A little Non-standard, but way more fun

[Admiral346]

Accident: Trans States E145 at St. Louis on Aug 14th 2008, tail strike on landing

By Simon Hradecky, created Tuesday, Dec 16th 2008 18:58Z, last updated Tuesday, Dec 16th 2008 18:58ZA Trans States Airlines Embraer ERJ-145LR, registration N814HK performing flight AX5506 from Jacksonville,FL to St. Louis,MO (USA) with 36 people on board, was enroute, when the first officer told the captain, that his 45 degrees flaps landings are a "litte bit extreme" continuing, that the landings are a "little non-standard, but it's way more fun". The first officer increased the pitch angle starting at 34 feet AGL to a pitch angle of 13 degrees nose up (angle of attack 17 degrees), the stick shaker activated a few seconds before ground contact, then the airplane's tail section contacted the runway. There were no injuries.

The NTSB did not state the damage. Their (very brief) report can be found at: DFW08CA215

from the Aviation Herald: The Aviation Herald

Now this one I find "a bit extreme", and I wonder what kind of flying culture allows one to even attempt this severe breachof ops procedures, or let it slip from the Captains side.

Nic

[Mercenary Pilot]

I wonder what kind of flying culture allows one to even attempt this severe breachof ops procedures

One that pays their pilots $19,793 per year I expect.

[Admiral346]

Well, I don't think that little pay is an excuse for endangering passengers life whatsoever!

Nic

[Capn Bloggs]

Ya pay peanuts, ya get monkeys!

[merlinxx]

The FO's a total and absolute , apologies I doubt if the Feds or NTSB would phrase it that way, but what the heck, I'm just an old shagged out dispatcher (real one)

[PAXboy]

Let me take the counter intuitive route ... this is a very GOOD event.

1) No one was hurt (even if the FO should subsequently be taken round the back of the fuel dump and given a good kicking!)

2) The carrier will have learnt a valuable lesson. It should ensure that ALL their flight crews smarten up their act and start following the rules. Thus preventing an experiment becoming a truly big smash.

3) It might (just) have an effect upon the FAA. Certainly other carriers in the world can use this as a free example of why there are rules.

[hauxdeu]

Capt Bloggs has it right. If you want a quality product, be prepared to pay for it. Serious managers know this and act accordingly. Avoid the airline!

[Mungo Man]

First tailstrike I've heard of in the EMB 145, apart from one where the whole tail broke off. Stick shaker is inhibited below 5ft AGL so must have been holding off a bit high.

[spanner the cat]

Would have been even more interesting if the stick pusher had pushed

[Huck]

When I started flying for a regional carrier in 1995, I made 15k a year. It was, therefore, a "hobby" and I worked a second job as well.

But it was okay, because I could expect to upgrade in 2-3 years to a decent salary when I made captain.

Then had a decent chance to get on with a major carrier within 5-10 years. A few more years there and I'd be making well into the 6 figures. I could retire at 60 a rich man with a six figure pension.

I have absolutely no idea why anybody would joining the U.S. airline business right now.

Which is the end goal, I believe, of all U.S. carriers: "We just can't find enough Americans to fill these jobs....."

[Mshamba]

Most of all crashes start with words like "look, i show you how this works"

[411A]

The FO's a total and absolute ...

Yup, would agree, and should be shown the don't come Monday letter, straight away.
The Captain?
Back to the RHS for awhile for showing such poor judgement in allowing the co-pilot to perform such antics.

[BOAC]

I think I need phsycotherapy. I agree!

[Cyclone733]

Hope the FO's loss of licence insurance covered mental illness

Never enjoy hearing "the book says this, but this works better", but to phrase it as

"little non-standard, but it's way more fun"

rings alarm bells

[noosariver]

Perhaps what he should have done, is to approach his tech manager with a view to changing the procedures, if he thought he had a better way to do it.

[CptRegionalJet]

Admiral,from your profile I assume we are sitting in a similar boat.
Happens everywhere.Ever witnessed some landings in FRA?
Same sh..;different airline(one you would not expect it from)
So for me this is not dependend on salary,more like "It`s your attitude,Maverick....."

Greetings
CptRegionalJet

[Engine3firehandle]

What is this ?

Captain Regional Jet - Are you trying to start a mobbing campaign ?
Is there a possibility you are unhappy because you are stuck at the regional carrier ?

You are flying the bird without slats and have no idea about landing the A300.

Please calm your voice before starting a mobbing campaign against fellow pilots from the same company, accusing them, of not being able to land that thing.

" You know, the guys from the regionals, they can not fly, that is why they are not flying the big birds ! "

Sounds stupid, when I say something like that, Or ?

That is, why you will never hear it from me...

Have save trips...

[CptRegionalJet]

Engine3firehandle,
neither do I want to start a mobbing campain against fellow colleagues nor am I unhappy with my present position.So there is no reason for your agressive comment.
I simply want to point out that things like this do happen everywhere- when people don`t have the right attitude.Just look at the foreword in the last flight safety Info.
Yes,I belive I can distinguish between a normal landing an one where you pull the yoke.You don`t have to be type rated on that thing to tell the difference.
By the way,CRJ-700 and 900`s do have slats just like real airplanes

Safe flights to you too

[captjns]

This is not the first time where you have had an inadequate captain in the left seat and the first officer running the show… and it won’t be the last time either.

I’m sure the carpet dance in the chief pilot’s office will be their farewell waltz.

[Dani]

Well, why is there a 45° flap position if it leads to tail strike? Of course this FO is plain dumb, but there must be more to the story. I guess the tailstrake hasn't solely happened because of the flap setting but also because of poor landing technique and too low air speed.

Let us wait for the accident report.

Dani