Yemeni airliner down?
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suppose more similarities to Armavia 2006
(ASN Aircraft accident Airbus A320-211 EK-32009 Adler/Sochi Airport (AER))
suppose more similarities to Armavia 2006
(ASN Aircraft accident Airbus A320-211 EK-32009 Adler/Sochi Airport (AER))
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Sky News report
"We still do not know the nationality or the gender of the person rescued," Yemenia Airways' Mohammad al Sumairi said.
But a Comoros police official revealed the survivor was a young child.
The news came amid reports of human remains and debris being spotted by search planes. More than 150 people were on board the jet.
A Yemenia Airways Airbus Two French military planes and a French ship had left the islands of Mayotte and Reunion to search for the Yemenia Airways Airbus A310-300, officials said.
The Comoros foreign ministry said 142 passengers - including three children - and 11 crew were on the flight.
Those on board were nationals from France and Comoros - sixty-six were reportedly French.
The airbus was flying from Sanaa to Moroni, the capital of the main island of the Comoros archipelago.
Yemenia spokesman Mohammad al Sumairi said: "The weather conditions were rough - strong wind and high seas.
"The wind speed recorded on land at the airport was 61km (38 miles) an hour. There could be other factors."
Relative of a crash victim A United Nations official at the airport said the control tower had received notification the plane was coming in to land, and then lost contact with it.
But a Comoros police official revealed the survivor was a young child.
The news came amid reports of human remains and debris being spotted by search planes. More than 150 people were on board the jet.
A Yemenia Airways Airbus Two French military planes and a French ship had left the islands of Mayotte and Reunion to search for the Yemenia Airways Airbus A310-300, officials said.
The Comoros foreign ministry said 142 passengers - including three children - and 11 crew were on the flight.
Those on board were nationals from France and Comoros - sixty-six were reportedly French.
The airbus was flying from Sanaa to Moroni, the capital of the main island of the Comoros archipelago.
Yemenia spokesman Mohammad al Sumairi said: "The weather conditions were rough - strong wind and high seas.
"The wind speed recorded on land at the airport was 61km (38 miles) an hour. There could be other factors."
Relative of a crash victim A United Nations official at the airport said the control tower had received notification the plane was coming in to land, and then lost contact with it.
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Desertia:
Without any direct knowledge about this particular airline, I will give you a scenario:
Flight is done in two parts.
First part of flight European skies is done on a A330 which I suspect is in good shape and is acceptable to the French (read EU) authorities.
Once arrived in Sana'a, passengers are transfered to an A310 for the Moroni leg and second part of the flight. This A310 used to fly into Europe, but was "ramp checked" in France (EU) and found not acceptable to continue flights into the EU. Therefore, this A310 only covers destinations that are "friendly"........:
Perhaps that is what this minister was referring to.
Ps: This is a trick that has been used for decades...
Cheers
Colocolo
Without any direct knowledge about this particular airline, I will give you a scenario:
Flight is done in two parts.
First part of flight European skies is done on a A330 which I suspect is in good shape and is acceptable to the French (read EU) authorities.
Once arrived in Sana'a, passengers are transfered to an A310 for the Moroni leg and second part of the flight. This A310 used to fly into Europe, but was "ramp checked" in France (EU) and found not acceptable to continue flights into the EU. Therefore, this A310 only covers destinations that are "friendly"........:
Perhaps that is what this minister was referring to.
Ps: This is a trick that has been used for decades...
Cheers
Colocolo
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EU to blacklist Yemenia Airways
I understood, before this accident happened, the EU was considering to put Yemenia Airways on its blacklist of airlines subject to an operating ban for safety reasons.
Does anybody know on which basis/criteria (which safety issues identified) the EU was going to blacklist Yemenia Airways? SAFA/ramp inspections can identify some problems but should in my opinion never be the sole basis to ground an airline (unless drastic safety issues have been identified which would justify immediate grounding).
I seems likely that the EU will now blacklist Yemenia Airways regardless of the further accident investigation. Although nobody would question the need to ground unsafe airlines, it should at the same time be avoided that politics drives safety issues and that decisions are taken on a subjective basis.
Does anybody know on which basis/criteria (which safety issues identified) the EU was going to blacklist Yemenia Airways? SAFA/ramp inspections can identify some problems but should in my opinion never be the sole basis to ground an airline (unless drastic safety issues have been identified which would justify immediate grounding).
