Airport Security again...
Join Date: Oct 2001
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Silly, random new belts off rule also applied at STN. In winter I wear a sweater which covers my belt, I therefore don't bother to remove it, security don't notice so situation normal for me. The farce continues unabated at our expence.
When going through the Concorde Hse security point at LGW I've also noticed that there now appears to be a security dept "suit" in residence throughout the day. Whether he/she is an observer or enforcer I'm not sure because they don't seem to do or say much. I'd like to think that they are ensuring security staff are playing by the same rules that we are but who knows.
Anyone else noticed that the "shoe exemption" cards have disappeared too? Obviously the shoes that I wear were considered unsafe so they were X-rayed, fair enough. Then they were deemed safe again, I was given a card telling me as much and could keep them on through security, great. Now they're not safe again and have to be X-rayed once more, strange..........
Anyone else noticed that the "shoe exemption" cards have disappeared too? Obviously the shoes that I wear were considered unsafe so they were X-rayed, fair enough. Then they were deemed safe again, I was given a card telling me as much and could keep them on through security, great. Now they're not safe again and have to be X-rayed once more, strange..........
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I have been told that the shoe exemption card was removed because a member of staff asked for one and was given one. The DfT inspectors watching this happen thought that this was unacceptable, so removed the cards.
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Reminds me of when I flew from Southampton to Paris a few months ago... I unfortunately ripped a hole in the crotch of my jeans and asked the assistant in WH Smiths if they had a travel sewing kit, knowing full well it was unlikely. She told me that they did not, however the airside store may do.
So after clearing security (the usual belt off, laptop out, detector alarm then a frisk), I find the Smiths and ask the guy in the store. Right away he started talking with a raised voice at me "Of course we don't, needles are banned and you aren't allowed to carry them!". This amused my wife and I and we tried to make a joke out of the silly regulations today.
Bad move, the assistant almost shouted at us "It's not silly, you know that terrorists used needles to bomb the WTC on 9/11???"
At that point we just walked away, still with a hole in my jeans but amused with the image of terrorists holding up an aircraft with a sewing needle.
(And yes, I know that he said 'bombed', 'not hijacked aircraft'.
)
So after clearing security (the usual belt off, laptop out, detector alarm then a frisk), I find the Smiths and ask the guy in the store. Right away he started talking with a raised voice at me "Of course we don't, needles are banned and you aren't allowed to carry them!". This amused my wife and I and we tried to make a joke out of the silly regulations today.
Bad move, the assistant almost shouted at us "It's not silly, you know that terrorists used needles to bomb the WTC on 9/11???"
At that point we just walked away, still with a hole in my jeans but amused with the image of terrorists holding up an aircraft with a sewing needle.
(And yes, I know that he said 'bombed', 'not hijacked aircraft'.
)
Join Date: Oct 1998
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Soon after Bonfire night my friends went home to Spain with fireworks in the wife's handbag. Security must have been too busy with the belts and toothpaste to notice the bangers.
At least the fireworks were not as big as the flares we carry in the liferafts.
At least the fireworks were not as big as the flares we carry in the liferafts.
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pilots are not asking to be totally excluded from screening, we just want it to be sensible i.e. screen us for guns and bombs, not nailclippers and water.
How do you suppose a caterer can bring down an airliner without smuggling anything through security?
On the LAG's front, I believe there is technology underway, that will be able to detect liquid explosives during the bag x-ray process which would remove the need to limit LAG's or display them. Good news for all!
I recently posed the question at BHX T2 Staff Gate (very grubby looking to say the least, hardly hygienic) asking what would be the outcome should I (a) tread on something very sharp or (b) pick up a foot infection whilst passing through the archway, being as there is no form of protective matting on the bare vinyl flooring or disposable foot protection offered, should I be requested to remove my shoes. Needless to say I was met by blank stares and assorted 'errs' but no direct answer. I rest my case. In fact on a previous occasion I posed this question and was told 'stop being awkward, just get your shoes off!' Oh the joys of contracted-out security! And yes, I did report the incident straight to the officer's superiors. No doubt the obligatory 'smack on the hand, you naughty boy' was administered! 
