Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Ryanair Loss of Pressurisation 25th Aug

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Ryanair Loss of Pressurisation 25th Aug

Old 26th Aug 2008, 12:23
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I have just listened in full to the intrepid explorers interview, I find it unbelieveable, more so that the beeb actually broadcast such drivel...

So he states non of the masks worked, how does he know?

He states that 80% of pax knew they were going to die, All 80% were wrong then!

He helped his son with the mask (I thought they weren't working!)

The masks did not inflate, as has been stated he should put down his copy of explorers worls and listen to the brief!!!

Finally, some of the masks wouldnt have worked, if they hadnt been "tugged"! And the reason they have 4 in a row of 3 is for redundancy in case some don't work, (and for the hostie if she decides to take a wander down the aisle)

Typical sensationalism!
ballyctid is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2008, 12:25
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Esher, Surrey
Posts: 466
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
BBC items

BBC News at one still peddling this story about claims that some of the oxygen masks not working, along with a natty graphic of the aircraft 'plunging' from 30,000 feet.
It was a vast improvement on the original 9.04 minutes Radio 4 item
5.40 minutes of our Arctic expert telling how the oxygen failed etc.
MOL did pretty well explaining that all proceedures were correctly carried out.

The original item.
BBC NEWS | UK | Forced landing for Ryanair flight

If you have the time then the full Radio 4 item is on the above link.

A new BBC item posted this morning

BBC NEWS | UK | What to do when planes lose pressure

Last edited by beamender99; 26th Aug 2008 at 12:36. Reason: Added new BBC link
beamender99 is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2008, 12:25
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Doncaster
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
As SLF, it surprises me that everytime there seems to be an emergency somebody complains that there hasn't been an announcement from the Flight Deck or Cabin Crew. Are these people totally thick? What on earth do they think these peole are doing during an emergency It completely passes them by that they've survived to complain because of the professionalism of these people they're complaining about.

On the other hand let's not start doing what we complain the media does, i.e. give out the wrong story. News at One on BBC1 actually explained why it might be that pax think their oxygen masks aren't working when in fact they are ... something to do with the much lower pressure of the oxygen than normal air pressure?
Teevee is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2008, 12:25
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In a house
Age: 38
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
From what I remember from my very first flying lesson:

AVIATE, NAVIGATE, COMMUNICATE
easy1 is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2008, 12:29
  #45 (permalink)  

FX Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Greenwich
Age: 67
Posts: 900
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
SLF here. This really is a fuss about nothing.

The thread is now about crap reporting.

Well done to the crew, you did what you had to do well it seems to me.

One thing it would be interesting to know about was what actually caused the incident.
angels is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2008, 12:29
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Still on earth
Age: 79
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I have just had a discussion (??) with my wife, that I lost as usual, as to the reasons why the cabin crew/flight deck could not communicate over the PA system as to what the problem was.
She would not accept that the crew were carrying out procedures to ensure the passengers were safe which included going down through the cabin to ensure the more elderly, infirm or very young ones were cared for, or bringing the aircraft to a more acceptable altitude.
To her, everything should have waited until an announcement to calm the passengers had been made



rtb
Return to base is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2008, 12:30
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Where would you like me to live??
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Uneducated people sensationalising what was really a well dealt with, well practiced drill.

Well done to the crew, a/c on the ground and the worst outcome seams to be some poor people with sore ears. Deffo good enough for a days work.

Guys have you not realised that there is no news at the min the papers/tv's are fighting to make a good story out of what ever they can a year maybe two ago this story would have been burried on page six or seven and the only people interested would be us crew that looked at it because we wanted to learn from it. Dont get involved in the pettyness of the media these days stay professional and keep doing our jobs..... ie get the people on the ground alive not over informed and experts on the situation. Comms with the pax is important but very much second to your real job.
Todders is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2008, 12:33
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: In my head
Posts: 694
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I don't recall anything in a Ryanair safety briefing about whether you might have difficulty in breathing normally once you have "pull the mask down sharply" put the thing on and attempted to "breathe normally".

Moronic not to have known? Well I don't suppose I'll ever know until I try it, either.

As someone blessed with a knack of discovering how things work when it ain't immediately obvious, I too have often wondered how sharply you have to pull and exactly what type of device is being broken/snapped open/triggered when you do (without buggering it up I mean).

As for the Yahoo report, terrified passengers? Yes I imagine I would be quite fearful myself. Plummet (=To drop swiftly, in a direct manner)? Yes we seem to agree that's the drill, do we not?

