Qf72. Do Airbus Must Stop Their A330/a340 Fleet.
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A330/340 will never be grounded doesn't matter what incident. Grounding of this type would cause bancrupcy of many airlines, especially in current economic climate.
There is one thing which most people know but never admit on a public: safety is not a priority number one in commercial aviation, and never been. Money are. Happy flying!
There is one thing which most people know but never admit on a public: safety is not a priority number one in commercial aviation, and never been. Money are. Happy flying!
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There is one thing which most people know but never admit on a public: safety is not a priority number one in commercial aviation, and never been. Money are.
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Not really fair to say that we non-pilots are all self-opinionated about how to fly one of them there new-fangled airyplanes.
As a 68 year-old professional engineer, public health specialist and so-called expert in occupational health and safety (with 1000's of hrs of obedient SLF behind my entero-gastric dysfunctions,) - there's one or two issues in this thread that I could take exception to old chaps. But I won't.
All I know is this: when I'm "self-freighting" and something goes amiss, the only people in the whole damn world that matter to me are the guys and gals up there behind the cockpit door. Period. Remember that. Stay rested - it's important!
As a 68 year-old professional engineer, public health specialist and so-called expert in occupational health and safety (with 1000's of hrs of obedient SLF behind my entero-gastric dysfunctions,) - there's one or two issues in this thread that I could take exception to old chaps. But I won't.
All I know is this: when I'm "self-freighting" and something goes amiss, the only people in the whole damn world that matter to me are the guys and gals up there behind the cockpit door. Period. Remember that. Stay rested - it's important!
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I am not quite sure, wether everybody is aware, that there are incidents every day very
similar to that one. For example: An A320 pulled up hard during cruise flight ignoring the pilots following full down input.
As this was no system fault, but action as designed
nobody even searched for a solution (overspeed protection after positive windshear).
Luckily there was nobody above. Only some injured pax.
In an effort to protect their planes from pilot errors Airbus introduced the computer
errors. There is no way to avoid that. You cannot have both.
similar to that one. For example: An A320 pulled up hard during cruise flight ignoring the pilots following full down input.
As this was no system fault, but action as designed
nobody even searched for a solution (overspeed protection after positive windshear).
Luckily there was nobody above. Only some injured pax.
In an effort to protect their planes from pilot errors Airbus introduced the computer
errors. There is no way to avoid that. You cannot have both.
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Baron737
There were no injured pax.
But system function was normal. The only disturbing fact was, this happened in Oceanic Airspace and was a A340 or A330.
The aircraft was more then 6 kts in the overspeed regime ( red band ). With full sidestick forward the aircraft stays in the level up to Vmo +15kts. Then protection commands the a/c to go in a slight climb to stay at Vmo + 6kt with a full sidestick down input.
If you already had applied full stick forward before going in the red band it even goes to Vmo+30kts and deplets to Vmo + 15kts. Remember this all happens in the red band.
I do not know how you fell with your Baron or 737 flying around in the redband.
Stick to the facts...
little story for you Baron 737:
By the way: the A320 when it was new once got stuck in a holding pattern and the crew could not get out of it anymore.
The FMS would not comply anymore and the A/C started responding after the total electric was shut down and the systems were repowered and in direct law the a/c landed in emergency configuration :-))
Don´t be a wimp, fly Airbus :-)
But system function was normal. The only disturbing fact was, this happened in Oceanic Airspace and was a A340 or A330.
The aircraft was more then 6 kts in the overspeed regime ( red band ). With full sidestick forward the aircraft stays in the level up to Vmo +15kts. Then protection commands the a/c to go in a slight climb to stay at Vmo + 6kt with a full sidestick down input.
If you already had applied full stick forward before going in the red band it even goes to Vmo+30kts and deplets to Vmo + 15kts. Remember this all happens in the red band.
I do not know how you fell with your Baron or 737 flying around in the redband.
