Plane Down in Hudson River - NYC
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Best close-up video of landing I've seen so far
Crews hoist ditched plane from Hudson River | IndyStar.com | The Indianapolis Star
Crews hoist ditched plane from Hudson River | IndyStar.com | The Indianapolis Star
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Lomapaseo
This would have required a pitch down beyond an extended glide distance in order to get the N2's up to pressurization. As long as there are no obstacles and you have a chance to flare it works out as a win win.
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"Splash-landing"
Terrific post Kingbird - heartfelt and well-written.
Talking about writing, have I spotted the first use of a new phrase to describe this ditching? Today's Daily Telegraph web page in the UK has an article on this accident that describes the US Air ditching as a "splash-landing". Has anyone seen this excellent description before?
The article can be found at New York plane crash Airbus lifted from Hudson River by salvage teams - Telegraph
Talking about writing, have I spotted the first use of a new phrase to describe this ditching? Today's Daily Telegraph web page in the UK has an article on this accident that describes the US Air ditching as a "splash-landing". Has anyone seen this excellent description before?
The article can be found at New York plane crash Airbus lifted from Hudson River by salvage teams - Telegraph
Last edited by McGinty; 18th Jan 2009 at 16:55.
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First of all, kudos, congratulations and unlimited respect to the entire crew for their obvious professionalism in landing and evacuating this aircraft without loss of life - a truly wondrous achievement that I hope is studied and learned from to enable others to benefit from the exemplary performance of all. Additionally, massive congrats to all at Airbus for the robust airframe that survived this "landing".
However, sadly, I have to express my massive disappointment in the "professional" community here that chooses to speculate and put down the passengers on the aircraft at every opportunity (led, VERY disappointingly by a moderator, no less).
To disparage pax as "SLF" etc and ASSUME that they CHOSE not to put on life vests IF any were available and IF they were instructed to do so, is bad enough. To ASSUME that they had enough warning to do so in the limited time available, is grossly presumptive and utterly irresponsible.
Pax may not be trained or even necessarily properly informed (as per the aft doors argument) but this does not mean they are ignorant or stupid.
Shame on you. At a time when the industry should be justifiably proud of its achievements, your bias is extraordinarily disappointing.
However, sadly, I have to express my massive disappointment in the "professional" community here that chooses to speculate and put down the passengers on the aircraft at every opportunity (led, VERY disappointingly by a moderator, no less).
To disparage pax as "SLF" etc and ASSUME that they CHOSE not to put on life vests IF any were available and IF they were instructed to do so, is bad enough. To ASSUME that they had enough warning to do so in the limited time available, is grossly presumptive and utterly irresponsible.
Pax may not be trained or even necessarily properly informed (as per the aft doors argument) but this does not mean they are ignorant or stupid.
Shame on you. At a time when the industry should be justifiably proud of its achievements, your bias is extraordinarily disappointing.
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SLF is a common tongue in cheek name for passenger on this forum, it is part of the common speak and has been for donkey's years.
PPRUNE is intended for pilots and those associated with the aviation community. Once you have been here a while you will find people from outside our industry struggle with our direct approach to issues. So be it. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
Most people read a lot on a forum before they make accusations, especially to avoid gaffes like this one.
Apart from that i don't think SLF were put down in any way. I would suggest the gist is that they did well (not panic) but would do well listening carefully to the CC briefings (which may be improved after this ditching)
PPRUNE is intended for pilots and those associated with the aviation community. Once you have been here a while you will find people from outside our industry struggle with our direct approach to issues. So be it. If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
Most people read a lot on a forum before they make accusations, especially to avoid gaffes like this one.
Apart from that i don't think SLF were put down in any way. I would suggest the gist is that they did well (not panic) but would do well listening carefully to the CC briefings (which may be improved after this ditching)
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Plane down in Hudson River
One aspect I have not seen discussed is the information available from the fuselage structure. My only experience is of old fashioned riveted structures, I have no idea how much of a bus is machined and bonded rather than riveted
This was a near perfect ditching in calm water, the degree of damage to the underside will give a great deal of guidance on the survivability in other circumstances. I would still guess that landing in ocean swells would have lead to less favourable outcomes.
This was a near perfect ditching in calm water, the degree of damage to the underside will give a great deal of guidance on the survivability in other circumstances. I would still guess that landing in ocean swells would have lead to less favourable outcomes.
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It flight attendants could be unaware that the plane had landed in the water it's just as likely that a fair number of passengers wouldn't have realized they needed life jackets before they'd left their seat.