Having not been in this situation, can I also just ask whether the plummet usually begins before during or after the oxygen masks are dropped in a controlled manner & donned variously ?

S&T, with possibly moronic tendencies, but still don't know for sure.
slip and turn is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2008, 12:36
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
To be fair nearly all media outlets have shown a fair bit of balance in this, stating that it was handled pretty much by the book.
JamesT73J is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2008, 12:40
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: England
Age: 39
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
This appears to be a much more sensible report of what happens by the BBC: BBC NEWS | UK | What to do when planes lose pressure
Etalon is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2008, 12:42
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: Oxy mask use

In answer to some questions about mask use;

All 3 or 4 masks in a PSU are connected to the oxygen candle by long supply hoses. Each mask is fitted with a lanyard (thin string to the layman!) connected to a single small pin that is inserted through the firing pin of the candle. When the masks drop their weight is supported only by the lanyards, the supply hoses being much longer. The action of pulling any mask pulls on the lanyard which in turn pulls out the small pin from the firing handle which starts the candle burning. In addition to the candle cylinder getting hot, operation is usually accompanied by a loud drone as the candle burns.

Force required to pull this pin out is very low, last time I fitted the rubber jungle back in I blew one even though I was being extra careful! I had a sniff of the one I deployed; no noticeable odours and as I recall a very low flow rate, no blast of gas as some may think.No worries about pulling too hard, pull as hard as you want, all you're doing is withdrawing a small pin which once pulled just dangles below the mask.
itsresidualmate is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2008, 12:42
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: not a million miles from old BKK
Posts: 494
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The words 'plunge' and 'terror' again grace the front pages of the press despite the fact that the reports included an interview with a pax who stated that the descent had taken about 5 minutes to complete. Ah well!!
Many passengers ignore the safety briefing. There's not much the cabin crew can do about that. However, I do think that a pre-recorded cabin announcement that is triggered when the masks drop and reminding passengers of the three things that are going to happen would be a great help.
  1. The aircraft will immediately commence a fairly rapid descent to a safe altitude
  2. There may be some ear pain or discomfort particularly for young children
  3. That passengers need to give the mask hose a tug in order to set the flow of air going.
If that announcement could be pitched at a louder than normal volume and could be repeated throughout the descent then it would go a long way to allay passengers anxiety and remind them of the safety procedures.
Well done those Ryanair boys and girls
Xeque is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2008, 12:43
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Sesame Street
Age: 53
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Oxygen Masks

It never ceases to amaze me that the numbskulls who sit reading their newspapers and chatting to their mates during the safety brief are the ones who are most vocal about things going wrong.

Ok, there was a depressurisation - everything was handled by the book and no-one died or was injured. So, what's the problem?

Don't the ambulance chasing media just love to make a meal of a potential accident. Not content with " Thanks to the training and skill of the fully qualified and experienced flight crew the inflight emergency was handled without further incident " we get " Nobody told us this was going to happen... and it could have so nearly ended in tragedy! - Compensation must be due! - the lawyers tell me I should sue..."

Well done to the Ryanflyers!
Big Burd is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2008, 12:44
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: timbuktu
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
As an SLF, I see a lot of arrogance from the professionals here.

I can fully understand why the pax are panicking:

1. Pre-flight safety briefing does not mention that plane will carry out emergency descent (pax translation: dive or plummet) after oxygen masks drop. Pax may think plane will continue level flight or descend gradually (after all, why the hurry, if the oxygen masks work?)

2. No explanation that it might seem like the air supply is constricted. True, volume of oxygen required is only 20% of normal volume of air breathed. But we are used to breathing that volume, and will be prone to panic when we do not get it.

3. In this computerised age, it should not be beyond the wit of man to devise a system that makes an automatic PA announcement when the masks drop....not only could you explain the descent, you could even remind pax NOT to help others first and that the supply may seem constricting

The comments of some pilots here remind me of doctors 50 years ago: "Who cares about the bedside manner as long as I cure the patient?"....Doc Martin, anyone?

Last edited by marchino61; 26th Aug 2008 at 13:27. Reason: Added NOT in point 3
marchino61 is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2008, 12:49
  #55 (permalink)  

Forewarned is Forearmed
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: uk
Age: 60
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Perhaps if more were to read the Safety Card & listen to the Brief, rather than chatting & reading their Newspapers, they would know how to respond properly, when the masks drop down.

