737 veered off landing runway at Arrecife

[Bat Fastard]

Avman,
Reference departures, on the 320 you are pretty much limited to 3tons below normal mtow ( 74 ish instead of 77 tons) if using 03 but can get off 21 at 77 tons with a tailwind and a good flex.

[John Giles]

No one has mentioned the timing of this incident...
The crew had been "up all night" before this approach.
Who knows how much "proper" rest they got before the duty.

You can't just decide...well I'm flying through the night i better get some sleep during the day"...your body clock just dosen't want to know..

[dc9-32]

Just for added interest, I remember being up in Guime village in 1988 (was in the process of buying a villa), and from there we could look down the mountain side with a great view of the airport. On this occassion, we watched an Iberia B727-200 take off from what was then RWY04. Nothing unusual in that, except what followed shocked the s***t out of us. It turned LEFT and proceeded (with a huge amount of noise) to climb parallel with the contour of the mountain and then screamed through the (large) gap in the peak and headed away..........

Check the Jepps and a local map and put 2 and 2 together to get your own visual impression !!!!

[El Grifo]

Dogone or maybe not

The fun continues here at ACE.

Just picked up a friend who arrived on LS545 from NCL at 12.27
Aircraft had to do a last minute go around due to "dogs on the runway"


Anyone have any further info, justme maybe ??

[MPH]

El Grifo are you sure they were dogs? I thouhgt they were rabbits!!!

[justme69]

Lol.

Indeed a dog found his way through the metal fence yesterday, I think it was. Police phoned in ATC informing it had been seen inside the perimeter.

It took FOREVER to find him, affecting tons of flights. There were three waiting to land on the air when it was reported.

Firesquad finally cornered him and he left through the same fence opening he presumely came in.

The fence was noted for a patch repair.

There was even a false alarm when someone phoned in ATC saying it had been found. Just as a Binter was granted permission to takeoff, another call came in saying it was the wrong dog: that one belonged to some airport worker in the military area. The "real" wild one was found few minutes later.

Lots of lol.

Catching a run-away dog is not as easy a task as it seems, specially in a large area. Funny how such a small critter can cause so much trouble.

[aguadalte]

FOB

Does any one knows what was the FOB after landing?

[Pilot Pete]

Tubby Linton

Any landing on 21 will invariably involve touching down deeper than usual unless you get very close to the terrain on the approach.

Err, why? If you follow the approach procedure and fly a constant descent rate crossing 6d at 2000' and then 400ft per nm you will arrive in the right place. Fly the correct airspeed too and if anything, a correctly flown 'steeper' approach has a corresponding touchdown point which is less than 1000ft into the runway. Chambery is again my example, where it even mentions in the briefing notes that the touchdown point due to the steep glideslope is circa 600' (from memory) in from the threshold.

Your theory is incorrect, it would be a shallower approach which would shift the touchdown point further into the runway.

I suspect it is aircraft flying the steeper approach and either flaring too early or having excess airspeed which leads to what you describe.

PP

[tubby linton]

Must be an optical illusion then PP.Always seem very adjacent to the terrain on this approach,perhaps because it slopes at a similar angle to the papis.

[iwhak]

As a non pilot 'risk of being shot again' a correctly flown steep approach as in this case for terrain avoidance, surely would have a lower ground speed. Having no headwind component the requirment to have a stabilised approach 'speed and height' becomes critical as does the touch down zone. One final point, if, as it appears they were flying all night, why take on a challenging approach with a quartering tail wind, to a difficult airfield, for the sake of a couple of minutes to route downwind for the active runway with no headaches and avoid lots of paperwork?

[justme69]

I'm told the "optical effect" that you are flying too close to terrain is very common in that approach and lots of flights "miss" it and shoot for a go around.

Very common, no problems, no shame, easy turn around w/o further complications.

Of course, there are those who insist they can make it even if "a bit" high, "a bit" fast and "a bit" off course. Not counting "a bit" of tail wind or crosswinds.

And sure enough, they needed "a bit" more of braking and "a bit more" runaway.

[piton]

iwhak - good comment and I agree totally. As a professional pilot you need to know your limitations and should only go for the "fun" visual when you are well rested and on your game. If you have flown through the night - with probably not enough sleep before signing on - then you should make use of any and all aids available - like an ILS to 03.

This was a demonstration of someone's overconfidence or possibly over macho attitude. Hope he is doing some serious reflection now.....

