Continental TurboProp crash inbound for Buffalo
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This statement in the article needs some clarification:
"Gulfstream and its sister company, Gulfstream Training Academy, offer pilots commercial experience as part of a $29,900 training program. Within as little as months, a person with limited or no flying experience can work at "an actual airline flying real flights for Continental Connection," the academy's website says."
If I read this correctly, Gulfstream has taken crew pay to a new level: You pay us and you can fly our commercial aircraft in return for some training. Yikes!
I am only a SLF, and now an ex-Contintental Connection SLF
"Gulfstream and its sister company, Gulfstream Training Academy, offer pilots commercial experience as part of a $29,900 training program. Within as little as months, a person with limited or no flying experience can work at "an actual airline flying real flights for Continental Connection," the academy's website says."
If I read this correctly, Gulfstream has taken crew pay to a new level: You pay us and you can fly our commercial aircraft in return for some training. Yikes!
I am only a SLF, and now an ex-Contintental Connection SLF
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>lots of talk of stall recovery ...
>should have been alot of training about stall avoidance.
All that non-sterile-cockpit chatter about icing showed they had a concern about stalling.
"My plane" or "I've got it" are not the initial words of a debate! Their argument about skills-sufficiency and their limits should take place in the lounge.
>should have been alot of training about stall avoidance.
All that non-sterile-cockpit chatter about icing showed they had a concern about stalling.
"My plane" or "I've got it" are not the initial words of a debate! Their argument about skills-sufficiency and their limits should take place in the lounge.
"My plane" or "I've got it" are not the initial words of a debate!
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badgerh
its not the first place that either charged pilots to fly commercial flights...some don't pay at all.
I heard that some of the cruise ships have airliners to bring pax to the ships...the copilots were paid nothing..NOTHING.
all that talk about icing...that was surely whistling in the dark...fear...something wasn't right. correct me if I'm wrong...was there one word like: let's carry some extra speed for any unknown ice?
I heard that some of the cruise ships have airliners to bring pax to the ships...the copilots were paid nothing..NOTHING.
all that talk about icing...that was surely whistling in the dark...fear...something wasn't right. correct me if I'm wrong...was there one word like: let's carry some extra speed for any unknown ice?
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PTH The talk of icing didn't seem to be a function of the flight itself, but F/O Shaw's lack of experience with it, and her consequent fear of making LS with virtually no experience with ice. (This indicts the line's promotion policies and its training syllabus). From the transcript, there is a tone of "you're on your own with this ice, Captain", The context is important, and without knowing what she meant, what she wanted Renslow to get from her comment, or how well she knew the Captain, or even if she was inviting him to instruct a bit, it remains to be known why there seemed to be no chat about airspeeds. Had she asked for a "follow me through", there is some reason to think this accident may not have happened.In fact she may have, but receiving none, just let it go. From the events, it seems Renslow's possible lack of confidence deteriorated quickly into panic.
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Yup
Absolutely. It is a generational shift in our business and you will see more and more accidents like this. The blind leading he blind.
The only time you see a well qualified copilot nowadays is when you see one that has flown freight at night single pilot. That does not happen with the Ab Initio pilots. I do not care if they came from Gulfstream Academy or Oxford. They still need to get some experience in real world flying.
The only time you see a well qualified copilot nowadays is when you see one that has flown freight at night single pilot. That does not happen with the Ab Initio pilots. I do not care if they came from Gulfstream Academy or Oxford. They still need to get some experience in real world flying.
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will fraser
I didn't gather what you did from the CVR...I am also under the impression that the captain was pilot flying...copilot pilot not flying.
DA50 makes a good point about experience, but I would like to amplify one thing. The new breed of pilots is coming of age in the time of COST AT ALL COST...so they may never know the satisfaction in saying : NO, I won't take that plane...and neither will any other pilot at this airline.
DA50 makes a good point about experience, but I would like to amplify one thing. The new breed of pilots is coming of age in the time of COST AT ALL COST...so they may never know the satisfaction in saying : NO, I won't take that plane...and neither will any other pilot at this airline.
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This senseless fatal crash, because of inexperienced, fatigued, marginally trained pilots, suggests that for "personal safety" travellers would be well to do to board commuter/connection/express flights only during day VFR conditions.
