Plane Down in Hudson River - NYC
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Top man, top job!
There is little to add to the many postings on this topic other than to offer congratulations to the crew, ALL the crew of 1549 for a job well done. Despite all the rubbish offered by the armchair experts, it is clear that Capt. Sullenberger got it pretty much down pat as he responded to the developing and potentially catastrophic emergency on his aircraft just after take-off.
Emergencies don't run off exactly by the numbers as they do in training and whether or not he got off a Mayday call, or any debate as to the value of such a call, or questions about the precise value of the response of Cabin Crew are all little more than idle chatter. On the day, the crew got it just about as right as it could have been, they were favoured by training, calm response, advantage of circumstances and a dressing of luck sprinkled across the top. It takes all of those to get the right result in any circumstances and none of those can be used to take the tiniest thing away from the full credit due to the crew - ALL the crew.
Many of us who fly professionally will consider what happened both in the context of relief that it all turned out well but, more importantly, with regard to just how we might have handled that or any other real life emergency in the air. Sullenberger is quoted by his family as saying that most pilots go through their entire career without an incident. In my own case, so far, he's been right and I dearly hope it stays that way. I'm 52 years old and I don't feel either desire or compulsion to test my "cool-clean-hero" ability nor to check my emergency drills in anything other than the simulator. I hope my training has laid up a bank of knowledge and automatic reactions which will stand me in good stead in the event I am faced with a real emergency one day and that's about it.
The finer points of this incident are of no importance at all at this stage.
It is clear there was complete power loss in both engines, it is clear Sullenberger did what he was supposed to do, it is clear the cabin crew did what they too were supposed to do, it is clear there were extremely fortunate circumstances prevailing at the time in terms of available first responders and, most importantly, it is clear everybody survived.
After that, ladies and gentlemen, all this "what if" stuff and "did he do this or that?" stuff is just so much waffle and about as useful as an ashtray on a motorcycle.
Well done again to the crew, ALL the crew of 1549.
22
Emergencies don't run off exactly by the numbers as they do in training and whether or not he got off a Mayday call, or any debate as to the value of such a call, or questions about the precise value of the response of Cabin Crew are all little more than idle chatter. On the day, the crew got it just about as right as it could have been, they were favoured by training, calm response, advantage of circumstances and a dressing of luck sprinkled across the top. It takes all of those to get the right result in any circumstances and none of those can be used to take the tiniest thing away from the full credit due to the crew - ALL the crew.
Many of us who fly professionally will consider what happened both in the context of relief that it all turned out well but, more importantly, with regard to just how we might have handled that or any other real life emergency in the air. Sullenberger is quoted by his family as saying that most pilots go through their entire career without an incident. In my own case, so far, he's been right and I dearly hope it stays that way. I'm 52 years old and I don't feel either desire or compulsion to test my "cool-clean-hero" ability nor to check my emergency drills in anything other than the simulator. I hope my training has laid up a bank of knowledge and automatic reactions which will stand me in good stead in the event I am faced with a real emergency one day and that's about it.
The finer points of this incident are of no importance at all at this stage.
It is clear there was complete power loss in both engines, it is clear Sullenberger did what he was supposed to do, it is clear the cabin crew did what they too were supposed to do, it is clear there were extremely fortunate circumstances prevailing at the time in terms of available first responders and, most importantly, it is clear everybody survived.
After that, ladies and gentlemen, all this "what if" stuff and "did he do this or that?" stuff is just so much waffle and about as useful as an ashtray on a motorcycle.
Well done again to the crew, ALL the crew of 1549.
22
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The Associated Press: NTSB: River jet's engines lost power at same time
More info plus interview with capt Sullenberger had been delayed ( again)
More info plus interview with capt Sullenberger had been delayed ( again)
Glide angle estimates of 16/18:1 are presumably for a 'clean' airframe. The pictures, after removal from river, show LE slats out and some flap out on sbd wing (but not obviously on port wing so could be post splash damage) and wheels up.
What would glide angles be in various 'dirty' configurations?
What would glide angles be in various 'dirty' configurations?
Passenger accounts
Excellent report of passenger accounts, that will surely lead to changes in SOP....
Cabin crew report they were unaware they were landing on water.
Passengers took seat cushions when they realised they were on water.
Very few life vests taken and worn.
Most passengers went to wing exits (just as well as there was inadequate space on forward slides)
A passenger opened one of the rear doors "a crack" which let in water.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/17/ny...pagewanted=all
Mickjoebill
Cabin crew report they were unaware they were landing on water.
Passengers took seat cushions when they realised they were on water.
Very few life vests taken and worn.