BTW I was in Arrecife yesterday morning but luckily left before the dog scare! Couldn't see any traces of where the a/c went off.

[captplaystation]

I have done the opposite rotation GLA to the Canaries & back at night & was always fairly wasted by the end of it ( & I was 16 yrs younger then ) so I can imagine they were not feeling too "top-gun" prior to this approach.
As the old saying goes " A superior Captain is the one who uses his superior judgement to avoid situations which may require the use of his superior skills"
Shooting for 5mins earlier in bed turned into more than a few sleepless nights for these poor guys finally

[Capt.Paul Skinback]

Definitely a culture issue here. Even on the same night as this incident we were chased into BCN by Air Europa 738 who landed past us at considerable speed in the wet as we made our way along 2nd high speed exit onto parallel taxiway. He can only have been 1.5 miles behind and we had maintained standard approach speeds.

[Buzz Lightyear]

I've thrown one away from 21 just as recently as a couple of months ago. Tubby is correct the perception is you are awfully close to the ground the whole way down the latter part of the approach, and thats not including the volcano that fill the first officers window at about 1800'.

What is not always appreciated is in a strongish headwind the ground rises steeply just a mile or so out on finals so you can be on height at the correct speed but you encounter a huge topographical ridge lift-band so all of a sudden you're high and pushing over to maintain the profile. Speed runs away, so the power comes of, rate of descent increases even more and voila.... !!!

I've watched Spanish aircraft going in there on 21 and my toes have curled at some of the deep landings. Definately a culture issue.

[Doors to Automatic]

From a thread running on the spotters' forum here is an example of a approach which should have arguably been thrown away (the Finnair 757).

Aviation Video: Various Aircraft - Various Airlines

Had this gone the sameway as the ACE landing it would have ended in catastrophe as there is a sheer drop at the end. It would appear that the plane had still not touched down at the turn-off where most landing aircraft taxi off the runway!

[wee one]

Christ on a bike, stop making excuses for these muppets (joint responsibility dont ya know).Stop all this geeky analysis. Are there any pilots left on this excuse for a forum?

22 yrs in the business and 12 in euro charter, numerous trg details into 21 at ACE in 3 different jet types and widths and guess what, I havent run off the end,etc etc etc . not luck..mitigation. Tired my arse. .
If youve been there, and you arent a spotter , youll appreciate my comments.
Ego , compliant atc, rambling in Spanish, innappropiate sequencing ,and we put up with it every year,
God I hope my application for the job of piano player in a whorehouse is sucessful.
Some times this site and its sanctimonious spotter attitide gets on my pubes.

[justme69]

... and just to make you happier, the pilots are claiming an autothrottle failure ...

Now the CIAIAC is gonna have to go through the trouble of analyzing the performance from the DFR and "prove" that the autothrottle was fine

The investigation is gonna take a while.

I guess some pilots just can never make a mistake or a bad judgement call, like we all do in our daily jobs every once in a while.

The usual disclaimer: nobody flat-out rules a failure of any kind. It's just that it looks a lot like the cause could be a different one. Each person is entitled to its opinion and any opinion could ultimately be wrong.

[captplaystation]

" Autothrottle failure " Hmn ? like. . . prior to my dirty dive I forgot to disconnect it ?
Seems a strange approach to be using A/T, I would imagine manual inputs would be the order of the day here. Anyway, if it doesn't do what you want, as promptly as you want ,that is what the disconnect button is for. You are supposed to be in charge of the aircraft not vice-versa.

[fireflybob]

Had this gone the sameway as the ACE landing it would have ended in catastrophe as there is a sheer drop at the end. It would appear that the plane had still not touched down at the turn-off where most landing aircraft taxi off the runway!

Doors to Automatic, I seem to recall that an a/c did go off the end at Funchal (at night) many years ago with much loss of life!

If the wheels are not on the ground by the correct point then GO AROUND!

Just found a link:-

PROBABLE CAUSE: (translated from Portuguese:
The Commission of Inquiry established as a probable cause of the accident the impossibility to decelerate the aircraft and to stop in the length of the runway due to, probably, the following factors:
- Very bad weather conditions at the time of landing;
- Possible existence of conditions for hydroplaning;
- Landing at a speed of Vref + 19 knots;
- Landing long with a long "flare";
- Sudden directional correction after touch down on the runway.