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Flights at risk as pilots refuse to accept 'demeaning' ID cards

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Flights at risk as pilots refuse to accept 'demeaning' ID cards

Old 22nd Jun 2009, 09:50
  #241 (permalink)  
S78
 
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The cost of ID cards: £2,857 each - Yahoo! News UK




S78
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Old 23rd Jun 2009, 22:06
  #242 (permalink)  
 
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Alan Johnson knows that the ID issue will be the final nail in the coffin....He's looking for a way out....Whether or not he'll find it in time is $64,000 question...
Alan Johnson eyes ID card U-turn - Times Online
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Old 24th Jun 2009, 10:06
  #243 (permalink)  
 
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I am sure the French would "down tools" over this matter if they were in our position, and really the whole pilot community should rail against and refuse to accept the ID card, if it is only they who are going to have it. It would be a pity to spoil thousands of people's holidays, business travel etc., and I guess foreign airlines would reap the immediate benefit.

But this is an important question of principle and we should not let ourselves be distracted from the issue. It would be wrong, stupid and discriminatory, and if we have got any character, as a body, we should show that character IF there is no U-turn.

I know this echoes nearly all posters' views, but wanted to add my "voice".

Let's keep hoping sense prevails.

RB
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Old 18th Aug 2009, 10:15
  #244 (permalink)  
 
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Computer says no

Earlier this month, in a landmark ruling made by high court judge, Justice Bill Blair (the brother of the former PM), André Power, a businessman, was denied compensation for a mistake on a court database, a mistake which cost him his business. Whilst the court admits the mistake and does not refute that Mr Power was financially crippled by it, Justice Blair ruled that the civil service cannot be found liable for the damage caused by its record keeping mistakes.

Let me run that by you once again:

The civil service cannot be found liable for the damage caused by its record keeping mistakes.
(Court of Appeal, August 4th 2009).

This means two things are almost guaranteed about the National Identity Register (the database behind ID Cards).

1.There will be a cavalier attitude by those who administer it, which will inevitably lead to inaccuracies, security leaks and a lack of vigilance against malicious attacks.

2.Innocent people will go to prison, lose their livelihoods, and worse, and there will be no redress. NONE.

Are you SURE you still want to volunteer for an ID Card ?
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Old 18th Aug 2009, 11:09
  #245 (permalink)  
 
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Magic

I have enough frigging IDs now, they can stuff up their jaxy attached to a white hot poker I had an ID until the age of 7 yrs (1952) when they were withdrawn.

That ruling I think is going to the Law Lords and then BRU for further action, if nothing then to the Hague
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Old 18th Aug 2009, 12:15
  #246 (permalink)  
 
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magicarpet,

I would love to say that it surprises me, unfortunately, it does not and continue to oppose the ID card with same fervour as a government edict to have a "bar code" tattoo to the forehead.
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Old 18th Aug 2009, 20:23
  #247 (permalink)  
 
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Well done to Balpa - but where are the other unions?

Engineers, ATC, ground workers - we need you all behind this. The time to tell your unions you won't stand for it is now, or rest assured the Stasi will pick you off one by one



The LAST thing you want to do, is tie yourself to other workers. Around the globe, ground workers (baggage) have had criminal associations.

In North America, the Hells Angels have had involvement with ground operations in a number of Major Airlines.
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Old 18th Aug 2009, 22:53
  #248 (permalink)  
 
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In North America, the Hells Angels have had involvement with ground operations in a number of Major Airlines.
I would imagine that wherever these angels took off from, they would still require ground handling at the major airports!
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Old 18th Aug 2009, 23:13
  #249 (permalink)  
 
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Re: Computer says No.

