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Stewardess demoted to First Officer

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Stewardess demoted to First Officer

Old 19th Nov 2008, 20:05
  #21 (permalink)  
MOLWillie
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shortfinals,

Why are you posting a re-hash of this incident?

Quoted in part from Flight Global:

"The 28 January 2008 incident is described as "serious" in a Irish Air Accident Investigation Unit synoptic report"

Time to bury it, shortfinals!
 
Old 19th Nov 2008, 21:07
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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So guys, If I manage to poison one of the pilots all I have to do is wait for you to ask for a CPL onboard to get a free pass to the flightdeck - please.....
Where did they ever "ask for a CPL onboard"

Have a read of the report... seems to me a very sensible analysis was made of who/what might be available that kept your concerns in mind

NoD
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Old 19th Nov 2008, 21:17
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by luvly jubbly
Are you lot for real??
Why would you ever need someone to "help to fly the aircraft??"
Because sometimes they know more than you in the situation. Never say never.

UAL 232.
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Old 19th Nov 2008, 21:45
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We had a simular situation where the capt passed away enroute and the F/O completed the flight. What made it unsual was that the F/O was flying on a medical wavier for sight in only one eye.
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Old 19th Nov 2008, 22:28
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Just out of interest what would be the situation if the scenerio was reversed and the FO decided that the Captain had become (mentally) incapacitated? Would the FO have the authority to take similar action with the Captain?
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Old 19th Nov 2008, 22:35
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Certainly!! I am not required to determine the "type" of incapicitation. Just that he has become incapacitated.
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Old 19th Nov 2008, 22:40
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Reminds me of that old gem spoken by an Asian Airline FO...

"Captain, if you go.... we all go"
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Old 19th Nov 2008, 23:18
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Oldtora

Will try to view that movie. Meantime, have another read of my post (ask the 3rd crew member to help)
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Old 20th Nov 2008, 03:27
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Wasn't there a recent case (within the last year, I think) of a flight where one of the flight crew was incapacitated and the other one asked if there was someone with pilot experience to come and sit up front. Said private pilot got to do the radio stuff while the PF did the rest. Opinion on here was that it was a good thing to have someone else at least vaguely qualified on the FD just because it's a good idea to have two people there.

As for one person flying, BA5390 shows it can be done, and under very adverse conditions.
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Old 20th Nov 2008, 07:37
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Willowfly, no he doesn't, if the capt does become (mentally) incapacitated the FO has no authority whatsoever to take control. He has to sit and watch a mentally unstable individual fly the aircraft into the sea while babbling about meeting god!!!!!!! Really, what do you think??????


You would not (under any circumstances) get a random PPL up front to help out. As mentioned before he could be a terrorist or even just a nut pretending to have a ppl who thinks, mmmhh fancy a go of this, lets press random buttons when the pilot isn't looking!!!!!
You would look for a COMPANY type rated pilot on-board to assist (with ID). Failing that you would then ask one of the members of cabin crew to remain with you, they would then read the checklists out. They have been taught how to do this. They would return to the cabin for landing unless requested by the remaining pilot to stay on the flight deck.
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Old 20th Nov 2008, 07:47
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There is probably a simple answer to this but if the co-pilot on this aircraft was going a bit doolally, how would you get him out of his seat to where he could be retstrained?

A pilot unconscious would be very difficult to remove, assuming he had to be, but a pilot who is suffering from say a breakdown and is perhaps a bit violent, just how could he ne removed without damaging or interfering with instruments etc?

Has this happened to you?
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Old 20th Nov 2008, 08:02
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I'm guessing that the Captain would have known that he had a hostie on board that had a CPL (assuming that he had flown with that crew-member previously and if he was an experienced captain with that company, it would make sense).

Pretty much a no-brainer that he would make a discreeet call and get her up there to help out. So she didn't have a current IR - or as Yahoo News reported it "her licence for reading cockpit instruments had expired."

WTF????

She obviously must have got in there and said "My God - what's this circle that reads 90, 180 and 270 mean?????!!!"


