BALPA against ID Cards - TUC Congress
>>I support the principle of ID cards, especially if it makes it difficult/impossible for illegal entrants to enter our fair land!<<
>>I'll seriously consider supporting a National Identity card if it will be developed by private enterprise for Government and incorporate the following.<<
>>I have no political objection to a national ID card as all the information that will be on it is already held on one file or another by the government.<<
>>Looking in my wallet i have half a dozen cards, so whats another,i have nothing to hide.<<
I am British and my family have always lived in these islands. It is up to me when I choose to identify myself to the Government. Furthermore, I do not want my life recorded and tracked on a so called 'National Identity Register'.
Under these circumstances I refuse to have an ID Card.
Do you think it appropriate that the Government should:
A. Impose a civil penalty?
B. Refuse me an airside pass?
C. Refuse me a passport?
>>I'll seriously consider supporting a National Identity card if it will be developed by private enterprise for Government and incorporate the following.<<
>>I have no political objection to a national ID card as all the information that will be on it is already held on one file or another by the government.<<
>>Looking in my wallet i have half a dozen cards, so whats another,i have nothing to hide.<<
I am British and my family have always lived in these islands. It is up to me when I choose to identify myself to the Government. Furthermore, I do not want my life recorded and tracked on a so called 'National Identity Register'.
Under these circumstances I refuse to have an ID Card.
Do you think it appropriate that the Government should:
A. Impose a civil penalty?
B. Refuse me an airside pass?
C. Refuse me a passport?
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Looking in my wallet i have half a dozen cards, so whats another,i have nothing to hide.
If it keeps all the undesirables out of this country and lowers my taxes-great.
If it keeps all the undesirables out of this country and lowers my taxes-great.
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I am British and my family have always lived in these islands. It is up to me when I choose to identify myself to the Government. Furthermore, I do not want my life recorded and tracked on a so called 'National Identity Register'.
Can anyone identify the point from which we ceased to be a free society?
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This system will never work.
Passports are already supposed to do this - they don't.
People travel on fake passports - so the Government think this system is fool-proof? Easy - the Bad Guys will get people working on the inside. This system will be subverted like all the others. It's a question of when, not if.
The only issue is the sheer amount of data that will be held on file (and none of it will do anything to increase security in any form). The Government has shown over and over and over again it is completely incapable of handling such a system, so on that basis alone, it should not be permitted.
"Ihren Paperien, Bitte" indeed!
The very fact they don't even do security checks on certain air-side workers (foreigners) because it is "too difficult" shows how much they really care about security. If it is too difficult to check their background - you don't employ them!!! To hell with political correctness/anti-discrimination laws - they're unsuitable candidates.
>> and the inevitability that "show me your ID card" will become a stock in trade for
>> every council jobsworth everytime they want to put you in your place.
Councils have far too much power. I think it is decentralized Government by stealth IMHO. They're looking at giving them yet more powers, this time to check your e-mails and web history (in the name of crime prevention/detection, of course)! I hope they have fun with my encrypted e-mail! 
ECAM Actions.
Passports are already supposed to do this - they don't.
People travel on fake passports - so the Government think this system is fool-proof? Easy - the Bad Guys will get people working on the inside. This system will be subverted like all the others. It's a question of when, not if.
The only issue is the sheer amount of data that will be held on file (and none of it will do anything to increase security in any form). The Government has shown over and over and over again it is completely incapable of handling such a system, so on that basis alone, it should not be permitted.
"Ihren Paperien, Bitte" indeed!
The very fact they don't even do security checks on certain air-side workers (foreigners) because it is "too difficult" shows how much they really care about security. If it is too difficult to check their background - you don't employ them!!! To hell with political correctness/anti-discrimination laws - they're unsuitable candidates.
>> and the inevitability that "show me your ID card" will become a stock in trade for
>> every council jobsworth everytime they want to put you in your place.
Councils have far too much power. I think it is decentralized Government by stealth IMHO. They're looking at giving them yet more powers, this time to check your e-mails and web history (in the name of crime prevention/detection, of course)!
I hope they have fun with my encrypted e-mail! ECAM Actions.
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I had 2 colleagues-
1. Jim, Welsh caucasian, born in India to english parents whilst father based in India.
2. Raj, born in UK to Indian parents with UK passports
Invariably, Jim was 'checked' by passport control, whilst Raj was not, based on place of birth!