I too have experience of UK government agencies losing secure database information.
A couple of years ago when selling my house, the Land Registry Office ( a government database of all land ownership which we are forced to deal with ) actually LOST the deeds to my house during a sale, which of course failed. Their attitude could only be cleanly summarised as "these things happen, tough luck, not our problem".
This is precisely what will happen with ID cards, as it already happens with Criminal Record Bureau checks - they are very quick to give themselves bonuses and pensions, but there is no incentive to work accurately with sensitive information, or to take the consequences of their mistakes, or even to correct them as quickly as they made them.
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Old 19th Aug 2009, 08:08
  #250 (permalink)  
 
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I am sure the French would "down tools" over this matter if they were in our position..
This is slightly out of date (2005-7) but the French already have a non-compulsory ID card..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...y_card_(France)

and in 2005 had plans for a new one similar to the UK scheme. At the time apparently 63% were in favour of compulsion. Still there were objections as in the UK and the scheme has been delayed if not cancelled.
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Old 3rd Sep 2009, 01:26
  #251 (permalink)  
 
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Not sure why they will cost so much to produce but the practicality of carrying a card instead of a passport each time one stops over in Europe is worth taking note of. I have a card which is kept in my wallet and it makes passing through airports much easier and less time consuming than always having to carry and produce a passport.
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Old 3rd Sep 2009, 08:58
  #252 (permalink)  
 
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I have a card which is kept in my wallet and it makes passing through airports much easier and less time consuming than always having to carry and produce a passport
So the difference in time to put your hand into your inside jacket pocket and remove a wallet and remove a card is how much shorter than putting your hand inside your jacket pocket removing a passport and opening it is ??

The issue of cost is neither here nor there. 7, 9, 15, 25 or 50 pounds !

What the issue is, is the collation and storage and use of private and personal data on the individual by government and that the personal and that the private and personal information is removed from the control of the individual.

Last edited by Bruce Wayne; 3rd Sep 2009 at 09:09.
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Old 3rd Sep 2009, 18:53
  #253 (permalink)  
 
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(re the French) At the time apparently 63% were in favour of compulsion. Still there were objections as in the UK and the scheme has been delayed if not cancelled.
The cost of forcing the 37% to acquire and then carry the card is what kills the scheme. The UK government haven't quite grasped this point yet, that it doesn't actually take that many to refuse outright or to play the system for maximum cost and the price goes way up.

Easy starting point: when they're compulsory, there will be a period over which you're supposed to go get fingerprinted, etc. So make an appointment, then the day before, get a nail file and file your fingerprints smooth. Add some scratches for good measure. Chances are you'll have to return on another day, having wasted some of their time. Next time, pick up something a bit too hot and damage your finger tips so they can't get a decent print this time either. Third time, turn up the day after doing decorating, with bits of paint all over your finger tips. Choose a paint that doesn't scrub off easily. Cancel the odd one at the last minute to take the budgie to the vet or a child to the doctor. Get called away on an urgent business trip. You can probably drag it out several months and many appointments. Multiply that cost and delay by all the other awkward bu66ers doing the same thing.

Once it's compulsory to carry them and you've run out of excuses for the above, be one of the million who refuse to carry ID. Stopped by the police, spend a few minutes searching your wallet and offer to accompany him to the station to fill out the paperwork. They'll have to stop asking for ID, because they'll all be back at the station filing paperwork for everyone who isn't carrying it.

Last edited by llondel; 3rd Sep 2009 at 18:55. Reason: typo
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Old 3rd Sep 2009, 19:53
  #254 (permalink)  
 
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On my last flight to the USA we had an accompanying passenger who had great trouble getting through US Immigration. They take fingerprints from each hand, but after an industrial accident he only had three fingers on one of his hands ! Supervisors and commanding officers had to be called, there was much discussion behind closed doors, and finally they waved him through.
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Old 3rd Sep 2009, 22:00
  #255 (permalink)  
 
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It's amazing the times people gabble about the benefits of an ID card without realising it's not the card but the database that the UK government want to compile on every citizen that is the problem...If you are OK with that then psychiatric evaluation is required.
Keep up the fight..
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Old 4th Sep 2009, 07:37
  #256 (permalink)  
 
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What will they do if you're truly armless?

