LHR new security dictat

[Max Angle]

Why is it considered Ok for one set of crew and not another?

Because the BAA and the people at the DfT who supervise their security operations are a complete bunch of idiots who don't have the first idea what they are doing.

[sweetie76]

UNB5

Judging by the responses so far (some more responsible than others), this DfT 'initiative' is seen for what it is: an ill-thought and ill-conceived idea which is completely unworkable.

It smacks of vindictiveness disguised as the DfT doing its bit to ensure we are safe from ourselves.

It's really up to our respective managers to get this new ruling consigned to the bin where it belongs or, at least, to apply the policy only to those who would cheat the system.

Can you see anyone standing up to the DfT?

[Ex Cargo Clown]

I've still yet to see any firm evidence of why liquids are seen as the only way to cause an explosion onboard an aircraft. It's absolutely ludicrous.

Clearly Class 4 DG do not exist and in no way can solids possibly be flammable, oh and of course there are absolutely no solid oxidising agents either.

The whole "security" system is farcical, and the liquid ban is just indicative of the lunatics who are running the whole fiasco.

[411A]

would you be happy to lose your livelihood because a young, cabin-crew member decides to smuggle that special 150ml bottle of expensive shampoo in his/her cabin bag?

Wouldn't happen at my airline, we have slightly more responsible folks in the CC ranks.
IE; They do what they are told, or are dismissed accordingly.

Simple as that.

And, yes, if I don't like their performance, the CC manager sends 'em a don't come Monday letter, pronto.
At an outstation?
They are dismissed promptly, and can find their own way home.

Therefore, they comply with the rules in force.

Case closed.

[ItsAjob]

As usual the security dept are looking in the rear view mirror instead of the windscreen.
Liquids are a threat of the past. Im sure the bad guys are one step ahead by now and would not even bother with another liquid based threat.

[sweetie76]

411A

Wouldn't happen at my airline, we have slightly more responsible folks in the CC ranks.
IE; They do what they are told, or are dismissed accordingly.


What a lovely, perfect world you live in. Must be wonderful.

btw does 411A relate to the Cessna light twin I used to fly about 30 years ago? (See, I CAN rise to the bait.)

[falcon10]

In continental Europe, the liquid restrictions are in place for pax, but crew do not need to pull out all their liquids from their cabin and/or hold bags. I feel very sorry for my colleagues that operate out of the UK.

Does this apply to deadheading crewmembers?

[411A]

btw does 411A relate to the Cessna light twin I used to fly about 30 years ago?

Yup, I've owned one for twelve years as my personal aeroplane, and delivered several directly from the factory many years ago.
A fine aeroplane, IF flown properly.

Next question?

[wiggy]

OK I'll make my point again - many of us operating out of LHR lost any option to repack liquids into hold baggage several years ago - when this liquids farce first kicked off. Crews checked in their hold baggage well before their handbaggage was screened and we never, ever had the option to repack after handbaggage screening.....so if you accidently had a greater than 100ml container in your carry on baggage then it was confiscated...

If the original post is to be believed all that seems to be happening here is TranSec/Dft are forcing some airline's crews, rightly or wrongly, to fall into line with procedures already in place on parts of the Airport ( at least LHR).

I'm not saying I agree with the current farce over crew and liquids, I think it ****s for the short Haul Boys and Girls, but sorry, I don't see what all the shock and horror is about.

[411A]

...but sorry, I don't see what all the shock and horror is about.

Precisely.

[cgsblue]

The DFT would get absolutely hammered if they ignored this threat!!!

Once got a jar of marmalade refused, had to take it back to my car, otherwise I learn to live with it.

[gtf]

Not flying out of LHR much, so wondering whether the ban is actually enforced there ? Plenty of airports do such a bang up job at enforcing the liquid ban I stopped bothering to adhere to it a long time ago, especially states side.

[wiggy]

gtf

"Not flying out of LHR much, so wondering whether the ban is actually enforced there ?"

To be safe leaving fortress UK assume it always applies to everybody, be it passengers, operating crews and deadheading crews and irrespective of wether you use a passenger or staff screening facility....

[Capt Turbo]

...and now to the lighter side

Scene: LHR post 24, Captain comes with his brand new Taylor Made Driver...

Floor level security man 1 (FLSM 1) - "Wonderfull driver, sir...you cannot take it through here"

Captain (C): "It is going in the hold"

FLSM 1 : "No can do, sir. You have to bring a station person out here to take it to the hold"

C: "You trust the apprentice check-in girl more than me??"

