Ryanair Loss of Pressurisation 25th Aug
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Yes ASFKAP. thats the only useful thing I've picked up too ... pity we haven't been told what exactly happened to kick off the event in the first place.
I did did pick up something about what was in an engineering report - not sure how what to read into it ... with me not being a PP, an engineer, or a journalist, but a mere interested regular FR passenger
I did did pick up something about what was in an engineering report - not sure how what to read into it ... with me not being a PP, an engineer, or a journalist, but a mere interested regular FR passenger
Last edited by slip and turn; 10th Sep 2008 at 21:22.
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I hadn't been plotting exactly who said what when, but now you mention it ASFKAP, on 2nd September I see and recall that you did indeed say:
Does that mean you've seen what's in them, too?
Can a pilot and/or an engineer deduce with some degree of certainty pretty much exactly what happened from that one-liner? Being a mere mortal, I cannot
Oh hang on, it wasn't your first post in the thread but your second that I missed - you said:
and then next post...
I am sorry but I completely missed those last week 
- oops! Busy week!
So it was definitely a software anomaly? And is it one which potentially persisted fleetwide? And one that has now already been nailed by a software patch or something? Or are they using some workaround to carry on flying?
Yep, they have the shop reports for the CPCs......
Can a pilot and/or an engineer deduce with some degree of certainty pretty much exactly what happened from that one-liner? Being a mere mortal, I cannot
Oh hang on, it wasn't your first post in the thread but your second that I missed - you said:
The fault was caused by a software anomoly in the CPC.
What basically happened is this, as you know theres two CPCs on board only one is in control at any one time, if the one in control fails the other one automatically takes over. In this case the CPC in control suddenly thought the max diff had exceeded XX (can't remember the exact figure) and so commanded the O/F valve to fully open
. The CPC in command did not see itself as faulty (and neither did the monitoring one) so command did not transfer, (in fact no inflight faults were logged in either CPC). The anomoly was discovered when the CPCs were downloaded at the repair facility.
What basically happened is this, as you know theres two CPCs on board only one is in control at any one time, if the one in control fails the other one automatically takes over. In this case the CPC in control suddenly thought the max diff had exceeded XX (can't remember the exact figure) and so commanded the O/F valve to fully open
. The CPC in command did not see itself as faulty (and neither did the monitoring one) so command did not transfer, (in fact no inflight faults were logged in either CPC). The anomoly was discovered when the CPCs were downloaded at the repair facility.
Yes but when the O/F valve was signalled to open it had the same effect as if a door seal had blown out, all pressure was lost instantly, any attempt to control the O/F valve manually would have been akin to trying to put the 'genie back in the bottle', the valve would have been controllable (no faults logged or found on any of the pressurisation components) but the masks had already dropped and the panic had already started, the only was was down...
- oops! Busy week!So it was definitely a software anomaly? And is it one which potentially persisted fleetwide? And one that has now already been nailed by a software patch or something? Or are they using some workaround to carry on flying?
Last edited by slip and turn; 10th Sep 2008 at 21:19.
FrequentSLF: it really can't be due to the many possible aircraft configurations even amongst the same company, with the same type--all other items such as smoking or O2 mask are required and self explanatory--and are required---I think it's best for the pax to just observe the briefing required.
From PA: "I think it's best for the pax to just observe the briefing required. " ... even though it's being given by a new FA in unintelligible English on account of his/her native language being Serbo Croat to a load of passengers whose first flight this is an are too s**t scared to know what's going on.
With no real data to go on, I'd guess that on a typical low cost flight 10 - 20% are frequent fliers who've heard it all before and think they remember it all so don't listen; 10 - 20% are so out of their normal environment that they don't understand what's happening. This doesn't matter until things go wrong... but then you've got up to 40% of the pax who really don't know what to do. Is this acceptable?
