BALPA against ID Cards - TUC Congress
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BALPA against ID Cards - TUC Congress
BALPA will be at next weeks TUC Congress. They are moving against pilots being used as guinea pigs for the UK ID Card scheme:
Well done chaps! Hope this wakes the Home Secretary up.
Link to the agenda: http://www.tuc.org.uk/congress/tuc-15221-f0.pdf
45 National Identity Scheme
Congress notes that the Government proposes to require workers in aviation to enrol in the National Identity Scheme in 2009. Congress has deep concerns about the implications of the National Identity Scheme in general and the coercion of aviation workers into the scheme in particular. Congress sees absolutely no value in the scheme or in improvements to security that might flow from this exercise and feels that aviation workers are being used as pawns in a politically led process which might lead to individuals being denied the right to work because they are not registered or chose not to register in the scheme. Congress pledges to resist this scheme with all means at its disposal, including consideration of legal action to uphold civil liberties.
British Air Line Pilots’ Association
Congress notes that the Government proposes to require workers in aviation to enrol in the National Identity Scheme in 2009. Congress has deep concerns about the implications of the National Identity Scheme in general and the coercion of aviation workers into the scheme in particular. Congress sees absolutely no value in the scheme or in improvements to security that might flow from this exercise and feels that aviation workers are being used as pawns in a politically led process which might lead to individuals being denied the right to work because they are not registered or chose not to register in the scheme. Congress pledges to resist this scheme with all means at its disposal, including consideration of legal action to uphold civil liberties.
British Air Line Pilots’ Association
Link to the agenda: http://www.tuc.org.uk/congress/tuc-15221-f0.pdf
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I support the principle of ID cards, especially if it makes it difficult/impossible for illegal entrants to enter our fair land!
It is about time we adopted some of the American practices on immigration and stopped allowing absolutely anybody in. If ID cards assist that, then I am all for them.
So come on pilots, prove the system is workable not an abject refusal to co-operate.
It is about time we adopted some of the American practices on immigration and stopped allowing absolutely anybody in. If ID cards assist that, then I am all for them.
So come on pilots, prove the system is workable not an abject refusal to co-operate.
manrow
So you are worried about illegal immigrants entering "our fair land"...sorry if I missed something but even now you need a passport to enter the UK through official channels so what difference does the ID card make? As far as us adopting American practices AFAIK even post 9/11 our US Cousins have yet to adopt ID cards.
Ultimately why should pilots, Cabin Crew and all other airside workers be the guinea pigs used to "prove" this scheme is workable? We have already ID's, we're already screened/vetted, and probably also carry passports every time we go to work. Unlike most of the UK population we are easily traced and easily tracked ( swipe in anyone). No doubt a refusal to carry these new cards we will lead to us being out of work....and in the meantime it's impact on the illegal immigration you seem to be worried about will be what precisely ??
If you really want to control illegal Immigration then I suggest you look at EU/UK Border Control, rather than giving me yet another bleedin piece of plastic I'll have to carry in my wallet. In the meantime you're obviously keen on the idea - why don't you volunteer for the trials - and persuade some of our MPs to do the same...
So you are worried about illegal immigrants entering "our fair land"...sorry if I missed something but even now you need a passport to enter the UK through official channels so what difference does the ID card make? As far as us adopting American practices AFAIK even post 9/11 our US Cousins have yet to adopt ID cards.
Ultimately why should pilots, Cabin Crew and all other airside workers be the guinea pigs used to "prove" this scheme is workable? We have already ID's, we're already screened/vetted, and probably also carry passports every time we go to work. Unlike most of the UK population we are easily traced and easily tracked ( swipe in anyone). No doubt a refusal to carry these new cards we will lead to us being out of work....and in the meantime it's impact on the illegal immigration you seem to be worried about will be what precisely ??
If you really want to control illegal Immigration then I suggest you look at EU/UK Border Control, rather than giving me yet another bleedin piece of plastic I'll have to carry in my wallet. In the meantime you're obviously keen on the idea - why don't you volunteer for the trials - and persuade some of our MPs to do the same...
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Over the weekend a Polish baggage handler was arrested for stealing from hold luggage at BHX - no doubt he'd have been given an ID card based on him already holding airport ID
Whatever happened to 5 year checkable work history/CRO checks?
S78
Whatever happened to 5 year checkable work history/CRO checks?
S78
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Foreign nationals are not required to undergo CRC procedures. The CRC is designed to raise £50 from every conceivable UK national to run a quango in a Scottish marginal constituency. It has no value.
Whilst BALPA discuss this, I hope they will be raising the issue of the Treaty Of Rome, which we appear to have discovered to be a can of worms.
Whilst BALPA discuss this, I hope they will be raising the issue of the Treaty Of Rome, which we appear to have discovered to be a can of worms.
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Citizen Smith
I'll seriously consider supporting a National Identity card if it will be developed by private enterprise for Government and incorporate the following. (I've used Australian terms, but hopefully they translate OK)
Passport
Employment ID and security access code
All credit, debit, charge and in-store cards
Medicare ( Health Insurance )
Health , Pension and Senior Citizen entitlement stuff
Driving, flying, yachting and related licences
Social Club and Motoring Organisation membership
Put that lot on a single card and you will get my attention.
