Air France Pilot Strike - where's the news?

[KitKat747]

Kelly

Where do you get your figures from about BA pensions?

[Me Myself]

I presume you mean 6000 euros AF pension per month= 72000 euros pa + 150,000 euros as a lump sum? On top of this the French state pension.

I wish I got that much after 35 years with my company.

On the subject of French state pension. Currently one has to contribute 40 years to get 100% pension, am I correct in thinking the proposal is to increase the contributing years by just 1 year to 41?

The increase by one year pissed a lot of people off since it will force them to work until.......70.........;on a volontary basis and of course in crappy jobs that pay little money and bad working conditions. Not much to be thrilled about.
The State pension is the same for everybody, pilot, doctor or cleaning lady. The " professional " fund is what makes the difference.........when you have one.
The figure I gave you is the whole package, State+CRPN+lump sum.

I've just had a panic attack reading the above post regarding BA. Abdominal breathing does zippo.
Did you smoke pot all night or ar these figure for real ??

Odd that no one from Lufthansa, KLM or BA found it fitting to contribute on this thread. They must have a really good deal to stay under the radar like they're doing.

[Shaka Zulu]

It's only the APS members in BA that have chrystalized (and keep going after the 55 retirement increase); their pensions that might come close to a 100k.

Me however, I'm looking at 35years in BA with a predicted pension of 35k.(retiring age 65!!)

Times have changed. People like Kelly Smunt find it hard to acknowledge that BA is not the same as it was 15 years ago, let alone 5!!
Bitterness is all our community needs to drive T&C's further down the drainhole

[Me Myself]

It's only the APS members in BA that have chrystalized (and keep going after the 55 retirement increase); their pensions that might come close to a 100k.

Can you explain "APS members " ??

[Witraz]

Me Myself,

I am BA. Joined at 31 DEP. I am currently 51. With the revamped pension I would have left at 55 with an annual pension of about £29 000, If I get to stay until 65 that will grow to about £55 000 plus lump sum. As the pension has been messed with already, I hold no illusions that it might not be tampered with again. With the 65 retirement I have a choice whether to stay or go. The 55 retirement pension figure does not look too healthy to me.
Fortunately for me I enjoy my job and flying. I have read the comments about a life outside aviation and I do have one. I breed horses and whats more am lucky to use my job to visit ranches around the world. Ask me if I will feel the same in 5 years time? I have no idea! Only time will tell, but until then I hope I can continue to enjoy my job and my passion with the horses and continue mixing the two.
There are no guarantee's in life. My father retired after 35 years as a training captain on B707 with Air Zimbabwe. His pension is now in the zillions of dollars, just a shame it equates to worthless and he has not seen a penny for over 5 years.
Oh and if you look at the pensions offered to new recruits with BA, they are really really not very good.
So if you are fortunate to have a good pension, feel blessed and hope the powers that be will leave it intact for you to enjoy.

PS. You could be wise like me and invest seriously in horses. I get a garanteed daily return. Now if I could just change the pile of Manure into some cash

[Shaka Zulu]

APS (Airways Pension Scheme)was the first setup of the pension scheme then it was reformed and the majority of members in BA at the moment are in NAPS (New Airways Pension Scheme). However NAPS has been closed to new joiners for the last 4 years or so (correct me if I'm wrong).
NAPS/APS are final salary pensions.

Any new joiners (4yrs ago till now) will be on BARP, which is a Defined Benefit Scheme. Ai the employer and employee pay a percentage of pensionable pay into a fund.
I'm in this scheme and as predicted before there is a significant reduction in forecast pension projections when you compare it with APS/NAPS.
It's the way it is....But people stare themselves blind at those individuals in BA that have been there a long time. (good for them, I won't get bitter and twisted over it)

BA is a completely different animal these days, directed by the wishes of shareholders who require wealth creation / dividence

[Me Myself]

Witraz

Thanks a lot for yor very interesting post.
Investing in horses ??? just when I lost 50 $ on donkey that was supposed to be a champion at the Melbourne cup ?? Think not although I love horses. My ( girl ) friend bet on another one because she liked the colour of the jockey's outfit.............and made 60 $ !!
There are however not very many like you, on my side of the channel anyway. Much more troubling is the way this whole affair unfolded. I've never had many doubts about France being a banana republic sometimes, but this one really takes the cake.
Thanks all for the very interesting details.

would have left at 55 with an annual pension of about £29 000, If I get to stay until 65 that will grow to about £55 000 plus lump sum. As the

How lumpy is the lump sum ??

[Kelly Smunt]

Witraz are you a Captain or First Officer ?

[Kelly Smunt]

There are I believe 3 schemes in BA : APS (figures quoted) NAPS (an inferior scheme but still good ) and BARP (the pits).If you joined in the last 4 years this is what you get.Supply and demand for Pilots.The old story.
£120,000 a year quoted was from a mate retiring 5 years ago and will be more than this now with inflation as APS is linked to RPI,Naps I think is capped at 4 %.

