U.S. Navy EP-3 forced down by Chinese
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U.S. Navy EP-3 forced down by Chinese
Surely there must be some interest about the top story in the world news -- that of a U.S. Navy EP-3 Airies II spy plane forced down with 24 crewmen aboard after a collision with a Chinese fighter.
The navy plane landed on the Chinese island of Hainan. The Chinese F-8 (Jian-8) apparently went down after the collision.
Both sides blame each other. The American crew reportedly has been isolated. The Chinese reportedly are crawling all over the place gathering information on all the latest in electronic listening devices.
This happened on Sunday. I've searched and searched, but could not find anything on PPRune.
The navy plane landed on the Chinese island of Hainan. The Chinese F-8 (Jian-8) apparently went down after the collision.
Both sides blame each other. The American crew reportedly has been isolated. The Chinese reportedly are crawling all over the place gathering information on all the latest in electronic listening devices.
This happened on Sunday. I've searched and searched, but could not find anything on PPRune.
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There's a thread on the Mil forum at:
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/For...ML/001414.html
One thought of mine... ok it's a military item, but nevertheless a US aircraft has been involved in a serious, possibly fatal, incident. How can the US possibly take the position that the EP-3 is 'sovereign US territory', not to be touched? Do they expect that the Chinese will carry out no investigation whatever? Surely they have every right to do so...?
OK tounge slightly in cheek there, this is the Chinese, this is realpolitik, but it's still a bloody arrogant thing to say...
I suppose the Americans promptly returned every aircraft that cold-war era defectors flew to the West, intact and uninspected...!
Yeah, right.
Ranger One
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/For...ML/001414.html
One thought of mine... ok it's a military item, but nevertheless a US aircraft has been involved in a serious, possibly fatal, incident. How can the US possibly take the position that the EP-3 is 'sovereign US territory', not to be touched? Do they expect that the Chinese will carry out no investigation whatever? Surely they have every right to do so...?
OK tounge slightly in cheek there, this is the Chinese, this is realpolitik, but it's still a bloody arrogant thing to say...
I suppose the Americans promptly returned every aircraft that cold-war era defectors flew to the West, intact and uninspected...!
Yeah, right.
Ranger One
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Maybe the Dept. of Defense will now decide to give each "interned" EP-3 enlisted crewmember the same per diem as is given to officers, for a change. Or even a nice re-enlistmemt bonus for those at the end of their active duty tour. Or are any in the Navy Reserve etc?
Let's hope that the crewmembers are treated well and their families have excellent support.
Let's hope that the crewmembers are treated well and their families have excellent support.
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I`d like to see the reaction from the US media and population if this was a Chinese spy plane flying on the " edge " of US Domestic Airspace that collided with an American fighter plane......
I thought American forces pilots were trained in formation flying ? ( tongue in cheek ) Cheers
I thought American forces pilots were trained in formation flying ? ( tongue in cheek ) Cheers
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You can get pictures on the following site:
www.airliners.net
Go to the keyword search bit, type in ep-3, click "civil and military" under it and you'll get some pictures and descriptions of the Orion. Just about any aircraft can be found on this site. I just wish I could get them to accept some of my photos !
www.airliners.net
Go to the keyword search bit, type in ep-3, click "civil and military" under it and you'll get some pictures and descriptions of the Orion. Just about any aircraft can be found on this site. I just wish I could get them to accept some of my photos !
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Straits Times giving good coverage, including maps and photos:
http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/asi...,34316,00.html
and some other links from the area:
http://www.atimes.com/editor/CD03Ba01.html
http://www.atimes.com/china/CD03Ad02.html
http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/asi...,34316,00.html
and some other links from the area:
http://www.atimes.com/editor/CD03Ba01.html
http://www.atimes.com/china/CD03Ad02.html
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NOT THE SAME DUCK -
In 1974, the Russians had a single-seater get lost & land in the Aleutian Islands of Alaska. It was surrounded by a National Guard unit. The crew was catered to, the aircraft was refueled & with a brief diplomatic exchange, allowed to return.
The bad news was that the DEW Line radar never picked it up.
If the roles were reversed in this latest incident, the U.S. would apologize, repair the aircraft and court-martial the unit commander for the interceptor fighters.
In 1974, the Russians had a single-seater get lost & land in the Aleutian Islands of Alaska. It was surrounded by a National Guard unit. The crew was catered to, the aircraft was refueled & with a brief diplomatic exchange, allowed to return.
The bad news was that the DEW Line radar never picked it up.
If the roles were reversed in this latest incident, the U.S. would apologize, repair the aircraft and court-martial the unit commander for the interceptor fighters.
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SkyDrifter said:
"If the roles were reversed in this latest incident, the U.S. would apologize, repair the aircraft and court-martial the unit commander for the interceptor fighters."
AND they will give medals to the Chinese air-crew for out-standing airmanship as well.
"If the roles were reversed in this latest incident, the U.S. would apologize, repair the aircraft and court-martial the unit commander for the interceptor fighters."
AND they will give medals to the Chinese air-crew for out-standing airmanship as well.
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I'd like to make a 50-50 bet that the Chinese F-8 (J-8) interceptor pilot never went down in the drink. The Taiwanese, who were watching all of this on radar, never mentioned that one "blip" went missing after the contact was made.
Also, other sources say that interceptor No. 2 fired accross the EC-3s bow to make it "follow me" to Hainan Island. So what's this bull s*it the Chinese are saying about "illegally" invading their territory.
Tom Clancy could not have put it beeter. The whole incident seems like it was planned, at least to some extent.