To fly inside the UK I prefer to carry a £7 CitizenCard, rather than my more valuable passport, as my only available photo ID. It is accepted as proof of ID for opening bank accounts & proof of age (50+) It will suffice until eligible for a free bus pass next year.
It seems military ID (eg F1250) may give you access to bases covered by the Official Secrets Act but not a budget hotel room in Woking.
As a free-born citizen I was incensed to be asked for photo ID to fly within my own Country, when I could travel overland without hindrance.
Work-related Security ID I can accept but not one linked to my life history!
If 'papers' are demanded, I think I still have my post-war ID card.
The proposed Childrens' database should also be resisted, as should the DNA database for arrested but not convicted suspects.
I predict the first forged UK ID card will be circulating within weeks of the first compulsory card, which the Govt promised would not be before 2010-15?
Sorry if this is thread creep.
1. Jim, Welsh caucasian, born in India to english parents whilst father based in India.
2. Raj, born in UK to Indian parents with UK passports
Invariably, Jim was 'checked' by passport control, whilst Raj was not, based on place of birth!
To fly inside the UK I prefer to carry a £7 CitizenCard, rather than my more valuable passport, as my only available photo ID. It is accepted as proof of ID for opening bank accounts & proof of age (50+) It will suffice until eligible for a free bus pass next year.
It seems military ID (eg F1250) may give you access to bases covered by the Official Secrets Act but not a budget hotel room in Woking.
As a free-born citizen I was incensed to be asked for photo ID to fly within my own Country, when I could travel overland without hindrance.
Work-related Security ID I can accept but not one linked to my life history!
If 'papers' are demanded, I think I still have my post-war ID card.
The proposed Childrens' database should also be resisted, as should the DNA database for arrested but not convicted suspects.
I predict the first forged UK ID card will be circulating within weeks of the first compulsory card, which the Govt promised would not be before 2010-15?
Sorry if this is thread creep.
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I don't need an ID card.........I know who I am.
If I say my name out loud it is checkable......anything fake is not going to pan out.
I do not believe ID cards are the prudent way forward as I am one of the "salute the man, not the uniform" subscribers.
Just my two bobs worth you understand.
If I say my name out loud it is checkable......anything fake is not going to pan out.
I do not believe ID cards are the prudent way forward as I am one of the "salute the man, not the uniform" subscribers.
Just my two bobs worth you understand.
Last edited by p7lot; 6th Sep 2008 at 17:02.
"Ihren Paperien, Bitte" indeed!
I think the Geheime Staatspolizie used to to demand "Ausweis bitte!"
but nevertheless it amounts to the same thing - we are heading towards a police state..........
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The notion that many civil servants voted for and would sustain this bunch of morons because they owe a debt of gratitude to this government, as expressed by a fellow forumite, is laughable.
Most civil servants that I've met resent the politicisation of their roles by this government and the PCS union is about to ballot it's members regarding strike action around this years pay awards - we'll see how grateful the civil service is then when the ballot results come in.
As repugnant as it might sound - I think the only reason things are not as bad as they could be is because of the civil service. I qualify this by looking at the 'elected' representatives from all parties that were voted in by the MORONIC idiots that put them there in the first place.
You and I.
Who'd work for less this year than last? Seems that civil servants are not immune from this either - and while there are roles that we could probably manage without we clearly need civil servants doing jobs for the apparent greater good than merely profit.
In essence, what I'm saying is that no-one is immune from the harm and chaos this government has created and caused. Insidious attacks on just about everything that distinguishes a free society from one that oppresses, attacks on the family, attacks on the rule of law, attacks on soveriegn rule, attacks on the union of our constituant states, attacks on the working man, attacks on our armed forces - one could go on.
It must be resisted - at the ballot box - and by every union or congress articulating freedom of expression that exists in the UK today be it local or national.
The edge of the abyss is upon us - what we do next determines those perceived freedoms and hard fought for priviliges.
I'm off to New Zealand because I only see more of the same - I hope I'm wrong. I might get 20 years there before the same old ****e cripples that country.
Most civil servants that I've met resent the politicisation of their roles by this government and the PCS union is about to ballot it's members regarding strike action around this years pay awards - we'll see how grateful the civil service is then when the ballot results come in.