[Witraz]

Me Myself
Off hand I can't remember how lumpy but lumpy enough to be more than I have ever had before. Depends on what age you retire and how much you take as a percentage.
I'm too broke to bet on horses . I have a stallion in race training and hoping he wins enough to pay back the diesal to get him home from the racetrack. Yeah OK, I'm sure put a £1 on him in his first race.

Kelly
I am a Captain Long Haul.

[Jean-Lill]

Is there going to be further action by the AF pilots now the 4 days strike is over, or did they achieve something?

[Me Myself]

Jean Lill................are you for real ????
You are killing me and my tummy hurts from so much laughing !!!

Achieved anything ???? read my lips : NOTHING !!!!
What is going to happen ???? NOTHING !!!
SNPL has been run over by a truck and apart from going down french style it's achieved nothing. it just made a point.
For any Anglo interested in results it's meaningless, however here it's a bit different but I grant you there's nothing to be happy about.

[Jean-Lill]

Be myself,

I 'm for real alright but I am pleased I made you laugh.

If nothing else has been achieved the strike has made interesting reading on these threads.

I am told the longer we work the younger we remain so look on the bright side. It may not happen anyway. All the BA people seem happy to consider the options to work on so perhaps there is something positive to be gained in doing so.

Someone said to me yesterday the new 58 year olds are now the 65 year olds. I am 58 but think I am 38 until I look in the mirror!!!

Best of luck anyway.

[Me Myself]

I am told the longer we work the younger we remain so look on the bright side

Are you sure ?? Cuz right now I feel like I've been hit by a
bus having spent 14 hours flying back from...........na, can't tell, too telling.
I don't think waking up so wasted you don't remember what day it is or even where you are is a sign of youth; or is it ?
I am quite pleased with what I see in the mirror and I'd like to keep it that way )
Cheers

[rageye]

Is there going to be further action by the AF pilots now the 4 days strike is over?

Most Dutch pilots hope it's over now. The Airline's (AF-KLM) profit over the first 6 months already has evaporated due to the high costs.
The costs of this strike has not even been calculated yet.
Going on strike is good some times and the French have it as a right in their constitution.
On the other hand the usage of the right to go on strike should be well considered.
Striking against your company which is already experiencing severe financial turbulence, while the French government is issuing the unwanted rule making makes no sense to me.

[Me Myself]

Most Dutch pilots hope it's over now. The Airline's (AF-KLM) profit over the first 6 months already has evaporated due to the high costs.
The costs of this strike has not even been calculated yet.
Going on strike is good some times and the French have it as a right in their constitution.
On the other hand the usage of the right to go on strike should be well considered.
Striking against your company which is already experiencing severe financial turbulence, while the French government is issuing the unwanted rule making makes no sense to me.

No sweat, they do ??? Well that's too bad !! Maybe you guys would care to swap your coushy 56 years old retirement along with your pension contract ??? I swear you'd never hear from us again. We'd be more than happy to let you sweat until 65.
Makes no sense to you hey ?? Well, guess what ?? Does to us !!
Toodooloo !

[Longhitter]

Me Myself,

The big difference being that the KLM pilots pension fund is financially sound and the retirement age has been negotiated with the company and the government, enabling the retirement age of 56. The fact that you lot do not seem to be able to have a normal discussion without striking first is testament to your own and your government's autism...

Never seen a nickname that covers a personality so accurately by the way, if all your colleagues think alike no wonder 89% of the french public disapproved of the reason for the strike and consider you spoiled brats.

Surely you must be able to make your point with the government without hurting your company financially in these troubled times and p*ssing off the passengers who you need to pay for your salary.

[Me Myself]

[quote]Surely you must be able to make your point with the government without hurting your company financially in these troubled times and p*ssing off the passengers who you need to pay for your salary.[/QUOTE

Obviously not !!! But hey thanks for those very inspirational words of wisdom but if you had followed just a tiny wincy bit of what happened you would know that :
- The government promised it would negociate with every party before any decision was made ( letter Dec 2007 )
- No talks were held but a swift amendment was voted in the middle of the night which, YES, pissed the living hell out of us and. Unless burning parliament becomes legal.............I'm afraid we'll have to keep striking, which, by the way is right there in the manual............I mean the Constitution. You know, the stuff that binds a nation together and states does and don't.
- Pension fund is financially sound. The reform that took 4 years to come up with is only waiting the governement go ahead to be implemented. we're still waiting.
As to my name, you obviously are not a movie buff. It is only the title of a very nice movie starring Rachel Griffith, who happens to be a very talentfull Aussie actress. Don't read anything more into this and spare me both your psycho-bable and your PC.

Unless you keep informed and updated, you would be truly and fully inspired to keep your mouth shut.

[rageye]

I'm afraid we'll have to keep striking

I hope the AF pilots will come to the conclusion that it makes no sense to hurt your own company, when the government makes an unreliable move.

What is the position of the AF-management in this matter?
Are they willing to negotiate a better pension scheme that is less dependant on government rules?

[petermcleland]

KS..."APS is linked to RPI,Naps I think is capped at 4 %."

NAPS is linked to RPI (I think September or October value) up to a limit of 5%.