Person Of Interest
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Glueball,
What ???? "Fatuigued, Marginally Trained, Pilots" have nothing to do with "Commuter" pilots flying at night vs. Daytime....
I think current FAA Regs are fine if they are adhered to...
Have you ever done a "Stand-Up-Overnight?"...That's no problem...you're "on duty" the whole time...I know it sucks but it's the nature of the beast...
However...
I've gone off duty at the hotel at 3 PM for instance, and I leave a fuel load with Dispatch for upload for my 4 AM departure...
It never fails...the oncoming Dispatcher calls me at midnight to confirm the "fuel load"....
That's another 8 hours for me...so says the FAA...
No wonder I didn't "conform" to "Captain Standards" at several FAR 121 Pax/Cargo Operations I've worked at...
Fatigued is answered in the FAR's...It's up to the "boss" (Capt) to enforce them....
What ???? "Fatuigued, Marginally Trained, Pilots" have nothing to do with "Commuter" pilots flying at night vs. Daytime....
I think current FAA Regs are fine if they are adhered to...
Have you ever done a "Stand-Up-Overnight?"...That's no problem...you're "on duty" the whole time...I know it sucks but it's the nature of the beast...
However...
I've gone off duty at the hotel at 3 PM for instance, and I leave a fuel load with Dispatch for upload for my 4 AM departure...
It never fails...the oncoming Dispatcher calls me at midnight to confirm the "fuel load"....
That's another 8 hours for me...so says the FAA...
No wonder I didn't "conform" to "Captain Standards" at several FAR 121 Pax/Cargo Operations I've worked at...
Fatigued is answered in the FAR's...It's up to the "boss" (Capt) to enforce them....
When I was flying regional turbo props the busiest approaches were often visual approaches when there was a lot of traffic around. Sports aircraft mixing with helicopters and private flights , congested frequencies due to long winded radio calls combined with vastly different speeds of the aircraft involved .....busy busy time in the cockpit. There were many distractions which can lead to things being missed or overlooked. If you compare that to a layer of stratus down to 500ft I know which one I would choose. Nice quiet frequency, everything done at a predetermined place on the approach, much better. Just personal opinion.
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Query STALL EGPWS audible warning on Colgan 3407
Does anyone have any knowledge of the audible warnings made by the
EGPWS on the Dash-8 Q400 ?
Should these warnings have appeared on the transcript for the Cockpit Voice Recorder ?
EGPWS on the Dash-8 Q400 ?
Should these warnings have appeared on the transcript for the Cockpit Voice Recorder ?
Originally Posted by protectthehornet
SAY, do you all know how some people turn towards you when you speak to them? Could the captain and the copilot been looking at each other while chatting about ice,instead of facing the instrument panel?
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NYTIMES Inspector Predicted Problems a Year Before Buffalo Crash
A somewhat querulous FAA inspector. FAA upper management working rather too closely with Colgan to approve their use of the Dash 8. Ignoring some issues encountered in acceptance testing (exceeding speed specifications).
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/04/ny...colgan.html?hp
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/04/ny...colgan.html?hp
Re: Should these warnings (EGPWS) have appeared on the transcript for the Cockpit Voice Recorder ? (#1441)
Re: They are disabled in landing config... (#1445)
I would be very surprised if the EGPWS alerts and warnings were disabled in the landing configuration; this applies to the most critical phase of flight which requires the protection of EGPWS.
The absence of EGPWS warnings on the CVR could be due to the aircraft’s warning prioritisation logic where the stick shake/stall warning would be expected to have priority. However, many aircraft only allocate priority to the audio aspects of warnings, but if the logic resides in the warning display system (EFIS/EICAS) then it might also apply to any visual alerts given by the stall warning system or even from the EFIS IAS low speed display.
Alternatively it is an oversight in the transcript.
Re: They are disabled in landing config... (#1445)
I would be very surprised if the EGPWS alerts and warnings were disabled in the landing configuration; this applies to the most critical phase of flight which requires the protection of EGPWS.
The absence of EGPWS warnings on the CVR could be due to the aircraft’s warning prioritisation logic where the stick shake/stall warning would be expected to have priority. However, many aircraft only allocate priority to the audio aspects of warnings, but if the logic resides in the warning display system (EFIS/EICAS) then it might also apply to any visual alerts given by the stall warning system or even from the EFIS IAS low speed display.
Alternatively it is an oversight in the transcript.