I seems likely that the EU will now blacklist Yemenia Airways regardless of the further accident investigation. Although nobody would question the need to ground unsafe airlines, it should at the same time be avoided that politics drives safety issues and that decisions are taken on a subjective basis.
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Yes I know they are still allowed to fly to the EU. The issue is that, before this happened, they were going to be heard by the EU Air Safety Committee with a possibility that the might be banned in the future.
I suspect, as result of this accident, that this possibility will not become very likely..
I suspect, as result of this accident, that this possibility will not become very likely..
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Missing PAPI for Rwy 20
Looking at the charts of FMCH (post#22), while a 3 degree PAPI is installed on Rwy 02, Rwy 20 has no PAPI. Given the actual wind conditions, this circling with prescribed flight tracks calls for trouble during a night approach...
Wonder why they have chosen to put the PAPI on 02 ISOF 20 ?
FI
Wonder why they have chosen to put the PAPI on 02 ISOF 20 ?
FI
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@ cocolo:
Yes, on the basis of one (serious) newspaper report at least:
Yes, on the basis of one (serious) newspaper report at least:
Lundi soir, un Airbus A330-200 a décollé de Roissy, pour faire escale à Marseille, puis à Sanaa au Yémen, où les passagers ont changé d'appareil pour embarquer à bord d'un Airbus A310.
Au moins un survivant après le crash au large des Comores - Société - Le Monde.fr
Au moins un survivant après le crash au large des Comores - Société - Le Monde.fr
I Have Control
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Safety
The Yemenia crews certainly seemed to have problems understanding ATC instructions at LHR, whenever I encountered them. Lots of repeated communications were required to keep these folks in good order. Perhaps just sub-par English language skills on their part. Not a good thing though.
Is it fair to suggest that some airlines are safer than others? (Or is this non-PC?)
Is it fair to suggest that some airlines are safer than others? (Or is this non-PC?)
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Safety equipment for babys & toddlers aboard a310 ?
"The weather conditions were rough - strong wind and high seas.
"The wind speed recorded on land at the airport was 61km (38 miles) an hour.
If the reports are correct of a child having survived this incident then i cannot see how with the above weather conditions unless the child was wearing some sort of inflatable life vest or in a floating cot ?
But if so that would mean either the passengers knew they where in serious trouble and had been told by there captain they where ditching or one very anxious mother was'nt taking any chances ?
so i was wondering do they have inflatable life vests /cots for children ie toddlers onboard this type of airbus ?
I know the policy on most uk airlines is child under 2 on parents lap and child over 2 years has to have own seat .
But Surely an adult life vest would be much too big for a child between the ages of say 2 years to 7 years ?
do they have something on board specifically for that age group ?
"The wind speed recorded on land at the airport was 61km (38 miles) an hour.
If the reports are correct of a child having survived this incident then i cannot see how with the above weather conditions unless the child was wearing some sort of inflatable life vest or in a floating cot ?
But if so that would mean either the passengers knew they where in serious trouble and had been told by there captain they where ditching or one very anxious mother was'nt taking any chances ?
so i was wondering do they have inflatable life vests /cots for children ie toddlers onboard this type of airbus ?
I know the policy on most uk airlines is child under 2 on parents lap and child over 2 years has to have own seat .
But Surely an adult life vest would be much too big for a child between the ages of say 2 years to 7 years ?
do they have something on board specifically for that age group ?
Eight Gun Fighter
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Infant Life Vests are manufactured. I would assume Yemenia would have some on board. However they are not stowed under the seat and unlesss flt. atts. were in the habit of putting one in the child's seat pocket at boarding, how could they be accessed in a real emergency?
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That's a pretty emotional first post.
The fact that an airframe is 19 years old does not mean that it is automatically ready for the scrap heap. There are many commercial aircraft older than this that are still in use and perfectly safe to fly. How old was Concorde when retired? How old are the NASA shuttles?
The keyword is 'maintenance'. Saudia is a half partner in Yemenia. Saudia's safety record is second to none and I would seriously doubt that they would put it on the line.
The fact that an airframe is 19 years old does not mean that it is automatically ready for the scrap heap. There are many commercial aircraft older than this that are still in use and perfectly safe to fly. How old was Concorde when retired? How old are the NASA shuttles?