Most passengers went to wing exits (just as well as there was inadequate space on forward slides)
A passenger opened one of the rear doors "a crack" which let in water.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/17/ny...pagewanted=all
Mickjoebill
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The examination of the many aspects of this event are both useful, and distracting. The results of US Airways Flight 1549 are 155 people waking up on the 17th of January, 2009. They weren't in Charlotte, and US Airways was missing one A320, but all things considered, I will always consider this a positive outcome.
The next day, I looked out the window going through 3000 feet departing runway 31 from LGA. I assume the birdstrike occurred about the time he crossed the East River over Manhattan. I looked back at LaGuardia, too many turns, and over the Hudson at Teterboro. I used the judgment I've gained and determined I might make it, but I could not align with the runway and configure for landing with the altitude I had. Captain Sullenberger nailed it. He took the stick, he decided it was the Hudson, and delegated duties. The FO configured for an Emergency Landing, and it happened. He missed all obstacles, and performed a terrific landing. The evacuation, and the crew's actions afterwards are exemplary. I don't have any second guessing to add to this. I do have these personal observations.
I would probably have chosen to ditch. I also would have probably turned up the river toward West Point. This would have been most likely a decision with fatal consequences. The ferries and the emergency response teams were all in the vicinity of the harbor. My judgement, at that time, would have been to avoid populated areas, and if that plane went down several miles up the river, I doubt the outcome would have been without fatalities. I cannot fathom second guessing this man's decisions. I'm convinced. He did it right.
I've seen the other end of this spectrum. As an HC-130 Rescue Pilot, I responded to a number of crashes, sinkings, Typhoons, and a shootdown. That is why I feel such elation with the events of Flight 1549. I know what the other outcome looks like, and it in no way resembles what we have witnessed.
That flight I flew the next day, two of the survivors of Flight 1549 were aboard, along with a US Airways Representative. I watched them get off to meet friends and family, and I felt good. We should all feel good. Captain Sullenberger, you got 155 saves the other day. "These Things We Do, That Others May Live".
The next day, I looked out the window going through 3000 feet departing runway 31 from LGA. I assume the birdstrike occurred about the time he crossed the East River over Manhattan. I looked back at LaGuardia, too many turns, and over the Hudson at Teterboro. I used the judgment I've gained and determined I might make it, but I could not align with the runway and configure for landing with the altitude I had. Captain Sullenberger nailed it. He took the stick, he decided it was the Hudson, and delegated duties. The FO configured for an Emergency Landing, and it happened. He missed all obstacles, and performed a terrific landing. The evacuation, and the crew's actions afterwards are exemplary. I don't have any second guessing to add to this. I do have these personal observations.
I would probably have chosen to ditch. I also would have probably turned up the river toward West Point. This would have been most likely a decision with fatal consequences. The ferries and the emergency response teams were all in the vicinity of the harbor. My judgement, at that time, would have been to avoid populated areas, and if that plane went down several miles up the river, I doubt the outcome would have been without fatalities. I cannot fathom second guessing this man's decisions. I'm convinced. He did it right.
I've seen the other end of this spectrum. As an HC-130 Rescue Pilot, I responded to a number of crashes, sinkings, Typhoons, and a shootdown. That is why I feel such elation with the events of Flight 1549. I know what the other outcome looks like, and it in no way resembles what we have witnessed.
That flight I flew the next day, two of the survivors of Flight 1549 were aboard, along with a US Airways Representative. I watched them get off to meet friends and family, and I felt good. We should all feel good. Captain Sullenberger, you got 155 saves the other day. "These Things We Do, That Others May Live".
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Flocks of Geese v Airliners - including looking at probabilities of Geese into both engines of Twin Airliners: http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...pdf_500040.pdf
So:
it would seem the answer is in fact significantly large 
A rather prophetic report
NoD
So:
I would still like to know what "large brown birds" bought down the aircraft. About the only large brown birds as described are geese, and geese don't flock like starlings, they fly in a 'V' (as noted by pattern_is_full). Ingesting one, fine, but two? You would have to exactly fly to intersect with the V-pair which were the same distance apart as the donks. The odds must be vanishingly small.
A rather prophetic report
NoD
Marsh Hawk
i humbly stand corrected, i was going from memory of the accident brief I attended years ago. However, I "literally" was incorrect, however, there was a lot of radio transmissions that did nothing to aid aircraft handling. To my point, what help did declaring an emergency do?
GF
i humbly stand corrected, i was going from memory of the accident brief I attended years ago. However, I "literally" was incorrect, however, there was a lot of radio transmissions that did nothing to aid aircraft handling. To my point, what help did declaring an emergency do?
