regulatory arm, will ask Yemenia to make a safety presentation in coming days, the transport commissioner said. The next update of the blacklist is due in about two weeks.
“We never had problems with the plane,” Yemenia Chairman Abdulkalek Saleh Al-Kadi said in a telephone interview. “It was purely weather.”
The plane wasn’t banned from flying in France, he said, and was last serviced May 2. The pilot was “well experienced, middle aged and has thousands of hours of flights,” he said.
Ali Sumairi, deputy managing director of Yemenia Airlines, told France24 television that the plane “was checked by French authorities with some findings, but they were minor findings that were corrected.”
‘Technically Sound’
Sumairi said the plane departed without any difficulty. “The aircraft was technically sound,” he said. Yemenia had flown an Airbus A330 plane from Paris to Sana’a via Marseilles, and then transferred passengers for Comoros onto the A310.
The EU blacklist, besides imposing a ban in Europe, can act as a guide for travelers worldwide and influence safety policies in non-EU countries. Nations that are home to carriers with poor safety records can ground them to avoid being put on the EU list, while countries keen to keep out unsafe airlines can use the European list as a guide for their own bans.
Yemen is the poorest Arab nation, with about 40 percent of the population living on less than $2 a day, according to the U.K. Department for International Development.
A310 Usage
The A310 is a medium- to long-range widebody plane that is a shorter variant of Airbus’s first model, the A300. More than 150 airlines operate A310s, according to Ascend, a London-based aviation database. The company ceased building A310s in July 2007 as the aircraft was supplanted by newer models.
This is the first fatal crash suffered by Yemenia, according to Ascend. A passenger was killed in June 2007 when a security guard allegedly opened fire while passengers were disembarking from a plane. The airline’s last total loss of an aircraft was in August 2001, when a Boeing 727 struck a concrete block after overrunning upon landing at Asmara, Eritrea.
Today’s crash is the ninth total loss and eighth fatal accident involving an A310 since the type entered service in April 1983, Ascend said, adding that 755 passengers and 74 crew members died in those accidents.
The Yemenia accident is the fifth fatal accident to passengers on paid commercial flights this year and the third involving a western-built jetliner, Ascend said. Toulouse, France-based Airbus is a unit of European Aeronautic, Defence & Space Co.
Yemenia Fleet
Yemenia leased four A310-300s, according to the Arab Air Carriers Organization. The plane that crashed was the oldest of the model in the carrier’s fleet, having been delivered in 1990. The newest A310 in the fleet was built in 1997. The airline, which is 49 percent owned by Saudi Arabian Airlines, also operates leased Airbus A330-200 and Boeing Co. 737-800 aircraft.
The plane was owned by International Lease Finance Corp., a unit of American International Group Inc., and had been on lease to Yemenia since 1999. Airbus said in an e-mailed statement that it is providing technical assistance to French investigators on the crash.
Most of the passengers were of Comorian origin from France, the airline said. Sixty-six French nationals were on the flight, the French Foreign Ministry said.
The Comoros Islands are an archipelago located off the southeastern coast of Africa, northwest of Madagascar. About 200,000 Comorians live in France, according to the French government.
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Old 30th Jun 2009, 20:19
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Yemenia Chairman Abdulkalek Saleh Al-Kadi said in a telephone interview. “It was purely weather.”
Investigation completed.
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Old 30th Jun 2009, 20:33
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threemiles,

Prophetic statement methinks.
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Old 1st Jul 2009, 02:59
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Threemiles

Once again, many thanks for your explanation of the visual approach procedure for runway 20 when arriving from the north. The charts in post #22 did not show that.
I have one last question. In the event of a missed approach to 20 do you repeat the procedure exactly?
Finally, can anyone accurately show where the aircraft came down? I am still confused about it's being reported 9 miles to the north of the island.
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Old 1st Jul 2009, 06:05
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Xeque

Once again, many thanks for your explanation of the visual approach procedure for runway 20 when arriving from the north. The charts in post #22 did not show that.
I have one last question. In the event of a missed approach to 20 do you repeat the procedure exactly?
Finally, can anyone accurately show where the aircraft came down? I am still confused about it's being reported 9 miles to the north of the island.
The proper chart for this is
http://www.ais-asecna.org/pdf/atlas/.../moroni-06.pdf

Because it is a visual approach there is nothing said about a missed approach procedure. Most likely you would stay in the traffic pattern and try again. Can be tricky though, but normally would be briefed well before the approach. Alternative, fly back to HA and repeat complete procedure. This does not seem what happened.

The said crash site is where you extend the centerline rwy 20 over water to the north, well off the shore. There is no part of the procedure that leads there. A straight-in from there (the North) is not possible me thinks, mountains in the way to final.

With INS properly updated all no problem. But lack of DME-DME update may be a problem in the area. If no GPS, mapshift may be significant at the time of approach.
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Old 1st Jul 2009, 06:38
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Who will do the investigation? I can't imagine the Coromos Islands have an AIB department. Yemen since it was their plane? France since that's where Airbus are?
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Old 1st Jul 2009, 06:54
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Partial reply to AIB question

Transport Minister Dominique Bussereau said the French BEA would participate in the investigation if French citizens were aboard. Which is the case.
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Old 1st Jul 2009, 07:01
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Owner

A source "close to the industry" says the A310 belongs to ILFC, a leasing outfit with "one of the world's biggest fleets."

Source: Un A310 s'abîme près des Comores, 152 disparus, une survivante - Yahoo! Actualités
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Old 1st Jul 2009, 07:26
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Black Boxs Located

BBC NEWS | Africa | Yemen plane's black box located
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Old 1st Jul 2009, 08:47
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Info & lists

As always lots of useful constructive direct knowledge info, so my thanks to all who posted same. The problem with blacklists is that to get on one the airline has to be Dire. Nowadays audits produce little real inside information about company culture, which is arguably more important that how they do their paperwork.
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