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Yes quite right vanHorck maybe a few more will pay attention to the Cabin Crew pre-flight brief. Even as flight deck crew I always pay attention to the brief out of respect. I cannot accept the contempt paid by the traveling public who know it all and don't have the respect to put down their newspaper or get off their mobile for a few moments to pay attention to what may save their fat arses.
Rgds
CL747
Rgds
CL747
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I would still guess that landing in ocean swells would have lead to less favourable outcomes.
I can guarantee you it would have been less favorable, and possibly not survivable for some or all, depending on the swell height and distance top to top..
I can guarantee you it would have been less favorable, and possibly not survivable for some or all, depending on the swell height and distance top to top..
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US Airways black boxes head to Washington | NECN
Video showing the recorders from the flight. The NTSB grabbed four boxes total. CVR and FDR as standard, plus the EGPWS and one other black box I don't recognize (ACARS or QAR?).
Grabbing the EGPWS is becoming more common for the data it stores about takeoffs, landings, and alerts.
Video showing the recorders from the flight. The NTSB grabbed four boxes total. CVR and FDR as standard, plus the EGPWS and one other black box I don't recognize (ACARS or QAR?).
Grabbing the EGPWS is becoming more common for the data it stores about takeoffs, landings, and alerts.
Last edited by GroundProxGuy; 18th Jan 2009 at 18:43.
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Stirred, not Shaken
Exonomad, the construction of modern a/c is an amazing feat. Rivets are heavy, compromise the skins strength, and require thicker panels to gain their strength. A/C are an excellent example of form following function. A/C must be light and strong, period. If you like Bonding and machining, you will love what's coming. "Friction-Stir" welding of Aluminum skin and sub structures. Pioneered in Rockets and missiles, it is a superior solution to saving weight and gaining strength.
Had the A320 had a riveted belly, (some of it is), it may have failed in a different, more catastrophic manner. Rueing the disappearance of rivets?
Airplanes are not meant to land on water (except those constructed with that in mind, specifically), all in all, the 320 is a marvel, I think this last accident only serves to polish its reputation, not impugn it.
Had the A320 had a riveted belly, (some of it is), it may have failed in a different, more catastrophic manner. Rueing the disappearance of rivets?
Airplanes are not meant to land on water (except those constructed with that in mind, specifically), all in all, the 320 is a marvel, I think this last accident only serves to polish its reputation, not impugn it.
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Avec mes excuses -
NamelessWonder -
xxx
Please be assured that I have always refrained from using the "SLF" slang to designate passengers. In particular, I do not like the "F" in "SLF" (as it denotes freight). For me, old school and education, passengers were always passengers, not even customers. If I refer passengers as "PAX", it is because the airline industry's official code/abbreviation for passengers. If the tower asks "how many on board"...? we could answer 375+15, meaning 375 PAX and 15 CREW... or 390 SOB for "souls on board" (not anything nasty in this SOB)...!
xxx
I know that passengers are not all idiots. Unfortunately, I know from 40 years as pilot with airlines (now retired) and from conversing with the public, or reading Pprune, we crewmembers often deal with passenger misinformation rather than stupidity. Such as "the plane will stall if all engines fail"... or "wow, you are a pilot, it is such a dangerous job"... "heavy jets glide like a brick"...!
xxx
If I consult a surgeon for a surgery, I do not doubt his capacity to take care of a hernia, nor a lawyer to defend me in an ownership litigation. So, please trust those of us who are experienced crewmembers here in Pprune. As to my opinion of "Sully" and crew, I do respect their performance and judgment. As far as I am concerned, I never was a "hero" in my career. My passengers always arrived safely, because as a pilot, I wanted to arrive alive and well, and funny, if I landed safely, so did all the passengers.
xxx
Do not ever ask me "is this airplane safe"...? If say "let's go", is because I am certain it is, I would never have risked my life, as I am not a hero.
xxx
Bien à vous -
Happy contrails
xxx
Please be assured that I have always refrained from using the "SLF" slang to designate passengers. In particular, I do not like the "F" in "SLF" (as it denotes freight). For me, old school and education, passengers were always passengers, not even customers. If I refer passengers as "PAX", it is because the airline industry's official code/abbreviation for passengers. If the tower asks "how many on board"...? we could answer 375+15, meaning 375 PAX and 15 CREW... or 390 SOB for "souls on board" (not anything nasty in this SOB)...!