FLSM 1: " Rules!"

C: "Are there any competent security person present here who can quote me the rules on this??"

DEAD SILENCE.....

Floor level security woman 1 (FLSW1): "Donīt be so difficult. Give it up volontarely"

C: "Are you the competent person I was asking for just now? You want to confiscate my club....thatīs not volontarily"

FLSW 1 : talking in her walkie-talkie : " Control 1...Control 1 ...immidiate response....we have a situation....."

Captain calls station on mobile, but being understaffed, the station guys cannot retrieve the club until after departure of the flight.

C:" OK, the station will pick the driver up later. Can you please give me a receit..."

FLSW 1 : " You cannot get a receit as you have turned it in volontarely!"

C: "Did I ask for your opinion?? Now I ask you colleques if sporting equipment is allowed as part of crew baggage in hold...IS IT????"

FLSM 2 + 3: "Yes, sir, but it has to be in a bag!"

C: "So 14 lethal clubs are OK if in a bag...1 driver is not??????"

FLSM 1 + 2 + 3 : "Thatīs right, sir".

At this point captain unzips his big crew suitcase and puts the driver inside with the handle sticking out.

C: "OK guys, problem solved, have a good day..."

FLSM 1: "OH NO...you cannot do that! It is not a golf bag!!!"

C: "Are you the competent person on the rules, or do you just work here?"

FLSW 1 : "Control 1....Control 1 ......We need supervisor backup immidiately!!!! "

Control 1 (on walkie-talkie): "Post 24, he cannot be there until in 30 minutes"

FLSW 1: " You will get a delay out of this, and you are blocking the post"

C: " We have a delay code for crew security harassment and undue delay, and this crew is not moving until all legal crews baggage has been processed!!!!!"

4 pilots + 13 C/A smiling patiently at the FLSM/Ws, who are now appearing quite uneasy.

And then the Upper Level Security Supervisor (ULSS) appears, tweed, moustace and healthy outdoor type (clearly a british golfer).

ULSS: Yes, sir....sporting equipment is allowed. Yes, even one piece. No, sir...the suitcase is not a suitable container. Well, strictly speaking - you are right -it does not need a container....But you could sneak it up in the cockpit...No, sir..I cannot carry...OH, WELL...I will bring it to the aircraft and see it safely on board.....

All faces saved, my Taylor Made made the 12 hour trip on time and the FLSM/W greet me very politely when we meet at post 24.

So now I need to take this fantastic putter.............

[spud]

Did you ever consider not re-electing them?

[Munnyspinner]

Is toothpaste or hairgel safe to have around the house? I'm concerned that if BAA feel that any more than 100ml presents a threat greater than a berserk pilot in charge of a 400tonne 747 then I will keep my supplies under lock and key.

Presumably, there have been a number of attacks involving half used tubes of ******* ( brand sensitive)toothpaste or other dental polish. Surely hallitosis on the flightdeck is a bigger killer?

I have set my 11year old son on mixing toothpaste and other liquids that I would be likley to take on a trip ( safely, at a distanace in the shed) to see if he can concoct anything even mildly explosive.

In fairness to BAA their concern must be that a crew member will smuggle equipment on board to assist a terrorist! Surely if you helping someone blow you out of the sky you would just do the job properly from the front seat ?

It can't be the containers because you can buy what you like airside so is it just another ruse to assist flagging BAA airside sales - never! Apparently T5 airside retail sales are almost half what they should be - now there is a surprise!

[fireflybob]

Did you ever consider not re-electing them?

Often! The lunatics really are running the asylum at the moment.

[ManaAdaSystem]

Not all of us flying in and out of UK are UK crew. I pack my liquids in my overnight bag and bring everything through crew security. It's then placed in the hold. I try not to get a heart attack before I get to the aircraft, so this is what I do.

If one of the hosties violate this procedure, are they going to confiscate my foreign ID? If not, what will be the consequence? Pilota non grata in UK?

I'm not going to defend this new and slightly stricter procedure, but I recently sat for 15 minutes in the crew transport waiting for the crew ahead of us to clear security. A lot of repacking going on.

What kind of liquids are you guys bringing in your pilots bags?

[lsh]

Manchester cargo apron entrance, this week:
Seen written in large black letters on the back of a female security staffs dayglo jacket;

"PIT BULL"

Am I losing my perspective / sense of humour or...........????
lsh

[Munnyspinner]

Was that with or without the lipstick?