KD-Avia belly landing
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hoerikwaggo
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Wheels-up landing damage
I'm posting a question here apologising for the intrusion...... I'm a retired legal academic with various interests in aviation who wanted to fly, was frustrated by his father, and when at last was able to afford starting a PPL after retiring ended up with a Teflon aorta; so I'm the saddest "wannabe" lurking here.... I'm a permanent student pilot but having fun anyway
I read all serious aviation material I can lay my hands on and am thus slightly better informed than most passengers.
Something I have not understood is that the damage caused to the belly of a big, heavy a/c making a controlled wheels-up landing seems to be so slight -- absent fire, of course. I know it's severe, but the structure of the fuselage must be colossally strong to withstand the impact and abrasion. The skin, which I have assumed is relatively fragile, is not totally ripped off and the stringers, longerons and frames not so buckled and torn that the fuselage is distorted totally. Passengers and crew seem to be able to disembark and I am under the impression that the hull is not a total loss.
I have seen light a/c which have had such experiences, and note that one of my instructors planned a wheels-up landing with his student so neatly that the engines on the Piper were stopped on finals and propellors set horizontal. The damage was confined to scrapes. In view of the light weight and robustness of an airframe designed with training in mind, this seems to be understandable; but making things bigger yet able to withstand such impacts with comparable damage seems to require weight that increases at a rate that would make flight impossible -- for the same reason that an ant six feet long is impossible.
I should be very grateful if someone with a few moments to spare could explore these issues?
Incidentally, I have always found the undercarriage of a big a/c to be the most interesting part of the airframe; my ambition is to visit somewhere like Boeing or Airbus to see exactly how something can be made which has to withstand such gigantic and violent stresses yet can be so light. I shudder as I walk away from the Tomahawk, standing there with tears in its eyes, nursing its aching feet, and looking at me reproachfully but undamaged.... surely the undercarriage of a big jet is the most wondrous engineering imaginable?
I
I read all serious aviation material I can lay my hands on and am thus slightly better informed than most passengers.
Something I have not understood is that the damage caused to the belly of a big, heavy a/c making a controlled wheels-up landing seems to be so slight -- absent fire, of course. I know it's severe, but the structure of the fuselage must be colossally strong to withstand the impact and abrasion. The skin, which I have assumed is relatively fragile, is not totally ripped off and the stringers, longerons and frames not so buckled and torn that the fuselage is distorted totally. Passengers and crew seem to be able to disembark and I am under the impression that the hull is not a total loss.
I have seen light a/c which have had such experiences, and note that one of my instructors planned a wheels-up landing with his student so neatly that the engines on the Piper were stopped on finals and propellors set horizontal. The damage was confined to scrapes. In view of the light weight and robustness of an airframe designed with training in mind, this seems to be understandable; but making things bigger yet able to withstand such impacts with comparable damage seems to require weight that increases at a rate that would make flight impossible -- for the same reason that an ant six feet long is impossible.
I should be very grateful if someone with a few moments to spare could explore these issues?
Incidentally, I have always found the undercarriage of a big a/c to be the most interesting part of the airframe; my ambition is to visit somewhere like Boeing or Airbus to see exactly how something can be made which has to withstand such gigantic and violent stresses yet can be so light. I shudder as I walk away from the Tomahawk, standing there with tears in its eyes, nursing its aching feet, and looking at me reproachfully but undamaged.... surely the undercarriage of a big jet is the most wondrous engineering imaginable?
I
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Alabama
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Incidentally, I have always found the undercarriage of a big a/c to be the most interesting part of the airframe; my ambition is to visit somewhere like Boeing or Airbus to see exactly how something can be made which has to withstand such gigantic and violent stresses yet can be so light. I shudder as I walk away from the Tomahawk, standing there with tears in its eyes, nursing its aching feet, and looking at me reproachfully but undamaged.... surely the undercarriage of a big jet is the most wondrous engineering imaginable?
Chemistry Data :
Carbon 0.38 - 0.43 Chromium 0.7 - 0.9 Iron Balance Manganese 0.6 - 0.8 Molybdenum 0.2 - 0.3 Nickel 1.65 - 2 Phosphorus 0.035 max Silicon 0.15 - 0.3 Sulphur 0.04 max
Principal Design Features AISI 4340 is a heat treatable, low alloy steel containing nickel, chromium and molybdenum. It is known for its toughness and capability of developing high strength in the heat treated condition while retaining good fatigue strength.