xxx
I know that passengers are not all idiots. Unfortunately, I know from 40 years as pilot with airlines (now retired) and from conversing with the public, or reading Pprune, we crewmembers often deal with passenger misinformation rather than stupidity. Such as "the plane will stall if all engines fail"... or "wow, you are a pilot, it is such a dangerous job"... "heavy jets glide like a brick"...!
xxx
If I consult a surgeon for a surgery, I do not doubt his capacity to take care of a hernia, nor a lawyer to defend me in an ownership litigation. So, please trust those of us who are experienced crewmembers here in Pprune. As to my opinion of "Sully" and crew, I do respect their performance and judgment. As far as I am concerned, I never was a "hero" in my career. My passengers always arrived safely, because as a pilot, I wanted to arrive alive and well, and funny, if I landed safely, so did all the passengers.
xxx
Do not ever ask me "is this airplane safe"...? If say "let's go", is because I am certain it is, I would never have risked my life, as I am not a hero.
xxx
Bien à vous -
Happy contrails
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airfoilmod
You are so right. The A320 had a very long gestation period. This enabled improvements such as fly-thru-computer to be incorporated, which were not in the predecessor projects.
One might say that some of the best human brains anywhere contributed.
Not surprising therefore that this ahead-of-its-time masterpiece baffled more than one pilot. The early accidents are well documented.
But as the designers of this remarkable machine take their retirement, if they made it that far, let's at least say that their highly ambitious and innovative approach has been vindicated.
One might say that some of the best human brains anywhere contributed.
Not surprising therefore that this ahead-of-its-time masterpiece baffled more than one pilot. The early accidents are well documented.
But as the designers of this remarkable machine take their retirement, if they made it that far, let's at least say that their highly ambitious and innovative approach has been vindicated.
Last edited by Dysag; 18th Jan 2009 at 19:25.
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Here's LGA ATC audio from the time of the crash. Doesn't contain the actual pilot's comms but the controller is asking other crews to look for the ditched plane
LiveATC Recordings | LiveATC.net
LiveATC Recordings | LiveATC.net
GroundProxGuy;
From the limited view underneath the EGPWS box I didn't see a card-mounting slot for a QAR PCMCIA card but I don't know the media that AW/US Airways aircraft use for their FOQA Program - it could be a wireless arrangement with a transmitter, usually cell-phone technology, that sends the stored data at the end of the flight. Regardless, FDIMU's (Flight Data Interface Management Unit) aren't water or shock proof so we'll see what is available. Usually such installations collect far more parameters than the crash recorders do. Even so, with this installation there will be plenty of engine data not to say system and flight data. Nice to see recorders in such pristine condition, not unexpected in this case, another subtle but happy sign of the wonderful outcome.
BelArgUSA;
Superb post, excellent comments - captures my, and likely almost all, professionals' thoughts and feelings about this incident. At one time or another, if we fly long enough, we'll all have been there, not nearly to the same extent but certainly with the potential but for all the good work those who remain unsung, do.
From the limited view underneath the EGPWS box I didn't see a card-mounting slot for a QAR PCMCIA card but I don't know the media that AW/US Airways aircraft use for their FOQA Program - it could be a wireless arrangement with a transmitter, usually cell-phone technology, that sends the stored data at the end of the flight. Regardless, FDIMU's (Flight Data Interface Management Unit) aren't water or shock proof so we'll see what is available. Usually such installations collect far more parameters than the crash recorders do. Even so, with this installation there will be plenty of engine data not to say system and flight data. Nice to see recorders in such pristine condition, not unexpected in this case, another subtle but happy sign of the wonderful outcome.
BelArgUSA;
Superb post, excellent comments - captures my, and likely almost all, professionals' thoughts and feelings about this incident. At one time or another, if we fly long enough, we'll all have been there, not nearly to the same extent but certainly with the potential but for all the good work those who remain unsung, do.
Last edited by PJ2; 18th Jan 2009 at 19:12. Reason: to add comment for BelArgUSA
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5 white-knuckled minutes aboard Flight 1549 - Yahoo! News
Really was a fortunate turn of events coupled with a fantastic bit of flying.
Really was a fortunate turn of events coupled with a fantastic bit of flying.
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My but you read lots of rubbish on these forums. 'Aviators' who fly into the ground/sea because they were in a sim, some who think a jet can glide 9mls from 3000' These pax were very lucky in timing location etc but also because the guy in charge had seen it all many times before and will be the first to admit that the flying was pretty straight forward and he was lucky.