Ryanair incident Ciampino.
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Yeah,
there are every type you could hope (or not) to meet there.
Not too sure it isn't 45989/Kremin/5tarbuck land, could anyone really be bothered mind you, just to give credence to their point of view by having 3 user names ?
Well, stranger things have happened & CaptK certainly does have some strange views on the world he inhabits, his "Alitalia" contributions being a case in point.
there are every type you could hope (or not) to meet there.
Not too sure it isn't 45989/Kremin/5tarbuck land, could anyone really be bothered mind you, just to give credence to their point of view by having 3 user names ?
Well, stranger things have happened & CaptK certainly does have some strange views on the world he inhabits, his "Alitalia" contributions being a case in point.
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Ps2 or 3
600 odd posts in a similar vein............tedious
Dunno who the other two you refer to are. Please enlighten
Strong parallels with Anglo Irish Bank will emerge with your next results methinks.
Pretty close to the endgame I'd say
600 odd posts in a similar vein............tedious
Dunno who the other two you refer to are. Please enlighten
Strong parallels with Anglo Irish Bank will emerge with your next results methinks.
Pretty close to the endgame I'd say
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Ref Irish banks/RYR see my response on post 388, I certainly don't discount the possibiliy, as I said " nothing is sacred".
Ref the "other two" versions of you, line 3 post 391.
Your other alter egos or just kindred spirits ?
Ref the "other two" versions of you, line 3 post 391.
Your other alter egos or just kindred spirits ?
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Cpt PS
Fair enough.My point though is about how our profession has been devalued over the years by nitwits who are prepared to pay to fly regardless of the longer term implication for pay and conditions.
I would take advantage of the same fecwits if I was running any business that needed a steady supply of (willing) cannon fodder.
Shame is the model only works in a continuously expanding scenario.
The game is up for Micko
The recession has killed the expansion, UK MARKET AND CURRENCY now dead in the water
Shedloads of a/c coming.............
Fair enough.My point though is about how our profession has been devalued over the years by nitwits who are prepared to pay to fly regardless of the longer term implication for pay and conditions.
I would take advantage of the same fecwits if I was running any business that needed a steady supply of (willing) cannon fodder.
Shame is the model only works in a continuously expanding scenario.
The game is up for Micko
The recession has killed the expansion, UK MARKET AND CURRENCY now dead in the water
Shedloads of a/c coming.............
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It's a little bit a "generation" thing. The guys coming into this business now are the " I want it & I want it now" or "me me me" generation, so regretably see it right & proper to by- pass the years it took me to get to the right hand seat of a jet. Instant gratification is the name of the game for their ilk.
Sad but true, and Ryanair and many other operators are only too happy to exploit it, and sell them what they want.
I totally agree, the business model is heavily dependant on expansion, and certainly if you look at the pax figures at the base I am familiar with, they are about 15% down on this time last year ( that is what is admitted so could be a lot worse) when 15% up would be the norm. So, in reality 30% down on what would normally be expected.
It will indeed be interesting to re-visit this in 1 years time, and I don't disagree, there is a possibility it could all end in tears. The tears though will be shared by many bods not connected to RYR too. Imagine what dumping around 2000 737 qualified pilots on the market would do to the terms & conditions elsewhere, not pretty methinks.
Sad but true, and Ryanair and many other operators are only too happy to exploit it, and sell them what they want.
I totally agree, the business model is heavily dependant on expansion, and certainly if you look at the pax figures at the base I am familiar with, they are about 15% down on this time last year ( that is what is admitted so could be a lot worse) when 15% up would be the norm. So, in reality 30% down on what would normally be expected.
It will indeed be interesting to re-visit this in 1 years time, and I don't disagree, there is a possibility it could all end in tears. The tears though will be shared by many bods not connected to RYR too. Imagine what dumping around 2000 737 qualified pilots on the market would do to the terms & conditions elsewhere, not pretty methinks.
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"Fair enough.My point though is about how our profession has been devalued over the years by nitwits who are prepared to pay to fly regardless of the longer term implication for pay and conditions."
Having to pay for your own training benefits noone (other than the airlines), least of all the poor souls footing the bill to do the job they want to do.
Having to pay for your own training benefits noone (other than the airlines), least of all the poor souls footing the bill to do the job they want to do.
Paying for Training
Having to pay for your own training benefits noone (other than the airlines), least of all the poor souls footing the bill to do the job they want to do.
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Almost everyone who goes beyond high school pays for his training. My parents and I paid for my degree so that I could get the job I wanted. What's wrong with that?
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Fact, very few if any airlines now sponsor cadets,
Fact2 lots of people still want to do this job
or ? who knows.
Therefore if you want it you have to pay for it.
Doesn't mean you are the creme de la creme if you get sponsored, or a duffer if you pay.
I have flown with guys who reinforce this stereotype, and just as often with those (from both sides ) who completely defy this (warped) logic.
It's just a numbers thing at the moment,same percentage of capable folk, few few sponsorships.
Fact2 lots of people still want to do this job
or ? who knows.Therefore if you want it you have to pay for it.
Doesn't mean you are the creme de la creme if you get sponsored, or a duffer if you pay.
I have flown with guys who reinforce this stereotype, and just as often with those (from both sides ) who completely defy this (warped) logic.