An automated annoucement may well not be heard owing to increase in Cabin noise
Ranger 1 is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2008, 12:51
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: FL410
Posts: 383
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Beausoleil - without wanting to sound trite... a simple user test for the oxygen masks could run as follows: alive and conscious 1 minute after depressurisation? - system either working ok or not required. Unconscious? System not ok. Interestingly the masks are not designed to fit snugly around the face - they are designed such that you breath a mixture of cabin air and pure oxygen (created by a chemical reaction). The oxygen is in fact supplied at about 10psi.
If the oxygen is flowing, you'll be in a fit state to be worried about it. If it isn't flowing you will start to suffer the rapid onset of hypoxia, symptoms of which include apparent personality change, euphoria, impaired judgement (you won't be noticing any of the symptoms in all likelihood), headache, possible hyperventilation etc etc. This, without restoration of the oxygen supply will be followed by gradually reducing consciousness, blue lips and extremities etc. The usual SOP is then to pass out and die. The final stage is reached in just a few minutes from onset of a rapid depressurisation above 20,000'. Longer for a slow depressurisation. All of this depends on the cabin pressure, the time of exposure and the rate of depressurisation.
D O Guerrero is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2008, 12:51
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: london
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Apologies

I think there are some really strong lessons in this.

Not that passengers are "Plonkers" (Speed of Sound), "totally thick" (Teevee), "idiotic, the misinformed, the ignorent (sic), and the plain stupid" (Spicejetter), "pretty ignorent (sic) (Spicejetter), "(smiley)moron!" (mercenary pilot).

Hadow was educated at Harrow (proving only that someone paid for his education) so presumably had an education, and has faced stress in his bonkers exploits, yet he was not prepared for what happened.
It is possible he has never listened to the safety announcement, but that misses the point - do you really think that the safety announcement prepares passengers fully for emergencies on board? The same safety announcement that tells me how to exit the plane in the event of a "landing on water"?

If you wanted the majority to understand it fully you would have to demonstrate, something I don't think would go down well with marketing.....

As passengers we pay peanuts for cheap flights, and in return are treated like cattle. We've got used to it. See above for how you think of us.....

And while we're at it, Hadow had his say, and MOL countered it rather well.
That's how this media thing works.

On another note, you can see the Delta safety briefing on You Tube. It's less than 5 mins long. The oxygen section is 26 second long, and begins with the worlds "It's unlikely, but if cabin pressure changes..." WTF?
This follows on from the section where we are encouraged to locate our nearest exit, so if I'm following insructions I will be looking for the nearest exit and trying to work out where the liferafts are.

Do you really think this prepares passengers???

Last edited by baftabill; 26th Aug 2008 at 13:08.
baftabill is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2008, 12:52
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Finland
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I guess the idea of an automatic PA would be good but only if it could be at a higher volume and clearer than many PAs on many fleets (not RYR here).

OOI what was the Concorde special measures? I don't recall anything when I flew a long time ago, as PAX, but memory and time...

I wonder if, in the days of online booking, somehow the passenger's language could be captured and they receive a copy of the safety instructions in their own language EACH booking. Sure many will ignore it, but...
luoto is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2008, 12:53
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: France
Age: 73
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I am very surprised by the number of pro pilots on this forum who consider the after descent P.A., was not necessary.

In fact the P.A. is essential to restaure the confidence of passsengers seriously shocked by the incident. They were already nervous due to last week accidents, and now they are in an overheated aircraft with a definite smell of burn, they breathe with difficulty from an oxygen mask and nobody to explain what the ****’s going on and that they can discard the mask and that the emergency is dealt with.

Had this PA been made, far less passengers would have had ear pain, because they would have been more relaxed, and maybe the crew would have done a proper job by completing the emergency drill to the end and performed a smooth depressurized approach.

Regarding Automatic P.A. when the masks drop, at least one aircraft (Fokker 100 ) is fitted with this very useful device and this aircraft was designed in the seventies... but BOEING is often lagging behind.

Last edited by Baron rouge; 26th Aug 2008 at 13:12. Reason: add info
Baron rouge is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2008, 12:54
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ireland
Posts: 596
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So he states non of the masks worked ....
So let me get this right. The guy thinks that the O2 masks aren't working and he still wants the flight crew to make an announcement before commencing descent?

Frostbite perhaps?


SoS
Speed of Sound is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.