Bloody good job on everyone's behalf, in my books
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Old 20th Nov 2008, 10:56
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My goodness. Can't believe some of this. I can't remember a single time in the last 10 years, at least, where a cabin crew member has even asked a single question about the flight deck operation. They don't have a clue and, interestingly, don't want to know. The vast majority of cabin crew don't have any idea how a plane even stays in the sky and I don't have a problem with that as they are employed for a different function with a different skill set. And they are generally very good at that. Certainly better than I'd be. BUT, when it comes to this, we, as pilots, are all trained effectively to fly the aircraft single pilot to a landing at an appropriate airport. And that is what my airline expects and that is what I'll do. No problem. If you don't believe me re their lack of knowledge of how it stays in the sky then just ask them. I've done a survey over the last few years and about 95% had no idea. Of the 5% that said they could, about half said "the engines". Irrespective, I still respect them for the very difficult job they do under sometimes trying circumstances. Horses for courses.
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Old 20th Nov 2008, 11:12
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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This AAIU report seems completely lacking. The “findings” are just statements of the bleeding obvious, and at the end “This Investigation does not sustain any Safety Recommendations.” Did they actually try to find out what made the FO ill? Surely this is the whole point. They mention possible causes of incapacitation. Did they test for any of these? Did he have food poisoning? Was he suffering from fatigue? Did he have toxins in his system, e.g. from medication, or from contaminated cabin air? Was anyone else ill? etc etc.
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Old 20th Nov 2008, 11:15
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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So you're a flight simmer and you have been waiting all your life for a flight where one of the pilots becomes incapacitated and one of the cabin crew has a CPL!

How unlucky is that?
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Old 20th Nov 2008, 11:33
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It took until post #18 before the first shred of common sense appeared on this thread.

Indeed, some here have suggested "PPL to be called to do the radios", "cabin crew to read the checklist" and "Make a PA to the pax for a qualified pilot"

Perhaps we could be entertained by those who have posted thus to expand on the CRM/flight safety implications of their suggestions...
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Old 20th Nov 2008, 11:44
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Quote one post only!
"Willowfly, no he doesn't, if the capt does become (mentally) incapacitated the FO has no authority whatsoever to take control. He has to sit and watch a mentally unstable individual fly the aircraft into the sea while babbling about meeting god!!!!!!! Really, what do you think?????? "

Thanks for your response but no need for rolling eyes. I asked a simple question as I didn't know the answer and I got a perfectly adequate response from other posters above. I would consider it a hard judgement call depending on the severity of the Captains state and wondered merely if it were acceptable for a FO to say - "sorry mate but you are acting odd and I don't think you are up to it - move over I am taking control".
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Old 20th Nov 2008, 11:54
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So you're a flight simmer and you have been waiting all your life for a flight where one of the pilots becomes incapacitated and one of the cabin crew has a CPL!

How unlucky is that?
Very lucky for everyone concerned - especially the rest of the passengers who don't have delusions of grandure. She was infinitely more qualified to assist the remaining pilot in whatever tasks he asked her to, whilst he flew the aircraft perfectly competently himself.

Having some wide-eyed flightsim wannabe getting all excited about all the knobs, dials and switches is the very bottom of the list of 'assets' needed in the flight deck in such circumstances. What use would there be on the flight deck for one extra knob anyway!
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Old 20th Nov 2008, 12:03
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Quote from today's Daily Telegraph:-

"The first officer began conversation which was rambling and disjointed in nature and not at all in character," the report said.

Sounds like one of my descent and approach briefings!

Seriously I hope he makes a full recovery. Statistics say, I believe, that at least one in five of us will suffer mental illness at some stage of our lives.

Well done to all the crew - pilot incapacitation is a serious issue and when it happens it's not as easy as many may think.
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Old 20th Nov 2008, 12:08
  #40 (permalink)  
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Wasn't there a recent case (within the last year, I think) of a flight where one of the flight crew was incapacitated and the other one asked if there was someone with pilot experience to come and sit up front.
Yes llondel, there was such an incident on a COA 757, the pilot in the left seat was getting his first IOE when he suffered a heart attack and died during the climbout, the IOE instructor was very experienced and could have easily flown the aircraft by himself, but he choose to have someone else up front to help out. The pilot that passed away happened to be a friend of mine.

Great job by the AC flight.
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