Stick to the facts...
little story for you Baron 737:
By the way: the A320 when it was new once got stuck in a holding pattern and the crew could not get out of it anymore.
The FMS would not comply anymore and the A/C started responding after the total electric was shut down and the systems were repowered and in direct law the a/c landed in emergency configuration :-))
Don´t be a wimp, fly Airbus :-)
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we obviously are talking about different incidents. That is not astonishing, as you surely get one a week of that kind :-))
PS: what do you think is the normal action a pilot would do, when going into the red band during cruise flight ???? ...throttle back a bit ?? ....keep it simple
At least in a conventional plane you need a fraction of a second for that.
PS: what do you think is the normal action a pilot would do, when going into the red band during cruise flight ???? ...throttle back a bit ?? ....keep it simple
At least in a conventional plane you need a fraction of a second for that.
Last edited by Baron737; 5th Dec 2008 at 09:57.
Regarding the A320 "stuck" in a hold I seem to remember that the problem was caused by a relatively newly qualified crew believing that the R1 button on the FMGS worked like a Boeing FMS so they kept pushing it twice thinking they were "selecting" and then "executing" when in fact it actually "exits" the hold at the first push and "resumes" the hold at the second push."
Warning Toxic!
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I deleted my posts. If my posts are deleted on the Airbus thread and I get banned for a week, then I my posts on this thread are good enought to be deleted by myself as well! Might be difficult to understand, but deletions work two ways, and I can damage a thread too! Deletions are used not only to keep a thread under control, but to remove unwelcome ideas and suggestions. In fact, they are used for anything!
The abusive message I got from a Mod with the banning message helped in that decision! When there is no way of comeback, it is easy to send a banning message like 'spare us your repetetive bollocks'! We all have to understand that what counts is not the discussion. It is thread post numbers (even if they get deleted) and ad clicks, nothing else.
The abusive message I got from a Mod with the banning message helped in that decision! When there is no way of comeback, it is easy to send a banning message like 'spare us your repetetive bollocks'! We all have to understand that what counts is not the discussion. It is thread post numbers (even if they get deleted) and ad clicks, nothing else.
Warning Toxic!
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Well it's largely based on lack of knowledge with non-experts calling the shots! I agree totally. Any pilot discussion seems to get taken over until the pilots get exasperated and leave it! Some of the contributions are bizarre, starting with arcticfan, leading on to other non pilot contributions that get nowhere. Total waste of time, so I removed mine and kept out!
You want evidence- look at the Airbus thread! Page after page of ...... nothing.
You want evidence- look at the Airbus thread! Page after page of ...... nothing.
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Baron 737 tell me about your incident
What do you think the a/c is doing when flying in the red band ?
it is pulling the power out and believe me, it is fast on an airbus. At least much faster then on my Boeing/MD a/c.
With the most engines it is anyhow like this, you pull the power the engines need a little time to spool down. You can be faster with the throttles but the engines are still at higher settings.
But I do not know which incident you are referring to, but I definitely do not fly around in the red band.
And also not once a week for sure. If something like in the incident above happens it takes a while to reach the next 1000ft. But the greatest thread is a TCAS RA in the other a/c that will force them to leave their FL as well.
But tell me about your incident or what story somebody told you. If the A320 is far in the red band is demanding a shallow pitch up to get out of the red band it is o.k.. You still got TCAS and you will most probably not be climbing with a 1000ft per minute.
Waiting for your story....
it is pulling the power out and believe me, it is fast on an airbus. At least much faster then on my Boeing/MD a/c.
With the most engines it is anyhow like this, you pull the power the engines need a little time to spool down. You can be faster with the throttles but the engines are still at higher settings.
But I do not know which incident you are referring to, but I definitely do not fly around in the red band.
And also not once a week for sure. If something like in the incident above happens it takes a while to reach the next 1000ft. But the greatest thread is a TCAS RA in the other a/c that will force them to leave their FL as well.