The keyword is 'maintenance'. Saudia is a half partner in Yemenia. Saudia's safety record is second to none and I would seriously doubt that they would put it on the line.
Here, a news channel (Globo) is reporting that there was some sort of passenger's organization that has been complaining about the lack of adequate maintenance by Yemenia, and had scheduled *before the crash* some sort of protest against the company in France. Cannot confirm that from any other source yet.
FX Guru
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Latest I see on the wires is that there were 66 French nationals out of 153 on board. It was item number 2 on the beeb news at 0600 local this morning, don't know about subsequently.
A boy of five has been rescued. WX was not good, with wind speed at the airport of 61 kph and a rough sea.
The French transport minister says Yemenia was not on a blacklist but was subject to stricter checks and was to be interviewed by the EU safety committee.
Yemen's transport minister says the plane thoroughly examined in May.
A boy of five has been rescued. WX was not good, with wind speed at the airport of 61 kph and a rough sea.
The French transport minister says Yemenia was not on a blacklist but was subject to stricter checks and was to be interviewed by the EU safety committee.
Yemen's transport minister says the plane thoroughly examined in May.
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Just seen a report that the crash location is '9.2 miles north of Comoros Island and 20 miles from the airport'.
Meanwhile, I note that all the usual prejudices are coming out - not a European, North American or Australian airline therefore 'must be unsafe'. Aircraft is 19 years old so 'should not have been flying' and so on.
I note that Yemenia has a current IOSA audit (valid to June 2010).
Meanwhile, I note that all the usual prejudices are coming out - not a European, North American or Australian airline therefore 'must be unsafe'. Aircraft is 19 years old so 'should not have been flying' and so on.
I note that Yemenia has a current IOSA audit (valid to June 2010).
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Difficult Airport
I last flew to Moroni just last week and we approached from runway 20. Winds weren't so bad that day, but on the previous time I flew there about 6 weeks ago, the winds were favouring runway 02 so we came in on the ILS. The turbulence on the approach was so severe we had to disconnect the autopilot and fly manually and the winds weren't even that strong. It was largely due to the hills sitting on the right side of the approach into runway 02 (or the left side when you are coming on on runway 20) and windshear is always a factor you have to contend with in
Moroni. The approach into runway 20 is anything but a straight in approach. There is no such thing as a 10 mile or even 5 mile straight in approach because of the hills to your left. You are doing a visual approach from right base and constantly turning to align yourself with the runway and only the last mile or so are you actually completely aligned with the runway. Because of this, my company has designated Moroni as a 'difficult airport' and we are only allowed to fly there during the day, and before we are allowed to operate there, we have to undergo special training with an instructor captain, i.e. both the captain and first officer have to go through this 'difficult airport' training. The thought of going there at night just makes me shudder.
Moroni. The approach into runway 20 is anything but a straight in approach. There is no such thing as a 10 mile or even 5 mile straight in approach because of the hills to your left. You are doing a visual approach from right base and constantly turning to align yourself with the runway and only the last mile or so are you actually completely aligned with the runway. Because of this, my company has designated Moroni as a 'difficult airport' and we are only allowed to fly there during the day, and before we are allowed to operate there, we have to undergo special training with an instructor captain, i.e. both the captain and first officer have to go through this 'difficult airport' training. The thought of going there at night just makes me shudder.
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Infant lifejackets will almost certainly have been onboard although in any airline I have worked with they have not been given out to parents unless it is a premeditated ditching.They are stowed in a locker with other emergency equitment. Unless they knew they were ditching I would have thought it unlikely the child was wearing an INFANT lifejacket. The parent may have made the decision to put an adult lifejacket on the child and depending on age/size of the child it may have been ok. Adult lifejackets can be used on a child by inflating before ditching and then deflating it slighty and tieing the tapes acroos the chest and then behind the childs back.
Nothing short of a miracle that the child survived. Very sad indeed the loss of another aircraft regardless of where the plane was from and nationalities onboard.
Nothing short of a miracle that the child survived. Very sad indeed the loss of another aircraft regardless of where the plane was from and nationalities onboard.
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MrNosy2
About "not a European, North American or Australian airline therefore 'must be unsafe"
Give us the statistics which show that Afircan, Middle Eastern or Latin American airlines are more safe than the above, and I'll listen to you.
Give us the statistics which show that Afircan, Middle Eastern or Latin American airlines are more safe than the above, and I'll listen to you.