MIAMI (Reuters) - A bank in Florida refused to cash a check for an armless man because he could not provide a thumbprint.

"They looked at my prosthetic hands and the teller said, 'Well, obviously you can't give us a thumbprint'," Steve Valdez told CNN on Wednesday.

But he said the Bank of America Corp branch in downtown Tampa, Florida, still insisted on a thumbprint identification for him to cash a check drawn on his wife's account at the bank, even though he showed them two photo IDs.

In the incident last week, a bank supervisor told Valdez he could only cash the check without a thumbprint if he brought his wife in with him or he opened an account with them.

"I told them I neither wanted an account with them and couldn't bring my wife in because she was nowhere close by," Valdez told CNN.

Bank of America said in a statement cited by CNN: "While the thumbprint is a requirement for those who don't have accounts, the bank should have made accommodations."

Valdez said his treatment by the bank violated the U.S. Americans with Disability Act requiring institutions to provide reasonable accommodation to disabled persons.
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Old 11th Sep 2009, 06:58
  #257 (permalink)  
 
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if the government cannot get a database on us all by the front door.. try several side doors....

Parents who take children to clubs face crime checks - Times Online

Parents who take children to clubs face crime checks

Parents who ferry groups of children to Scouts, Brownies or after-school sports clubs will have to undergo a criminal record check or face fines of up to £5,000.

They are the latest group to fall within the scope of the Government’s vetting and barring scheme, which is due to be introduced next month. Officials estimate that more than 11 million people — almost everyone in any position of authority who comes into contact with children — will have to be registered with the new Independent Safeguarding Authority.

The scheme is aimed at stopping paedophiles infiltrating children’s activities, but critics believe that far too many innocent people will be affected.

Controversially, complaints or concerns from colleagues or members of the public that fall short of prosecutions may be held on an individual’s file, which will be available for viewing by any employer or voluntary group with which the person might work
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Old 11th Sep 2009, 08:39
  #258 (permalink)  
 
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Parents who ferry groups of children to Scouts, Brownies or after-school sports clubs will have to undergo a criminal record check or face fines of up to £5,000.

They are the latest group to fall within the scope of the Government’s vetting and barring scheme, which is due to be introduced next month. Officials estimate that more than 11 million people — almost everyone in any position of authority who comes into contact with children — will have to be registered with the new Independent Safeguarding Authority.
Further confirmation, if needed, that Britain (without the Great) has become a Police state. I can imagine parents being stopped and being asked "Vos Papiers!" by the Stasi.

In any society the risks have to be balanced against the "benefits" - surely the lunatics really are running the asylum now!
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Old 16th Sep 2009, 21:54
  #259 (permalink)  
 
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fish

....Thank you Sir Michael Bichard and Ian Huntley (scumbag). Fallout from the Bichard Report. As with most extra powers and checks under this current Government they arise from existing powers not being correctly used.

Someone screws the pooch and we all have to stay behind in detention.

Of course it could also be a part of the "Database"......

Remember. The project continues....Long live the ID database!


Spanner
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Old 16th Sep 2009, 22:18
  #260 (permalink)  
 
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Flabbergasted!

Adrian Ryan wrote:
Conspicous by their absence are priests, ministers of religion etc. Yet the recent scandals of abuse including more than 80 years of state condoned and church organised abuse in Ireland show that children are seriously at risk from these as well.
September 12, 2009 9:57 AM BST on UK-TimesOnline
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What is incredible in this scheme, is the organized infrastructure to enable damning by innuendo where whispered nasties from jealous or spiteful anonymous folks can be entered into your record with no chance of recourse "all to save the children"

Of course, no one can say anything lest being entered into a database (Pro pedophile activists)

Still those measures wont be enough
Garrido’s neighbours spoke to Jaycee just days after her kidnap. | News Of The World
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