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Pprune should go

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Pprune should go

Old 5th Apr 2001, 08:30
  #21 (permalink)  
Notso Fantastic
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Bus429,
Once again pprune is subject to your childish, obscure and unwelcome contributions. This is a Professional Pilots Network. Your excessive and outrageous anti-pilot opinions are not wanted. What with you and Guvnor, you are the reason people want to restrict access to flyers only. With a little worldliness, you might know that 'codswallop' means nothing to non Brits. You don't have to express an opinion on everything where you can get an anti-pilot angle in. Give it a rest!
 
Old 5th Apr 2001, 09:00
  #22 (permalink)  
stevemd11
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Talking

I have the perfect test for any real airline pilot:

1. When is the last time you bought a newspaper?
2. Show me hotel pen?
3. How big is your watch?

Used on jump seat riders: does get some funny looks ;-*/
Actually stolen from a Southwest pilot. ;-*))
 
Old 5th Apr 2001, 09:31
  #23 (permalink)  
Bus429
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Wink

Notsofantastic - see, I've done it again!
It is so easy to wind up up some of the professionals who should know better.
This is a silly post, anyway.

------------------
Bus429 - the pilot's pal!
 
Old 5th Apr 2001, 09:50
  #24 (permalink)  
Ignition Override
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Cool

Secret Squirrel and other foreigners (non-US), say what needs to be said about our paradoxical country-I'll be one of the first to admit that the US has tons of very serious problems. Luckily, no other powerful nation has such major problems and contradictions.

Maybe by providing examples and detached information without sweeping generalizations, this can allow some fellow countrymen to take things less personally, and fewer negative reactions might occur?

On foreign travel, heck, when mijn vrouw (wife)/mon femme/meine liebe (dear) Frau and I fly KLM on vacation to Europe each year (probably to London this summer), we are maybe in a minority of US travelers partly due to an awareness of the sometimes indifferent and/or intentionally ignorant Americans who don't even attempt to say "good day", "thank you" in the local language upon entering a shop or "mag ik betalen?/l' addition s.v.p." when trying to pay for dinner etc.

But luckily, all the people out in PpruneLand from other countries are well-versed in such necessary phrases and local customs. Only Americans tend to be in the dark.

On the other hand, people from other countries also return drunk [on Corsendonk] to a Haarlem, Netherlands hotel at 3 AM and wake people up for a bit. And those can be English (as they were that night) or any other accents.

If people in any country in the "west" have a monopoly on good manners, whether besoffen or sober, I'd be interested to know which.

But shouldn't Pprune be an aviation forum, detached from personal politics? I still do not understood how we as individual airline employees (staff) are solely responsible for determining foreign relations within our respective governments. Maybe someone will explain how any of us can change our governments' foreign policies.

[This message has been edited by Ignition Override (edited 05 April 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Ignition Override (edited 05 April 2001).]
 
Old 5th Apr 2001, 11:10
  #25 (permalink)  
The Guvnor
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Cool

Having come under more than my fair share of unwarranted and vicious flak - most of it from anonymous posters with multiple identities - I'd be the first to agree that somewhat tighter control does need to be taken by the moderators when postings get to the libellous level.

Should PPRuNe be shut down, though? No way! This is an informative, very often amusing and frequently highly relevant forum.

Through PPRuNe, I have encountered some of the most interesting and helpful people I know. I've had many great days and evenings with them; and a number have worked very closely with me on various projects.

Danny and his team, on balance, do a first class job considering that they all have 'day jobs' and are unpaid for their huge efforts.

As for the often blatant nationalism - I think we're all guilty of that at various times ... certainly I have been very voiciferous in my opposition to non EU airlines (and crews) operating within the EU and taking EU pilots' jobs. Is there anything wrong with that?

Long live PPRuNe!
 
Old 5th Apr 2001, 13:26
  #26 (permalink)  
Mole Muncher
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Why doesn't danny insist upon individual identification at sign up?
He can it make so that only he has access to this information thus keeping the site anonymous. He can then assure us all of our privacy but with the caveat that if he is approached by a legal body and is threatened with legal action then identities could be released.
I think this would surely protect him from being sued. Peoples posts would remain fun and controversial but the serious slander, personal barbecues and libelous statements would stop.
 