Wow....how very sad and pathetic.
<<<<< there... that one is for you
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Massey AvMan,
I should have known that you would focus on the petty details of my post and avoid answering my main message.
I think you got my point but I will answer anyway.
Personally, Iīm not away from home more than 6 days at a time for work but I have friends who are away more than 2 weeks, so a nailclipper can come in handy also for pilots even though they donīt use it while flying. Besides, itīs a normal component of your toiletries.
So you mean that a caterer doesnīt have to smuggle the poison through security?
How can a cleaner bring down an airliner without smugling anything through security?
Do you still have a problem with where to draw the line?
What do you think of the sensible approach of screening pilots for real threats only, like bombs and guns?
I should have known that you would focus on the petty details of my post and avoid answering my main message.
I think you got my point but I will answer anyway.
Personally, Iīm not away from home more than 6 days at a time for work but I have friends who are away more than 2 weeks, so a nailclipper can come in handy also for pilots even though they donīt use it while flying. Besides, itīs a normal component of your toiletries.
So you mean that a caterer doesnīt have to smuggle the poison through security?
How can a cleaner bring down an airliner without smugling anything through security?
Do you still have a problem with where to draw the line?
What do you think of the sensible approach of screening pilots for real threats only, like bombs and guns?
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So you mean that a caterer doesnīt have to smuggle the poison through security?
How can a cleaner bring down an airliner without smugling anything through security?
How can a cleaner bring down an airliner without smugling anything through security?
NZ is not a high risk region and therefore does things differently than other countries. We don't screen some of our domestic flights at all (hence the recent hijack attempt and stabbing of pilots!) and none of our domestic flights are subject to LAGs restrictions.
Again, put nailclippers in hold luggage, they are not required for the duration of your flight.
What do you think of the sensible approach of screening pilots for real threats only, like bombs and guns?
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So you can't get anything dodgy airside ?
Does anyone know what "listed cargo" is ?
Do they x-ray every pallet at security ?
Anyone know how mail is screened ?
Airside security is an absolute joke, as for what you see in terminals......
Does anyone know what "listed cargo" is ?
Do they x-ray every pallet at security ?
Anyone know how mail is screened ?
Airside security is an absolute joke, as for what you see in terminals......
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MA,
A lot of airline crews do not have hold luggage - even those going away for a week or so. It is standard practise to load one's baggage (wheely bag) in the cockpit or cabin.
A lot of airline crews do not have hold luggage - even those going away for a week or so. It is standard practise to load one's baggage (wheely bag) in the cockpit or cabin.
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Isn't it about time we all either accepted the fact that we all have to go through the pointless sham called security screening and get on with it or make a stand. It seems that no one is prepared to do anything (Other than complain on here) about it.
It's an occupational hazard. Most people pass quickly through and with a little thought get no hassle.
If you complain to the Airport Authority they blame DFT, they blame TRANSEC, they blame the Government, they blame everyone else.
If you complain on here nothing happens except internal arguing and nothing gets resolved.
Just a thought. Not meant to insult anyone....
It's an occupational hazard. Most people pass quickly through and with a little thought get no hassle.
If you complain to the Airport Authority they blame DFT, they blame TRANSEC, they blame the Government, they blame everyone else.
If you complain on here nothing happens except internal arguing and nothing gets resolved.
Just a thought. Not meant to insult anyone....
Join Date: Nov 2000
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I work (landside usually) at an EU Eastern European capital city airport - I have just come back from seeing the head of security of the national border guard directorate who do passenger security at the terminal
Why?
Well I am (pax) security wise and security friendly I dont even wear a belt when going thru as a passenger and take my watch off and put it in my hand luggage etc. etc. - I am clean at LGW, LHR, PRG and on and on...
Consequently I almost never 'bleep/ and set the security machine off at any airport (as I have no metal on me) - the numb nuts at this particular airport have a policy of searching you quite rightly if the machine does 'beep'...and wait for it...also search you deliberately if you dont make it 'beep' as of course it must be wrong! (and associated long lines waiting to pass security as they end up searching everyone)
What the
!?
Yes I regularly point out what a load of they are and have finally vented/expressed my displeasure at the highest level!