Also, other sources say that interceptor No. 2 fired accross the EC-3s bow to make it "follow me" to Hainan Island. So what's this bull s*it the Chinese are saying about "illegally" invading their territory.
Tom Clancy could not have put it beeter. The whole incident seems like it was planned, at least to some extent.
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Skydrifter - You may also remember the early 80's case od a Rusiian fighter that defected to Japan. The Russkies asked for the a/c back - the US gave it back....after 4 days during which time they had stripped the a/c down to its component parts, measured, photographed and recorded the same and then rebuilt it.
Lets also not forget the fact that throughout the cold war, various USAF and RAF repeatedly violated USSR airspace (and Im talking about flights OVER towns like Kiev and Minsk not just brief forays into contested airspace). How would you feel if their Bears had overflown Newcastle or Boston?
Me, Im no Sino lover or repecter of their Human Rights record, but I am finding this very amusing.
Lets also not forget the fact that throughout the cold war, various USAF and RAF repeatedly violated USSR airspace (and Im talking about flights OVER towns like Kiev and Minsk not just brief forays into contested airspace). How would you feel if their Bears had overflown Newcastle or Boston?
Me, Im no Sino lover or repecter of their Human Rights record, but I am finding this very amusing.
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The Americans of course expect their aircraft to be treated with the same respect that they treated the MiG 25 that defected to Japan a few years ago.
As they say, 'What goes round comes round'. Poetic justice I feel.
As for the 'secrets', they belong to the Chinese in the first place. Its how they are gathered that's making the Americans nervous.
What makes me nervous, is Bush. I bet he knows where China is . . by now.
As they say, 'What goes round comes round'. Poetic justice I feel.
As for the 'secrets', they belong to the Chinese in the first place. Its how they are gathered that's making the Americans nervous.
What makes me nervous, is Bush. I bet he knows where China is . . by now.
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One of Many,
Poetic Justice?? I'm glad so many of you find this entertaining, You seem to all revel in watching America get pissed on! Sad, Lets see who you expect to help you in your time of need. Don't wait for the Chinese to come......and the other guy who likes to make fun of US pilots who "Cant fly formation" where did you get your formation training at?
Poetic Justice?? I'm glad so many of you find this entertaining, You seem to all revel in watching America get pissed on! Sad, Lets see who you expect to help you in your time of need. Don't wait for the Chinese to come......and the other guy who likes to make fun of US pilots who "Cant fly formation" where did you get your formation training at?
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In the 50s and 60s, I have read, the Americans, although denying it, had to cross into Soviet or Chinese territory with the Orion to get a feed-back on the defense radar and then hurry back out again. Back then, radar was short range.
The USN and USAF were particularly active in Eastern Russia and also the Baltics, one shot down over Liepaja, Latvia, where recently there was a ceremony honoring the American crewmen who vanished off the face of the Earth, although some residents saw full chutes dropping down.
I wrote a news story about this in the mid-60s and as I remember it involved at least six incidents of U.S. intelligence planes coming in contact with MiG-15s to MiG-19s at the time. Most of those air crews also vanished.
Today, with all the modern equipment, we don't have to cross a nation's border to find out how fast they will respond or what we want to find out.
I firmly believe that the EC-3 was in international waters and this was a set-up by the Chinese. For goodness sake, we all have spy planes. Take a look at your own -- the Nimrod.
Iceland won the fishing war against the U.K. in the 70s, despite the Nimrod.
The USN and USAF were particularly active in Eastern Russia and also the Baltics, one shot down over Liepaja, Latvia, where recently there was a ceremony honoring the American crewmen who vanished off the face of the Earth, although some residents saw full chutes dropping down.
I wrote a news story about this in the mid-60s and as I remember it involved at least six incidents of U.S. intelligence planes coming in contact with MiG-15s to MiG-19s at the time. Most of those air crews also vanished.
Today, with all the modern equipment, we don't have to cross a nation's border to find out how fast they will respond or what we want to find out.
I firmly believe that the EC-3 was in international waters and this was a set-up by the Chinese. For goodness sake, we all have spy planes. Take a look at your own -- the Nimrod.
Iceland won the fishing war against the U.K. in the 70s, despite the Nimrod.
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If anybody has the time, read Seawolf by Patrick Robinson (isbn 0-09-940526-1). The parallel to the ep-3 incident is uncanny. There is a definite bad feeling about this, does Bush (and his Senate) have the expirience to deal with this. I hope the boys and girls on EP-3 had a sledghammer before the chinese got to the aircraft.
Regards to all
Wide
Regards to all
Wide
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Latvia, our news said last night that since the fifties the US has lost twenty one aircraft and one hundred and thirty four crew to spy missions. I mean lost without a trace. They showed an RB-50, supposedly the first loss, that had been based in either Iran or Turkey.
Wide Body, I think you may be right about President Bush lacking in "international experience." His critics gleefully point that out at every opportunity, but he does have some pretty heavy hitters to call upon. Powell and Cheney come to mind.
One other thing the Chinese should also keep in the back of their minds. They want to join the WTO and they want to hold the 2008 Olympics. They'll do neither without US agreement.
[This message has been edited by pigboat (edited 03 April 2001).]
Wide Body, I think you may be right about President Bush lacking in "international experience." His critics gleefully point that out at every opportunity, but he does have some pretty heavy hitters to call upon. Powell and Cheney come to mind.
One other thing the Chinese should also keep in the back of their minds. They want to join the WTO and they want to hold the 2008 Olympics. They'll do neither without US agreement.
[This message has been edited by pigboat (edited 03 April 2001).]