But tell me about your incident or what story somebody told you. If the A320 is far in the red band is demanding a shallow pitch up to get out of the red band it is o.k.. You still got TCAS and you will most probably not be climbing with a 1000ft per minute.
Waiting for your story....
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Rainboe's reaction is completely understandable.
For whatever reason it seems to have been decided that only two forms of communication is to be used by the swayers. None or abusive.
For every action there is a reaction.
For whatever reason it seems to have been decided that only two forms of communication is to be used by the swayers. None or abusive.
For every action there is a reaction.
Warning Toxic!
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Look at arcticfan's 3 contributions of page 1 of this thread! I get criticised and buffooned by an anonymous 4 poster? If I hadn't been flying big jets for nearly 38 years with over 20,000 hours, I might have been a bit offended, but this anonymous idiot can march into a professional pilot forum and start telling me how wrong I am? When I am merely putting forward the established practice of the industry? Fun-ny! Why should any professional have to explain himself to such a fool? And why should I leave my posts up there gracing him with a discussion?
There seems to be no place here where discussions between professionals can take place without first being interfered with, then completely taken over, which means the forum is not satisfying its original function. It's just like ainlinersnet- a place for airline 'enthusiasts' to discuss matters themselves and squeeze out professionals!
And Moderator- send me another of your abusive banning messages and there will be trouble! But then this post won't really survive, will it?
There seems to be no place here where discussions between professionals can take place without first being interfered with, then completely taken over, which means the forum is not satisfying its original function. It's just like ainlinersnet- a place for airline 'enthusiasts' to discuss matters themselves and squeeze out professionals!
And Moderator- send me another of your abusive banning messages and there will be trouble! But then this post won't really survive, will it?
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Sadly Rainboe arctic fan represents a particluar mindset that exists in certain Ozzie males, you know the type...they seem to pop up in aviation in the UK quite a lot 
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Rainboe,
I agree with you. This forum is the first in the Flight Deck Forum on the Professional Pilots Rumour Network. I am frustrated as you about idiots who know nothing about the job making assine comments on this forum.
I know it has been said before but I will say it again. I strongly believe that on a Website with the name this one has, there is a place for a forum where professional pilots can discuss matters without stupid comments from people whose only interest seems to be, to be rude to and about pilots.
Danny, please think again about a forum restricted to people who can demonstrate that they are Professional Pilots and who can make comments on a forum that has "Rumours & News - Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots." By all means have a forum for people who want to be rude about the profession - but I think there will be very few people whose forum this is - professional pilots - taking part.
Beerdrinker
I agree with you. This forum is the first in the Flight Deck Forum on the Professional Pilots Rumour Network. I am frustrated as you about idiots who know nothing about the job making assine comments on this forum.
I know it has been said before but I will say it again. I strongly believe that on a Website with the name this one has, there is a place for a forum where professional pilots can discuss matters without stupid comments from people whose only interest seems to be, to be rude to and about pilots.
Danny, please think again about a forum restricted to people who can demonstrate that they are Professional Pilots and who can make comments on a forum that has "Rumours & News - Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots." By all means have a forum for people who want to be rude about the profession - but I think there will be very few people whose forum this is - professional pilots - taking part.
Beerdrinker
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Would it not be just as easy to ignore those who are not professional pilots and insist on pissing matches? Is that not what the Ignore List is for?
I speak as a non-professional pilot who tries his damnedest to be courteous and not put his oar in unless he actually knows something and would be devastated if he lost this resource.
I speak as a non-professional pilot who tries his damnedest to be courteous and not put his oar in unless he actually knows something and would be devastated if he lost this resource.
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The way to counter the cranks / FS drivers / newbies is with facts, numbers, and logic, not shouting and pi55ing matches. 
If they won't respond to reasonable dialogue, THEN stronger admonishment is in order.
If they won't respond to reasonable dialogue, THEN stronger admonishment is in order.