It's just a numbers thing at the moment,same percentage of capable folk, few few sponsorships.
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Final Report (December 2018) on Ciampino Birdstrike November 2008
Did someone get away with handing in their homework 10 years late?: http://www.ansv.it/cgi-bin/ita/Report%20EI-DYG.pdf
PS Original PPRuNe thread closed and forgotten, but the report is worth a read.
PS Original PPRuNe thread closed and forgotten, but the report is worth a read.
Ball flock at low altitude
too many birds ingested into core due to low rpm on approach followed by an advance in power request while the birds were still being processed in the compressor..
I'm not sure that many engines could handle this combination, so best to reduce the occurrence rate in some manner.
I don't recall anything similar in combination since
too many birds ingested into core due to low rpm on approach followed by an advance in power request while the birds were still being processed in the compressor..
I'm not sure that many engines could handle this combination, so best to reduce the occurrence rate in some manner.
I don't recall anything similar in combination since
Ball flock at low altitude
too many birds ingested into core due to low rpm on approach followed by an advance in power request while the birds were still being processed in the compressor..
I'm not sure that many engines could handle this combination, so best to reduce the occurrence rate in some manner.
I don't recall anything similar in combination since
too many birds ingested into core due to low rpm on approach followed by an advance in power request while the birds were still being processed in the compressor..
I'm not sure that many engines could handle this combination, so best to reduce the occurrence rate in some manner.
I don't recall anything similar in combination since
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Sailivi, would it not make more sense to read the report first and comment afterwards. They DID have enough energy to do a normal landing as they where in fact a bit high, a bit fast and they had a tailwind. They did not have a total loss of thrust either, the engines maintained approx 41% N1 (while commanded at TOGA thrust). The first point of ground contact was almost halfway down the runway. The (very understandable) decision to Go Around led to a stall and a hard landing in a stalled condition. The moral of the story is if you have to go through a flock of birds in short final it is better to continue to land with engines at low power than trying to GA at GA power. Partly because at low power most of the birds will go just through the fan and at high power they will go through the hot section.
I am sure I would not have done any better than the crew involved nevertheless it is interesting to learn what could have worked.
I am sure I would not have done any better than the crew involved nevertheless it is interesting to learn what could have worked.
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Just an SLF but it's a good report, it's evident that until this one there wasn't a great deal of advice on what to do in the event of a birdstrike at that stage of flight and the aircraft manual was updated following the incident with the emphasis to consider continuing the landing if you were still likely to make it.
Also good to see that Ryan policy allowed for manual flight, if that still the same now, one would hope so given the amount of recent botched landing attempts where some crews lack basic skills due to always using the automatics.
Also good to see that Ryan policy allowed for manual flight, if that still the same now, one would hope so given the amount of recent botched landing attempts where some crews lack basic skills due to always using the automatics.
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Just an SLF but it's a good report, it's evident that until this one there wasn't a great deal of advice on what to do in the event of a birdstrike at that stage of flight and the aircraft manual was updated following the incident with the emphasis to consider continuing the landing if you were still likely to make it.
Also good to see that Ryan policy allowed for manual flight, if that still the same now, one would hope so given the amount of recent botched landing attempts where some crews lack basic skills due to always using the automatics.
Also good to see that Ryan policy allowed for manual flight, if that still the same now, one would hope so given the amount of recent botched landing attempts where some crews lack basic skills due to always using the automatics.
Why do passengers think we always make automatic landings ?
Weird.
Because that is often part of the spin put on our job by some in the media and some in management, who like to portray our job as being a doddle. Also, sadly because some of our colleagues who in the days of flight deck visits and now on social media like to tell everybody that their big toy is really "cool".
Ben_s:
Just for Ben_s's benefit, and to give him some perspective I'll state that personally as a long haul pilot I always I don't think I've done an Autoland (outside of the simulator) in at least 5 years...I doubt many here routinely do autolands, regardless of the airline they work for .
Ben_s:
Also good to see that Ryan policy allowed for manual flight, if that still the same now, one would hope so given the amount of recent botched landing attempts where some crews lack basic skills due to always using the automatics.
...... because so many posts on this forum reflect the views of pilots who believe that flying skills have been degraded, or lost, by the continuous use of automatics through many phases of flight. I am sure you would not have to trawl too far to find a post saying "I used to insist on hand flying my approach but now Co.x discourage/forbid it"
Of course, the degradation of skills is only observable in other pilots.....
Of course, the degradation of skills is only observable in other pilots.....
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Well, on the A320, you can only hear the Cavalry Charge in rows 1-3, and even then, it goes against popular expectations. Those that hear the Cavalry Charge on final usually have it followed by a smooth landing -- "musta been Otto Pilot taking us in". On the other hand, those that hear the Cavalry Charge on rollout, usually went through some pea soup and are now looking for their teeth in the seatback following some hard braking, "Damn humans. Shoulda trusted the computer".
On other A/C types, the A/P disconnect sound is hardly audible from seat 1C, let alone the back of the cabin. Isn't it amazing what computers can do these days?.
On other A/C types, the A/P disconnect sound is hardly audible from seat 1C, let alone the back of the cabin. Isn't it amazing what computers can do these days?.