EK407 Tailstrike @ ML
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Hey Wiley...
Just a thought...maybe he meant...unpressurized, but not unairconditioned!
Just cause you're not pressurized doesn't mean you're not airconditioned!
i.e., you can run the packs with the outflow valve(s) fully open!
Just a thought,
Cheers...FD...
Just a thought...maybe he meant...unpressurized, but not unairconditioned!
Just cause you're not pressurized doesn't mean you're not airconditioned!
i.e., you can run the packs with the outflow valve(s) fully open!
Just a thought,
Cheers...FD...
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Regarding fuel dumping...
As I understand it, the aircraft does not necessarily have to be over water to safely dump. Most, if not all, of the fuel will simply evaporate when dumped above a couple of thousand feet...
An old, tired Flight Dispatcher...
An old, tired Flight Dispatcher...
o2
411 pressure breathing is not required untll 40,000 feet, where it is essential. There are many aircraft that fly at 30,000 ft unpressurised.
This book is well worth reading:
Fundamentals of Aerospace Medicine By Jeffrey R. Davis, Robert Johnson, Jan Stepanek.
Firewall : Nitrogen narcosis is an effect on the brain of gaseous nitrogen that occurs to divers who go below 100 FSW, due to the laws of partial pressures.
This book is well worth reading:
Fundamentals of Aerospace Medicine By Jeffrey R. Davis, Robert Johnson, Jan Stepanek.
Firewall : Nitrogen narcosis is an effect on the brain of gaseous nitrogen that occurs to divers who go below 100 FSW, due to the laws of partial pressures.
We used to go to 38,000 ft unpressurized and without pressure breathing (H Type mask). Mind you, we weren't up there for very long for the Vampire ran out of fuel very rapidly!
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Flight Detent, I'm quite aware that airconditioning would still be available, but I think the packs would be a tad overwhelmed trying to keep a halfway bearable cabin temperature at 30000'+ if unpressurised, particularly on an extended flight. And a trip to the toilet would be 'interesting', to put it mildly.
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decompression sickness, bends, nitrogen narcosis
I see here some misinformation about the subject and would like to correct it. As a diver I know what is going on in human body with pressure and various gases.
Nitrogen narcosis.
It starts normally at the depths of 30-40m of water. With ambient pressures of 4-5 bar. Narcosis can not happen in flight. Never! narcosis is not related to gaseous nitrogen in brain. If gas appear in your brain you are having serious decompression sickness. It is very serious and life threatening1
Decompression sickness.
Its mild forms are called also bends. If ambient pressure drops too fast, either due to too fast cabin decompression or too fast ascent to surface, nitrogen, dissolved in body tissues starts exit tissues and to create tiny nitrogen bubbles in joints, muscles and if problem is serious in your bloodstream. The result is pain in joints, and numbness and skin iching in less serious forms. Bubbles in bloodstream block bloodsupply and if these bubbles block bloodsupply in heart or brain, result is serious. This will certainly incapacitate just anybody.
There is an important factor - older, less fit, more fat and tired persons are much more prone to decompression sickness than younger, fit, and healthy persons. The difference is remarkable. Really.
When flying at 10000m (was it 36000 foot?) then ambient pressure is approx. 0,27 bar, and using pure oxygene is pretty normal as oxygen partial pressure must not drop below 0,18 bar. Below then hypoxia developes. The problem here is that removing nitrogen part and decreasing ambient pressure to 0,27bar would make the normal, dissolved nitrogen exit tissues quite fast. There is no problem if you breath oxygen at sea level. Problem could arise when ambient pressure is decreased as well. As decreased pressure will force nitrogen out of tissues more rapidly.
Thats why some pilots who fly high, need to breath pure oxygen before flight - to reduce nitrogen, dissolved in tissues, to avoid incapacitating deco sickness.
So, with uncompressed cabin, breathing pure oxygen, flying at normal flight levels is possible, only you must reduce your dissolved nitrogen before flight.
Hope that helps with understanding of deco sickness, partial pressures, nitrogen narcosis. Though I've never seen any deco tables for flightcrew
Nitrogen narcosis.
It starts normally at the depths of 30-40m of water. With ambient pressures of 4-5 bar. Narcosis can not happen in flight. Never! narcosis is not related to gaseous nitrogen in brain. If gas appear in your brain you are having serious decompression sickness. It is very serious and life threatening1
Decompression sickness.
Its mild forms are called also bends. If ambient pressure drops too fast, either due to too fast cabin decompression or too fast ascent to surface, nitrogen, dissolved in body tissues starts exit tissues and to create tiny nitrogen bubbles in joints, muscles and if problem is serious in your bloodstream. The result is pain in joints, and numbness and skin iching in less serious forms. Bubbles in bloodstream block bloodsupply and if these bubbles block bloodsupply in heart or brain, result is serious. This will certainly incapacitate just anybody.
There is an important factor - older, less fit, more fat and tired persons are much more prone to decompression sickness than younger, fit, and healthy persons. The difference is remarkable. Really.
When flying at 10000m (was it 36000 foot?) then ambient pressure is approx. 0,27 bar, and using pure oxygene is pretty normal as oxygen partial pressure must not drop below 0,18 bar. Below then hypoxia developes. The problem here is that removing nitrogen part and decreasing ambient pressure to 0,27bar would make the normal, dissolved nitrogen exit tissues quite fast. There is no problem if you breath oxygen at sea level. Problem could arise when ambient pressure is decreased as well. As decreased pressure will force nitrogen out of tissues more rapidly.
Thats why some pilots who fly high, need to breath pure oxygen before flight - to reduce nitrogen, dissolved in tissues, to avoid incapacitating deco sickness.
So, with uncompressed cabin, breathing pure oxygen, flying at normal flight levels is possible, only you must reduce your dissolved nitrogen before flight.