Old 5th Apr 2001, 16:20
  #27 (permalink)  
calltheball
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fish

After years of reading Pprune without ever commenting -I feel now is the time. The usefulness of a site like this cannot be overstated. It has served me well, keeping me in touch with a wide range of opinions (some I agree with, others not) from a variety of pepole within the aviation world. Personally, I feel the site is as relevant to me now I'm employed in the industry as it ever was when I was training or desperately seeking my first job. At times the discussions become heated and an injection of humour doesn't hurt, but so long as the basic guidelines are followed (no libel, slander etc) the site can only be a positive platform for free speech. Yes, there will always be a minority who try to ruin it for others and yes there will always those who can't accept the views (again slander/libel aside) expressed here. However these people have a free choice. It is a simple one best expressed by clicking on the little cross in the top right hand corner of the screen...
This is a very wide ranging profession, employing people from a wide range of backgrounds and cultures, it should not be suprising therefore that such different views are expressed, and moreso they should be encouraged as MOST have something decent to contribute -with the moderators ensuring the small minority don't ruin the site.

Soapbox back under dustsheet.......
 
Old 5th Apr 2001, 16:42
  #28 (permalink)  
LittleBubba
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Hey Guv, that's a good one, "most of it from anonymous posters with multiple identities".
LOL

Remember this other one,

"Username: Lawyergal
Posted 12-05-00 16:36 and read 1398 times.
I'm not involved in the Caledonian Wings project, but I am a keen aviator and also a commercial solicitor (lawyer) with a past involvement in libel"

By the way, how is your airline coming along (the one you are not involved in)....
 
Old 5th Apr 2001, 18:37
  #29 (permalink)  
Moonbeam Purple
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Cool

Qoute:

Danny and his team, on balance, do a first class job considering that they all have 'day jobs' and are unpaid for their huge efforts.

End qoute.

Of course they are doing a great job running this site. Nobody comes even close.

Unpaid for? Well I wouldn't feel so sorry for the guys - if it's true what Danny says, that PPRUNE has more than 10 million hits every month, and nearly 30000 members online, then the minimum monthly income from small banner-advertisements should average more than 10.000.

MP
 
Old 5th Apr 2001, 20:05
  #30 (permalink)  
Raw Data
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Unsurprising, I suppose, that LittleBubba should so effectively prove the point. Just couldn't resist taking a pop an the Guvnor, could you? Even in the midst of a discussion about abusing others on PPRuNe. Just as well the Guv has rhinocheros skin! Interesting, too, that this topic degenerated into name calling within only a few posts.

Anyway, the point is that the issues raised are PEOPLE issues. Nothing to do with pilots or non-pilots. A simple dynamic that operates in any large group of people, exacerbated by the anonymity of it all.

I dislike the anonymity, mainly because it allows cowards and other morally bankrupt people to take shots at others with impunity. Sometimes they do it to make a point, but more often they simply want to inflict hurt on someone from the anonymity of their PC. Another sad, but predictable human trait that goes with the safety of anonymity. Some of us aren't anonymous, which raises other problems!

Of course, PPRuNe would simply not work WITHOUT anonymity. And we are the worse for it.

I quite believe Choomi Noboff, mainly because I have seen similar effects on a colleague of mine. The worst confidence-killer is thinking your peers despise you.

Regarding content, the bottom line is that it is Dannys toy and he can moderate as he sees fit. I reckon he gets it right 99% of the time, as I am sure most folk do because they all keep coming back! The only bit of content I don't like is the rapidly-proliferating advertising which slows the experience down somewhat.

Some of us like reasoned debate. To many, it is a pastime in itself- I really enjoyed the religious debate we had a while back because it brought so many thinking people out of the woodwork, and resulted in an absorbing and intelligent (for the most part) debate. And it wasn't even about flying!

Anyway, if you are waiting for the idiots to leave, you'll be waiting a long time. They'll hang around until the forum is nearly dead, and, like rats leaving a sinking ship, they will then desert. Human nature again.

Regarding our professional image, that is long gone in most peoples eyes these days anyway. Anyone who is internet-aware will know that these sorts of heated discussions take place on all forums, across the board of professions and interests. The motorcycle forums I belong to are far worse when it comes to abuse. No, if you are going to embrace the internet, you have to accept anarchy as a de-facto standard.

Where does that leave us? PPRuNe will continue, I should think, for a long time. Accept it for what it is, accept its' limitations, and the limitations of the contributors here. It is still very much a minority of the flying profession represented here. Maybe- just maybe- some of the more intelligent lurkers will jump a little harder on the idiots out there. Self-regulation is the only effective solution.

All good fun...!!!

[This message has been edited by Raw Data (edited 05 April 2001).]
 
Old 5th Apr 2001, 20:47
  #31 (permalink)  
Captain Anchovy
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Rabbit

You seem to be forgetting that the majority of people who work in aviation are not pilots.If it wasn`t for those of us who work in Ops,Crewing,Engineering etc etc,you would get nowhere-very fast!!Therefore a forum like pprune should be made available to those of us who don`t fly-and as for your idea about making this site for pilots only,this could end up being the most boring website imaginable!