Why?
Well I am (pax) security wise and security friendly I dont even wear a belt when going thru as a passenger and take my watch off and put it in my hand luggage etc. etc. - I am clean at LGW, LHR, PRG and on and on...
Consequently I almost never 'bleep/ and set the security machine off at any airport (as I have no metal on me) - the numb nuts at this particular airport have a policy of searching you quite rightly if the machine does 'beep'...and wait for it...also search you deliberately if you dont make it 'beep' as of course it must be wrong! (and associated long lines waiting to pass security as they end up searching everyone)
What the
!? Yes I regularly point out what a load of
they are and have finally vented/expressed my displeasure at the highest level!
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Massey AvMan,
You write:
"I was meaning that food could be tampered with prior to arriving at the airport. Our cleaners and caterers enter in vehicles via the apron and get wanded for metals going onto the aircraft (US flights only) but still have access to their vehicles which are only searched on a very random basis so could be concealing anything!"
My question is: Then why not search the vehicles instead of cofiscating my water?
You also write:
"Again, put nailclippers in hold luggage, they are not required for the duration of your flight."
If you mean that pilots should check in their bagage for every flight thatīs impossible because very many times, pilots fly a round trip and then change aircraft during a ground stop of 30 minutes, thereīs no time to check in
bagage and retrieve it at the bagage area between flights.
Besides, if the nailclipper is in the hold luggage when a pilot goes through screening, who knows what he will do with the dangerous nailclipper once he is airside?
This thread should be merged with the already existing thread:
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/2...screening.html
I recommend that you read that, Massey AvMan, that way you will know a lot more about why pilots complain about todays security show.
Probably, you will find that most of your questions have been answered in that thread.
You write:
"I was meaning that food could be tampered with prior to arriving at the airport. Our cleaners and caterers enter in vehicles via the apron and get wanded for metals going onto the aircraft (US flights only) but still have access to their vehicles which are only searched on a very random basis so could be concealing anything!"
My question is: Then why not search the vehicles instead of cofiscating my water?
You also write:
"Again, put nailclippers in hold luggage, they are not required for the duration of your flight."
If you mean that pilots should check in their bagage for every flight thatīs impossible because very many times, pilots fly a round trip and then change aircraft during a ground stop of 30 minutes, thereīs no time to check in
bagage and retrieve it at the bagage area between flights.
Besides, if the nailclipper is in the hold luggage when a pilot goes through screening, who knows what he will do with the dangerous nailclipper once he is airside?
This thread should be merged with the already existing thread:
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/2...screening.html
I recommend that you read that, Massey AvMan, that way you will know a lot more about why pilots complain about todays security show.
Probably, you will find that most of your questions have been answered in that thread.
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Security -of employment
Look, it's not about needles or nailclippers, belts or smelly shoes. The secuirty regime is about how the regulated pricing structure works and how Airports make money.
The regulator allows BAA to make a level of return on their investment in airport infrastructure. This includes the machines and staffing costs (uniforms training etc. etc. ) i.e the more they spend the more they can recover through airport charges - up to a point. And how can airlines suggest that lower security provision is a good thing?
As BAA were found to have under invested in security and have a track record of failures in this department they decided to go OTT in making up for past indiscretions - with the full backing of DfT, CAA et al. One of the biggest problems for BAA is mixing arriving and departing passengers - a move they adopted to maximise retail revenues.
So, next time you are being castigated for forgetting that bottle of Evian from the day before nestled in the bottom of your bag. Don't feel guilty that you may look like a terror suspect. Feel proud that you are keeping some pretty grumpy individuals in a uniform and a job. And let's be realsitic - what else could they do?
The secuity comb is a simple deterrent and a means of allying fear in some pax. Unfortunately, the way it is managed seems to piss everyone off and give the impression that any tom dick or harry with a toothpick and a bottle of water is a threat to national security.
Oh, and why do the operatives as ALL airports stand and chat about their personal life, disputes with colleagues and what they are going to eat for supper whilst they should actually be paying a bit more attention to getting the job done?