GF
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May have been prothetic but not widely read:
WWT London Wetland Centre - Wildfowl & Wetlands Trust (WWT)
How close is Barnes resevoir to LHR?
WWT London Wetland Centre - Wildfowl & Wetlands Trust (WWT)
How close is Barnes resevoir to LHR?
The centre was awarded the 2002 British Airways 'Tourism for Tomorrow' Global Award for Sustainable Tourism
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So he did call Mayday.
At least Debbie Hersman has a commerical school bus driver's license.
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Glide angle estimates of 16/18:1 are presumably for a 'clean' airframe. The pictures, after removal from river, show LE slats out and some flap out on sbd wing (but not obviously on port wing so could be post splash damage) and wheels up.
What would glide angles be in various 'dirty' configurations?
What would glide angles be in various 'dirty' configurations?
Also - As a pilot that does regular "off field landings" - you obviously try to be as slow as you can over the ground when landing, so once the decision has been made to land , you use whatever slow down devices you have (airbrakes and flaps on most gliders) - thus the most likely deployment of slats/ flaps here, and they were probably only deployed at last possible moment.
I think we all would like to know if the APU was still running as that would have made a big difference during the emergency.
Last edited by Zulu01; 18th Jan 2009 at 23:57. Reason: wording
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So he did call Mayday.
In the US, who cares, saying you lost both engines and were landing in the Hudson doesn't require a mayday call. Even answering ATC if they can't help you is a waste of time in an emergency. Notice on the transcripts ATC did not ask for those annoying reports on souls on board, fuel, etc, but left them alone to deal with the ditching, probably required if you declared an emergency, or Mayday for the brits.
In the US, who cares, saying you lost both engines and were landing in the Hudson doesn't require a mayday call. Even answering ATC if they can't help you is a waste of time in an emergency. Notice on the transcripts ATC did not ask for those annoying reports on souls on board, fuel, etc, but left them alone to deal with the ditching, probably required if you declared an emergency, or Mayday for the brits.
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Not surprising therefore that this ahead-of-its-time masterpiece baffled more than one pilot. The early accidents are well documented.
But as the designers of this remarkable machine take their retirement, if they made it that far, let's at least say that their highly ambitious and innovative approach has been vindicated.
But as the designers of this remarkable machine take their retirement, if they made it that far, let's at least say that their highly ambitious and innovative approach has been vindicated.
Again I have no idea what so ever what happened, I am merely stating that the build quality of the AB would not have been a factor. Obviously the build quality of this bird was good enough to stay together for this landing, and what more could anyone ask.
Last edited by fr8tmastr; 19th Jan 2009 at 01:16.
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galaxy flier
Point taken, declaring an emergency was no help whatsoever in the Elmendorf accident. It may have even been a fatal distraction at a time when full attention was needed for the crisis at hand.
MH
Point taken, declaring an emergency was no help whatsoever in the Elmendorf accident. It may have even been a fatal distraction at a time when full attention was needed for the crisis at hand.
MH
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Hudson Ditching
Whilst not wishing to take anything away from the excellent performance by the crew of this Airbus I am getting more than a little tired of Fox News declaring that this was the "first" successful ditching of a commercial airliner.
A Garuda 737 suffered a flame out of both engines ccaused by extreme water injestion during a major tropical storm in East Java in Indonesia in 2002. The crew ditched the aircraft in the Solo river and all passengers survived but a flight attendant who jumped from the plane died. This ditching was all the more laudable as the aircraft clipped the trees on top of a ridge on the approach and one wing hit the river bank.
A Garuda 737 suffered a flame out of both engines ccaused by extreme water injestion during a major tropical storm in East Java in Indonesia in 2002. The crew ditched the aircraft in the Solo river and all passengers survived but a flight attendant who jumped from the plane died. This ditching was all the more laudable as the aircraft clipped the trees on top of a ridge on the approach and one wing hit the river bank.
Ms. Higgins was a controversial NTSB political appointee over the objection of ALPA and other groups and has little operational aviation experience. Some of the terms she's used in earlier press conferences show this.
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declaring an emergency...
In the US, who cares, saying you lost both engines and were landing in the Hudson doesn't require a mayday call. Even answering ATC if they can't help you is a waste of time in an emergency. Notice on the transcripts ATC did not ask for those annoying reports on souls on board, fuel, etc, but left them alone to deal with the ditching, probably required if you declared an emergency, or Mayday for the brits.
All in all, relatively unimportant here... as are the 911 calls that were played in the media. It's not like all those ferryboat crews were waiting for a call from ATC to go rescue anyone...
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