CA
 
Old 5th Apr 2001, 22:31
  #32 (permalink)  
400Skipper
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Wink

Upgrade:

You don't spend much time in the cockpit, do you?
 
Old 6th Apr 2001, 01:31
  #33 (permalink)  
kissah55
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Thumbs up

i cant help but agree with you, but this is the real world buddy, and like all professions there will be the odd few who bring us down.
 
Old 6th Apr 2001, 01:52
  #34 (permalink)  
Trislander
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UPGRADE
If you don't think this website is any good (your opinion of which is very wrong) then why bother coming here? Go and see Ron Chonner if you don't like PPRuNe. I think that PPRuNe is the best aviation website I have been to and it has helped me a lot. At least BA have some class compared to some of your biggest airlines.
And ok, so sometimes someone posts a silly thread, but you don't have to read it if you think its dumb.

You are the weakest link, Goodbye !!!!!!!
 
Old 6th Apr 2001, 02:48
  #35 (permalink)  
dallas dude
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Crikey....we've got the weakest link coming over here in 10 days (and to think I used to have rude thoughts about Ann Robinson).

All.....whether you agree or disagree with any postings on our beloved Pprune, think of what a part of our daily/weekly lives it has become. Think of all the chores our partners would have for us if we weren't so busy here!

Keep it like it is. Grateful thanks to Danny and his team of helpers.

Personally, I enjoy the mental sparring with certain folks. I sometimes wish I could buy members a pint/litre and chat face to face in a similar tone, even if we are polar opposites. Just to find out what makes 'em tick (or see what planet they're from).

I believe (most of the time) that responses should be addressed in a "pub type"
manner (but not if the pub's on the Fulham Rd and Chelsea have just lost). Feel free to remind me if I forget this next time I reply to you.

Cheers,dd.
 
Old 6th Apr 2001, 05:19
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Moonbeam,

Income for the site is less than a tenth of what you surmise and every penny goes to pay for the server and software. No administrator or moderator gets a cent - not even phone bills covered.

Each time we upgrade the server due to traffic we're already speccing, costing and working on the next. European figures show overall internet traffic doubling every hundred days at the moment and Chinese is just about to become the majority language in terms of throughput.

We watch all this very warily as the next logical step in hardware and bandwidth puts us into the 5,000 USD per month league for costs. Crashdive is busy doing some extremely lateral thinking and coding to see if we can put this off for as long as possible by creating an entirely different concept in bulletin board software.

Alternatively we can charge for the site - we reckon that in a couple of months we could run the place on the old 386 I've got in the garage.

Regards from the Towers
Rob Lloyd
[email protected]
PPRuNe Towers is offline  
Old 6th Apr 2001, 17:23
  #37 (permalink)  
Moonbeam Purple
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Towers, Come on - 30000 members and 10 million hits a month, income less that a 1000 quit a month - you gotta be kidding us!

However if you're right(of course you are!), I would start charging a lot more for those banners, or even better, I would contact a professional marketing company right away, and let them run this banner business.

The banners are not gonna disappear in the future, unless the members will have to pay for using this page, you gave the answer yourself to this idea - not good!

So why not get the most out these banners right away. With professional help you wouldn't have to think about how to finance the state of art server solution, and further more, if you continue to do this work without any pay as you say you do, you would have plenty of money to sponsor a great deal of PPRUNE Bashes, a great deal of wannabees, on top of the costs for the server. So what are you waiting for?

Best Rgrds

Moonbeam
 
Old 6th Apr 2001, 18:25
  #38 (permalink)  
dallas dude
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Moonbeam,

How about getting your checkbook out and sending Danny a donation?

Money talks,BS walks.

dd

 
Old 6th Apr 2001, 19:18
  #39 (permalink)  
Moonbeam Purple
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Smile

Well dd, maybe that's how you do business in the States, I don't care!

I just gave my 2p worth. If Danny and his friends wanna let go of several thousand punds every single month, you and I can't help it!

PPRUNE has become a golden egg, because of the huge work and the considerable amount of money, that Danny and his Gang puts into it - but why not take advantage of it, when it is possible!

If Danny & Co. doesn't wanna make a living out of it, fine - that's really up to them to decide, cus it's their work, their money and their idea! But if they have decided to keep it as a hobby, at least the operating costs, plus the other things mentioned above, could then easily be sponsered by banners, and none would have to pay or donate anything out of their own pocket for visiting this wonderfull place!

Keep up the good work!

Over and out

MP
 
Old 6th Apr 2001, 19:28
  #40 (permalink)  
twistedenginestarter
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You want to criticize PPRUNE???

I'll see you outside in the car park.

However be warned I've got 28,773 friends.

 

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