Otherwise forget it. It's just another card, and I have too many now.
Passport
Employment ID and security access code
All credit, debit, charge and in-store cards
Medicare ( Health Insurance )
Health , Pension and Senior Citizen entitlement stuff
Driving, flying, yachting and related licences
Social Club and Motoring Organisation membership
Put that lot on a single card and you will get my attention.
Otherwise forget it. It's just another card, and I have too many now.
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I have no political objection to a national ID card as all the information that will be on it is already held on one file or another by the government. The big strength of this is that a number of different computer systems have to be entered to access the data.
By having the data all held in one place it only takes ONE computer to be hacked into for ALL your personal information to fall into the wrong hands.
It is on purly practal grounds that I object to the ID card, in my view it is an expensive reduction in security by putting all the eggs in one basket.
I respect the views of those who see this as a civil liberty's issue and fully support the BALPA stand but for me the overriding case for stopping the ID card is the ability of the government to guarantee the security of the information on the data base.
By having the data all held in one place it only takes ONE computer to be hacked into for ALL your personal information to fall into the wrong hands.
It is on purly practal grounds that I object to the ID card, in my view it is an expensive reduction in security by putting all the eggs in one basket.
I respect the views of those who see this as a civil liberty's issue and fully support the BALPA stand but for me the overriding case for stopping the ID card is the ability of the government to guarantee the security of the information on the data base.
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A and C, It doesn't take a computer to be hacked. How many computers, disc or pen drives been mislaid in the last year? Should the person who "found" the said item want to sell it for profit.... Lots of info has gone missing.
This is like reducing the drink driving limit from 0.08 to 0.05. Maybe it's a good idea if they can enforce/operate it properly, but if they can't enforce/operate it now, why will introducing something more limiting be of benefit?
ID cards are like locked doors that only keep honest people out, they will be a hinderance for the people who don't need them in the first place.
Chips
This is like reducing the drink driving limit from 0.08 to 0.05. Maybe it's a good idea if they can enforce/operate it properly, but if they can't enforce/operate it now, why will introducing something more limiting be of benefit?
ID cards are like locked doors that only keep honest people out, they will be a hinderance for the people who don't need them in the first place.
Chips
I'm not in favour of these ID cards as I believe they'll do nothing to improve border control, airport security or anything else I can think of.
I might reconsider my position if they were introduced first for members of the Houses of Commons and Lords followed by all local Government Office Holders and finally all employees of National and Local Government departments and agencies.
There... those conditions should ensure that I never have to reconsider my position.
At the back of my mind throughout all this is an uneasy feeling that we are walking eyes wide open into George Orwell's future vision .....
Congratulations to BALPA and I'll certainly be trying to get my union to take the same line.
I might reconsider my position if they were introduced first for members of the Houses of Commons and Lords followed by all local Government Office Holders and finally all employees of National and Local Government departments and agencies.
There... those conditions should ensure that I never have to reconsider my position.
At the back of my mind throughout all this is an uneasy feeling that we are walking eyes wide open into George Orwell's future vision .....
Congratulations to BALPA and I'll certainly be trying to get my union to take the same line.
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Just been announced on the local news that BHX will be one of the first airports where these ID cards will be issued
Being local news it was short on detail
, but the question is : who pays for them?
Me?
My employer?
The Airport authority?
The government?
S78
Being local news it was short on detail
, but the question is : who pays for them?Me?
My employer?
The Airport authority?
The government?
S78
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Big Brother & his mates
The other concern here is that our own government HMRC has been involved in "stealing" private banking records and details by paying bribes to employees. Not really interested in getting into the rights and wrongs of going after tax dodgers but it does set a moral precedent. Now the question is...... dear uncle Putin, Bush or any other hatter decides they also want info and find a suitable candidate to grease? Splash out the dollars and you've got the lot. And forget about data security. Data is stored for access and as the old saying goes, many ways to skin a cat. And they are yet to prove that an ID system will actually improve aviation safety and trust they never will. They will try the old...."ah.. erm ... in the interests of security we cannot divulge where it may help"... nice one boys and girls. Passport & Licence current pass etc... work just fine. Please would the good folk in the DFT and home office just take a long holiday and enjoy their pensions without bothering us.
Skyloone
Skyloone
The ID card scheme is good for the Civil Service. It will enable further staff to be employed who owe their jobs and thus their allegiance to the government. It will enable Civil Servants to plan continual expansion, more staff, more responsibilities, more career path, higher inflation-proofed pensions, etc. There will be significant revenue from the scheme but the Civil Servants will expect to spend all that on their own administration of it.
The fact that it hacks everyone else off and is useless in control of security is neither here nor there.
The fact that it hacks everyone else off and is useless in control of security is neither here nor there.
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WHBM, brilliant : reminds me of a Yes Minister episode, the one where the hospital was deemed up and running because it had 500 administrators and no patients. Plus ca change......
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Amber One - it just shows how we have been conditioned by this government to assume that high taxation is the only way.
It seems a change of government here would ensure the death of ID cards, which don't frighten me, and also a reduction in overall taxation if you believe the noises coming from the Conservative party!
It seems a change of government here would ensure the death of ID cards, which don't frighten me, and also a reduction in overall taxation if you believe the noises coming from the Conservative party!