The sad fact is that there is no end of equipment available airside to any terrorist, acting alone or with others, that would allow them to potentially disrupt any flight or worse. At LGW, between Boots, WDF, harrods and Dixons, I am sure any one with some knowledge and practical skills could probably cause much more havoc on an aircraft than someone wielding a pair of nail scissors! Incidentally, evena rolled up in lfligt magazine is a dangerous weapon in the wrong hands! Beware the meals, they are lethal too!
The regulator allows BAA to make a level of return on their investment in airport infrastructure. This includes the machines and staffing costs (uniforms training etc. etc. ) i.e the more they spend the more they can recover through airport charges - up to a point. And how can airlines suggest that lower security provision is a good thing?
As BAA were found to have under invested in security and have a track record of failures in this department they decided to go OTT in making up for past indiscretions - with the full backing of DfT, CAA et al. One of the biggest problems for BAA is mixing arriving and departing passengers - a move they adopted to maximise retail revenues.
So, next time you are being castigated for forgetting that bottle of Evian from the day before nestled in the bottom of your bag. Don't feel guilty that you may look like a terror suspect. Feel proud that you are keeping some pretty grumpy individuals in a uniform and a job. And let's be realsitic - what else could they do?
The secuity comb is a simple deterrent and a means of allying fear in some pax. Unfortunately, the way it is managed seems to piss everyone off and give the impression that any tom dick or harry with a toothpick and a bottle of water is a threat to national security.
Oh, and why do the operatives as ALL airports stand and chat about their personal life, disputes with colleagues and what they are going to eat for supper whilst they should actually be paying a bit more attention to getting the job done?
The sad fact is that there is no end of equipment available airside to any terrorist, acting alone or with others, that would allow them to potentially disrupt any flight or worse. At LGW, between Boots, WDF, harrods and Dixons, I am sure any one with some knowledge and practical skills could probably cause much more havoc on an aircraft than someone wielding a pair of nail scissors! Incidentally, evena rolled up in lfligt magazine is a dangerous weapon in the wrong hands! Beware the meals, they are lethal too!
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For the definitive answer as to why it is necessary and the possible consequences, I would ask you to watch This trailer from 50 seconds in for the next 10 seconds.
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When going through the Concorde Hse security point at LGW I've also noticed that there now appears to be a security dept "suit" in residence throughout the day. Whether he/she is an observer or enforcer I'm not sure because they don't seem to do or say much. I'd like to think that they are ensuring security staff are playing by the same rules that we are but who knows.
Anyone else noticed that the "shoe exemption" cards have disappeared too? Obviously the shoes that I wear were considered unsafe so they were X-rayed, fair enough. Then they were deemed safe again, I was given a card telling me as much and could keep them on through security, great. Now they're not safe again and have to be X-rayed once more, strange
Anyone else noticed that the "shoe exemption" cards have disappeared too? Obviously the shoes that I wear were considered unsafe so they were X-rayed, fair enough. Then they were deemed safe again, I was given a card telling me as much and could keep them on through security, great. Now they're not safe again and have to be X-rayed once more, strange
Plus remove your belt instructions making everyone have to hold their trousers up.. Perhaps we should all go and buy a nice set of braces!
OLD RED DAMASK
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In Poland at the moment. Went Man-FRA-WAR today
On getting to Frankfurt plane late and as usual bussed to terminal.Had to get to A22 and not much time. Had to go through passport control twice then security. Got at gate rushed and pretty flustered. On asking Lufthansa staff why transfers are so difficult, got a very arrogant reply saying that if you English had signed up to everything that the rest of the Countries had, e.g. The Schenigen agreement it wouldn't be that hard. "It is for your own safety". WTF why are we treated like this????
On getting to Frankfurt plane late and as usual bussed to terminal.Had to get to A22 and not much time. Had to go through passport control twice then security. Got at gate rushed and pretty flustered. On asking Lufthansa staff why transfers are so difficult, got a very arrogant reply saying that if you English had signed up to everything that the rest of the Countries had, e.g. The Schenigen agreement it wouldn't be that hard. "It is for your own safety". WTF why are we treated like this????
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The last couple of minutes relate to airport security but the whole thing is funny!!
YouTube - Maz Jobrani