Jim
With no real data to go on, I'd guess that on a typical low cost flight 10 - 20% are frequent fliers who've heard it all before and think they remember it all so don't listen; 10 - 20% are so out of their normal environment that they don't understand what's happening. This doesn't matter until things go wrong... but then you've got up to 40% of the pax who really don't know what to do. Is this acceptable?
Jim
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When the pax buy their ticket online, have a copy of more detailed emergency briefing printed with each ticket. That way, if they are really worried, they can self-brief at home...
So how many of them would read and study that at home? 5%? For a 0.01% chance of something going very wrong during a flight? Cost/benefit, people are lazy, they start caring only after they get in trouble. Even for a simple short briefing, even more for a long and detailed one.
So how many of them would read and study that at home? 5%? For a 0.01% chance of something going very wrong during a flight? Cost/benefit, people are lazy, they start caring only after they get in trouble. Even for a simple short briefing, even more for a long and detailed one.
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If you have been on any Ryanair flight recently you'll see that they always play a pre recorded safety demo tape. Sometimes the other announcements can be hard to understand though, at least they are only about buying things from the trolley though.
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even though it's being given by a new FA in unintelligible English on account of his/her native language being Serbo Croat to a load of passengers whose first flight this is an are too s**t scared to know what's going on.
RYR has pre-recorded announcements that No1's use for the safety briefing; the only time when a No1 will say the Safety Demo over the PA is when i.e. the tape recorder doesn't work or in case of an emergency. If you don't understand the FA'a accent just say so, get off and use a coach. Simple as, really.
No need to be rude towards the non- English, darling
Rgds,
ATS
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ATS, Any lack of fluency in English by cabin crew in aircraft populated mostly by English speaking passengers is clearly something of a safety issue. The phenomenum of crews possibly "getting by" by learning of standard announcements by rote may simply not be enough in an emergency situation, and some crews are better than others in this regard.
I am particularly intrigued to know what standard is upheld when No 1 is not a native English speaker and the other three aren't either but are in fact non-native English speakers with different first languages to No 1, and when none of the cabin crew first languages match the departure OR destination languages.
As you imply, for some time now, RYR 90% of the time use a recorded safety briefing thesedays. However, I happen to know that at least one of their non-English recordings is recorded by a non-native of the intended audience and is generally seen as a rather mediocre attempt by that audience. It is a recording that I think has been unchanged for three or four years despite its likely mediocrity.
I also say again that the best lessons learned in this thread so far are:
1) what exactly is expected to happen via chords and pins when you are asked to tug on O2 masks
2) what to expect/not expect from the bag on the mask
As a very frequent RYR flyer of long-standing I am here to tell you these are not things I have failed to learn from the briefings, or failed to listen to. The information quite simply has never been communicated to me ...
As to how important that small lack of detail is, well that's what is open to debate.
PS I would recommend SNS3Guppy's post, linked to above by west lakes, as extremely useful thought-provoking reading to everybody down the back, ... and some
I am particularly intrigued to know what standard is upheld when No 1 is not a native English speaker and the other three aren't either but are in fact non-native English speakers with different first languages to No 1, and when none of the cabin crew first languages match the departure OR destination languages.
As you imply, for some time now, RYR 90% of the time use a recorded safety briefing thesedays. However, I happen to know that at least one of their non-English recordings is recorded by a non-native of the intended audience and is generally seen as a rather mediocre attempt by that audience. It is a recording that I think has been unchanged for three or four years despite its likely mediocrity.
I also say again that the best lessons learned in this thread so far are:
1) what exactly is expected to happen via chords and pins when you are asked to tug on O2 masks
2) what to expect/not expect from the bag on the mask
As a very frequent RYR flyer of long-standing I am here to tell you these are not things I have failed to learn from the briefings, or failed to listen to. The information quite simply has never been communicated to me ...
As to how important that small lack of detail is, well that's what is open to debate.
PS I would recommend SNS3Guppy's post, linked to above by west lakes, as extremely useful thought-provoking reading to everybody down the back, ... and some
Last edited by slip and turn; 11th Sep 2008 at 20:00.