Applications Typical applications are for structural use, such as aircraft landing gear, power transmission gears and shafts and other structural parts.
http://www.suppliersonline.com/prope...p#RelatedNames
Per
Carbon 0.38 - 0.43 Chromium 0.7 - 0.9 Iron Balance Manganese 0.6 - 0.8 Molybdenum 0.2 - 0.3 Nickel 1.65 - 2 Phosphorus 0.035 max Silicon 0.15 - 0.3 Sulphur 0.04 max Principal Design Features
AISI 4340 is a heat treatable, low alloy steel containing nickel, chromium and molybdenum. It is known for its toughness and capability of developing high strength in the heat treated condition while retaining good fatigue strength. Applications
Typical applications are for structural use, such as aircraft landing gear, power transmission gears and shafts and other structural parts. http://www.suppliersonline.com/prope...p#RelatedNames
Per
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Chemistry Data :
Carbon 0.38 - 0.43 Chromium 0.7 - 0.9 Iron Balance Manganese 0.6 - 0.8 Molybdenum 0.2 - 0.3 Nickel 1.65 - 2 Phosphorus 0.035 max Silicon 0.15 - 0.3 Sulphur 0.04 max
Principal Design Features AISI 4340 is a heat treatable, low alloy steel containing nickel, chromium and molybdenum. It is known for its toughness and capability of developing high strength in the heat treated condition while retaining good fatigue strength.
Applications Typical applications are for structural use, such as aircraft landing gear, power transmission gears and shafts and other structural parts.
Carbon 0.38 - 0.43 Chromium 0.7 - 0.9 Iron Balance Manganese 0.6 - 0.8 Molybdenum 0.2 - 0.3 Nickel 1.65 - 2 Phosphorus 0.035 max Silicon 0.15 - 0.3 Sulphur 0.04 max
Principal Design Features AISI 4340 is a heat treatable, low alloy steel containing nickel, chromium and molybdenum. It is known for its toughness and capability of developing high strength in the heat treated condition while retaining good fatigue strength.
Applications Typical applications are for structural use, such as aircraft landing gear, power transmission gears and shafts and other structural parts.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Russian Federation UHPP
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Yes, I have to agree with skyworker. We have this safety report too, and it clearly says it was a pilots' mistake. They were too busy preparing to land with higher speed because of problems with flaps and didn't read the landing check-list. Lack of experience and flight hours...
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Circumstances of the event: According to the preliminary information, in the process of fulfilling the landing approach from [MKpos]-243 before the third turn with the installation by the crew of exhaust gear rod of flaps from position 2 to position 5 because of the wear and tear of signaling about the asymmetrical extension of flaps operated blocking their release. By this time [VS] was located at the height of circle (400 m), crew reported to dispatcher, that because of the problems with the extension of flaps was made the decision to continue flight at the height of 400 meters without a decrease. In the process of circling flight the crew carried out the necessary actions according to QRH B -737-300 with this malfunction: set the exhaust gear rod of flaps to position 2, opened the signaling of flaps and chassis [vyklyuchatalem] of " GROUND PROXIMITY FLAP|GEAR Of iNHIBIT" , it calculated required and that located landing distances for the data of conditions. Subsequently after the fulfillment of actions according to QRH, were read the divisions of the map of the control checks to the division of " LANDING CHECK Of lIST". [VS] by this time, after carrying out circling flight, was located in the region of the 3rd turn. On by prelanding straight night, under the conditions of shower precipitation, turbulence and concentration for fulfilling the landing on wet VPP with large landing weight and flaps not in the landing position, crew lost control of landing gear lowering and was not executed the division of the map of the control checks of " LANDING CHECK Of lIST" , Copilot erroneously reported to dispatcher about the readiness of crew for the landing in this situation. Landing with not discharged by landing gear struts was as a result produced. After stoppage [VS] in the limits [IVPP] the passengers were evacuated on the ladder. There was no fire.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Russian Federation UHPP
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It is a translation of the above-mentioned safety report issued by Rosaviatsia (one of the structures in the Russian aviation administration), so it is a official source. I can post here a original text in Russian if you want.