As repugnant as it might sound - I think the only reason things are not as bad as they could be is because of the civil service. I qualify this by looking at the 'elected' representatives from all parties that were voted in by the MORONIC idiots that put them there in the first place.
You and I.
Who'd work for less this year than last? Seems that civil servants are not immune from this either - and while there are roles that we could probably manage without we clearly need civil servants doing jobs for the apparent greater good than merely profit.
In essence, what I'm saying is that no-one is immune from the harm and chaos this government has created and caused. Insidious attacks on just about everything that distinguishes a free society from one that oppresses, attacks on the family, attacks on the rule of law, attacks on soveriegn rule, attacks on the union of our constituant states, attacks on the working man, attacks on our armed forces - one could go on.
It must be resisted - at the ballot box - and by every union or congress articulating freedom of expression that exists in the UK today be it local or national.
The edge of the abyss is upon us - what we do next determines those perceived freedoms and hard fought for priviliges.
I'm off to New Zealand because I only see more of the same - I hope I'm wrong. I might get 20 years there before the same old ****e cripples that country.
Last edited by qwertyplop; 7th Sep 2008 at 18:07.
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It would also seem worth pointing out that when all of us airside workers have these wonderful ID cards, there will have to be scanners/readers at all airside locations to check us in/out.
So now all the logistics are in place; who is to say that from a given date anyone wishing to leave or enter the UK will have to have an ID card or not get in/out. A family wanting to go on holiday will all have to have ID cards.
This is just a government scam to track us, tax us and generally overstep the role of the government of a supposedly free society.
To work airside I have already got several forms of ID.
This has been dragged out now for years and it is just the pride of those imbeciles in Westminster who do not want to appear on the 6 O'clock news announcing another U-turn. Bulldozer politics.
6
So now all the logistics are in place; who is to say that from a given date anyone wishing to leave or enter the UK will have to have an ID card or not get in/out. A family wanting to go on holiday will all have to have ID cards.
This is just a government scam to track us, tax us and generally overstep the role of the government of a supposedly free society.
To work airside I have already got several forms of ID.
This has been dragged out now for years and it is just the pride of those imbeciles in Westminster who do not want to appear on the 6 O'clock news announcing another U-turn. Bulldozer politics.
6
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And after ID cards we get the DNA samples which are rumoured to be required to hold an airside pass in the near future...
"Hello Mr Alwaysairbus, could you please fill this DNA sample bottle up quickly before i can pass you you're new ID card"
I wonder if you're allowed to take your sample through the x ray machine if it's under 100ml's???
"Hello Mr Alwaysairbus, could you please fill this DNA sample bottle up quickly before i can pass you you're new ID card"
I wonder if you're allowed to take your sample through the x ray machine if it's under 100ml's???
It would also seem worth pointing out that when all of us airside workers have these wonderful ID cards, there will have to be scanners/readers at all airside locations to check us in/out.
Oh no there won't .. that's one of the points to objecting ...
The new national ID card will have nothing at all to do with your airside access .. you can quite happily leave it at home, you don't need it for your work and it won't be asked for/required.
It's simply that airside aviation workers have been picked on as an easy group to coerce into having it.
By making it a condition of being allowed airside access to have a new National ID Card (even though it won't be passed or/used to to grant access) it means you have to get one or give up your job.
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The big problem is that once you have an ID card, you are who it (and the computer) says you are. If any of the data are wrong, then you will have a big problem trying to prove it is incorrect. It also works the other way, with a fake ID. If it claims you are Mr. J. Bloggs, then that is who you are, even if in reality you are Mr. O. B Laden.
There will be errors, there will be fakes; it's only a matter of time.
There will be errors, there will be fakes; it's only a matter of time.
We stopped being a free society in September 2001 when everybody was assumed to be guilty and a potential threat to security. So much for the pressumtion of innocence.
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Rwy in Sight
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Just a thought, but as a BALPA member when are they going to ask me what I think about ID cards. I was under the distinct impression that they were supposed to represent me, and therefore my views.I am am pro ID cards, for many reasons.
Is this just another vehicle for those at the top of BALPA to push there own agendas in search of that MEP job, or similar ??
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If some airside workers will not be required to have ID cards (as a condition for keeping their job) because they fall into the "too difficult category", then on the face of it this would seem to be blatant discrimination. Must have missed something.