Hope that helps with understanding of deco sickness, partial pressures, nitrogen narcosis. Though I've never seen any deco tables for flightcrew
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Thats why some pilots who fly high, need to breath pure oxygen before flight - to reduce nitrogen, dissolved in tissues, to avoid incapacitating deco sickness.
So, with uncompressed cabin, breathing pure oxygen, flying at normal flight levels is possible, only you must reduce your dissolved nitrogen before flight.
So, with uncompressed cabin, breathing pure oxygen, flying at normal flight levels is possible, only you must reduce your dissolved nitrogen before flight.
So what would happen if you were at FL310 for example on a cargo flight and had a depressurization and decided to continue on 100% oxygen?
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News Limited newspapers in Australia have an interview with the pilot of EK407 today. Sadly the article doesn't appear to be on their website yet (except referenced in an editorial at Emirates hero | Herald Sun) but here are some snippets:
Realising the plane had not reached a speed high enough to get airborne, and with the end of the runway reapidly approaching, the pilot and co-pilot were desperately checking controls, trying to find the problem.
At the last second, the pilot engaged a rapid acceleration known as TOGA and lifted the plane off the ground.
...
"I think I reacted on instinct," he said. "I had a feeling that (something) wasn't working, but I couldn't find out what was wrong. I knew I couldn't stop. At that point I knew we just had to go. And we got it off the ground, miraculously."
...
Over a number of interviews the pilot revealed:
At the last second, the pilot engaged a rapid acceleration known as TOGA and lifted the plane off the ground.
...
"I think I reacted on instinct," he said. "I had a feeling that (something) wasn't working, but I couldn't find out what was wrong. I knew I couldn't stop. At that point I knew we just had to go. And we got it off the ground, miraculously."
...
Over a number of interviews the pilot revealed:
- He had slept for only 3.5 hours in the 24 hours before the flight taking off on March 20.
- The brush with death upset him so badly that he did not sleep for four days.
- He and his co-pilot were ordered to resign and handed pre-prepared letters of resignation when they returned to Emirates headquarters.
- He was still so horrified by the incident he could not bear to think about it.
- He needed to find another job, but did not know if he would every fly again.
Here is a link to the complete article in today's newspaper:
Emirates pilot in tail strike near-disaster tells his story | Herald Sun
Emirates pilot in tail strike near-disaster tells his story | Herald Sun
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Hi all!
I read the Herald articles, amazing...
About the repair of the aircraft: someone mentioned that the Qantas B747 cited in the article was repaired because of their will of having an "incident" and not a "loss"...
Could be true to this EK A345 as well?... Repairing for a nice sack of money just to not to have it written off? Is it really reasonable to do this work? What are you, experts thinking about it?
I read the Herald articles, amazing...
About the repair of the aircraft: someone mentioned that the Qantas B747 cited in the article was repaired because of their will of having an "incident" and not a "loss"...
Could be true to this EK A345 as well?... Repairing for a nice sack of money just to not to have it written off? Is it really reasonable to do this work? What are you, experts thinking about it?
Join Date: Feb 2005
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It's a matter of balancing the cost of repair against the aircraft market value after repair. An A340-500/600 still commands a healthy price, right?
...and methinks Airbus Industrie has a nearly new, only slightly used A340 aft end on hand for a quick job...
...and methinks Airbus Industrie has a nearly new, only slightly used A340 aft end on hand for a quick job...
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Indeed, so we sanction cuts & shuts on aircraft now ?
I knew aviation standards world wide were in decline, but I didn't think they had sunk to such low levels yet.
Thank you for informing us so.
I suppose the authorities will accept this hybrid as a "remanufactured" aircraft ?
I wonder which serial and line numbers will it get - the front end numbers, the back end numbers, or a new "third set" ?
I knew aviation standards world wide were in decline, but I didn't think they had sunk to such low levels yet.
Thank you for informing us so.
I suppose the authorities will accept this hybrid as a "remanufactured" aircraft ?
I wonder which serial and line numbers will it get - the front end numbers, the back end numbers, or a new "third set" ?
Join Date: May 2008
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Finally the perfect melting-pot!!
The ultimate Etihad of Emirates, to create a Phoenix called Airbus A340-550, front from EK, rear from EY.
Dear Sheikies, did it really have to take two screw-ups to show you the way?
The ultimate Etihad of Emirates, to create a Phoenix called Airbus A340-550, front from EK, rear from EY.
Dear Sheikies, did it really have to take two screw-ups to show you the way?
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Hahaha, really, there's an A346 aft part in the cupboard at Airbus' Toulouse facility. 
"Unregistered", search back a little, in June someone mentioned a Herald-article about the repair of this EK A345.
But, i see a problem in this mix of Etihad and Emirates aircraft parts: A345 is 17.1 m (56 ft 1 in) tall, and A346 is 17.3 m (56 ft 9 in)... i suppose because of the different moment arm - because of the different lenght.
So the 2 aircraft part is not compatible to each other... Or?
Anyway, for a joke, it was really nice, but i should kill it with these inches.
"Unregistered", search back a little, in June someone mentioned a Herald-article about the repair of this EK A345.
But, i see a problem in this mix of Etihad and Emirates aircraft parts: A345 is 17.1 m (56 ft 1 in) tall, and A346 is 17.3 m (56 ft 9 in)... i suppose because of the different moment arm - because of the different lenght.
So the 2 aircraft part is not compatible to each other... Or?
Anyway, for a joke, it was really nice, but i should kill it with these inches.
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Interesting to contemplate a cut and shunt of a Eithad rear onto an EK head... such a graft wouldn't last long as they would head off in opposite directions before long... Probably be a case of the tail wagging the cockpit anyway.