Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Qantas 744 Depressurisation

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Qantas 744 Depressurisation

Old 26th Jul 2008, 00:48
  #221 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Unfortunately, the job of pilots and the job of journalists are exactly opposite:

The journalist's job is to turn a non-event into an event so he can get his byline on the front page or the TV news flash -- The checklist item 'Descend immediately to 10,000' or MEA' becomes "The airplane PLUNGED TENS of THOUSANDS of feet!"

OTOH, the pilot's job is to turn an event into a non-event, and make a normal landing at a good airport -- "What was that?!? Oops! Looks like we're losing pressure! "Loss of Pressurization checklist; squawk 7700, tell Control we're descending to 10; get clearance direct to Manila." Followed in a few minutes by by, "Good afternoon, folks. We have a problem, but it's under control. We'll be landing in Manila in a few minutes. We're a bit busy, but we'll have more information for you after we land. You can take off your oxygen masks now. Flight attendants, please prepare the cabin for landing."
Intruder is online now  
Old 26th Jul 2008, 01:00
  #222 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
1. ITV reporting is definately tabloid compared to BBC's more restrained broadsheet version.

2. The photo at #146 appears to show a black 'paint scraper like object' piercing the green inner hull along a vertical seam about 3 panels below the bottom of the hole. Could this have been pushed through by weight shifting above (early bang), causing a slow puncture until an aerosol of hair spray etc in a soft bag on top against the hull 'exploded' causing the main damage (top of hole)

I note the luggage was not containerised, just netted and appears to plug most of the hole
Is the forward cargo hold pressurised?
The a/c was about 1 hour out of HK cruising at FL290

Just conjecture but we tend to forget aerosols can explode like hand grenades in low pressure environment, not just bonfires!

Finally, respect to all crew & pax aboard. I bet even the Captain went a little pale when he finally saw the damage.
Nov71 is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2008, 01:10
  #223 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tropics
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Did the crew dump the fuel before they landed?
dream747 is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2008, 01:20
  #224 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In my own little world
Posts: 776
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Not sure if anyone picked up on this (only read up to page 6) but anyone else notice in this pic posted earlier :-



The door handle is cracked, and if you look very closely at the pics from the outside, the top and bottom flaps on door 2R are also cracked open too as can be seen in Pics 2,7 and 10 from the link below which would be consistent with the handle inside being in that posision :-

Manila, lo squarcio nell'aereo - Galleria - Repubblica.it

Just wondered if this is of any significance due to the reports of a door "popping" in flight ?.

On a slight thread drift, it is possible to close the 747 doors and from the inside it looks normal, but from the outside the door doesn't quite engage properly and leaves a 1/2" gap between the door and the frame - not suggesting at all that is what happend here as from the outside pics, it doesn't look to be the case. I've had to re-open and close the door numerous times before removing the jet bridge when this has happend - but seeing this makes me wonder what would happen if it wasn't noticed before the a/c departed and if it closes enough to trigger the switch to show it as closed on the f/deck ?.

Back on track, word on the street says that the X-ray images of the bags loaded at LHR have been pulled to see if anything that shouldn't have been in there was loaded - this is just hearsay though from someone who works at LHR in T4, don't even know if such a system exists although I'm sure after Lockerbie it would be a good idea to keep the images of the hold baggage "just incase" - geddit (I'll get my coat).

Leezyjet is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2008, 01:24
  #225 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Asia
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Patrickal said:
Local TV in Boston is now reporting that the plane "plunged 2000 feet". I'll bet that the air at 28,000 feet is a lot easier to breathe than that thin stuff at 30,000. CBS News reporter out of London says "They are not sure if was an explosion, but it certainly was a "catostrophic" event. The lack of quality control, research and proof reading in professionial journalisim is stunning. I am to the point where I believe nothing they say or print.
Patrickal,

It really does beg the question, that if journalism is this inaccurate concerning aviation matters, and that they don't even bother to ask a pilot or mechanic or atc source if it's right; that they probably are just as inaccurate when reporting government, healthcare, or food safety stories to us. WMD's? Sure they had them, I read it in the paper......

Today's big company reporting is just another short-term money-getter. Retractions are rarely seen. I'll get my no-holds-barred-news right here at PPRuNe with you other prunes thank you very much.

If crap is aired that doesn't pass the smell test, plenty of pros like the mechanics and engineers here will straighten us out.

Quite a great site for newsies to hang out at too and get their facts straight. Bursting-Ground-Pressurized-ULD's! Now that's creative!
pacplyer is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2008, 01:28
  #226 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: 59°45'36N 10°27'59E
Posts: 1,032
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I just watched BBC World, they had an eldery gentelman reffered to as "Aviation analyst" in the studio, stating that ....."is was a case of an aircraft panel just giving away, since there was noe jagged edges or other evidence of explotion or other catastrophic even..." (paraphrase-ish)

Now, that´s a bit bold is it not?
M609 is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2008, 01:39
  #227 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: North Hampshire.
Age: 50
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I have been studying the photos of the stuff hanging out damaged area and I am curious to all the references to baggage. I can't see any presence of a container - surely some of it would be visible? This leads me to think it is freight on a pallet and the stuff that looks like wiring is actually the parts of cargo netting. You can see what is maybe netting around the "packages".

Probably irrelevant I know but it did cross my mind that this incident may be DGR related. Unlikely that a pallet would shift anyway let alone in a lateral direction, and if it is skin failure due to corrosion (which I have read the posts about - very informative) would the vacuum from the decomp be strong enough to pull netted down cargo off a pallet towards the hole?

Just my thoughts and obviously speculation.
B777FD is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2008, 02:12
  #228 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Christchurch, NZ
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Australian Transport Safety Bureau Aviation Safety Report - Active

200804689

AO-2008-053: Boeing 747-438, VH-OJK, Near Manila Philippines

Occurrence Details Occurrence Number: 200804689 Location: Near Manila Philippines Occurrence Date: 25 July 2008 State: INTL Occurrence Time: unknown Highest Injury Level: None Occurrence Category: Serious Incident Investigation Type: Occurrence Investigation Occurrence Class: Mechanical Investigation Status: Active Occurrence Type: Airframe Release Date:

Aircraft Details Aircraft Manufacturer:Boeing Co Aircraft Model:747-438 Aircraft Registration:VH-OJK Serial Number:25067 Type of Operation:High Capacity Air Transport Damage to Aircraft:Substantial Departure Point:Hong Kong China Departure Time: Destination:Melbourne Vic.Crew Details:Role Class of Licence Hours on Type Hours Total Pilot-in-Command ATPL


Abstract

It is reported that the aircraft diverted to Manila with damage to the fuselage.
The investigation is continuing.
Dio Gratia is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2008, 02:45
  #229 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Asia
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
For Whom the BONG tolls

Quantas 744 Depressurisation
Forget Fairing failure initiating this amount of damage. Skin is the old waffle doubler construction I believe. Two sections of frames missing and the remains of at least two stringer repairs obvious. Other stringers seem to have failed pretty cleanly each side of the hole ? and the fwd frame has failed at some frame joint ?. And why the fillers under the frame feet ? Usually only do this if you replace a frame or skin. The remaining protruding forward Lap joint is very interesting as the lower skin is not connected to it ! And can you see the edge of a Lap joint scab repair ? Looking for the broken bits of frame or frame chord or safety chord but can’t see any - I believe that’s an intercostal sticking up in the lower part of the hole. This looks awfully like a structural failure, with some collateral damage. Don’t see any clues as to where the failure started but the experts will.
At a guestimate of 80,000 hrs and 12,000 cycles this aircraft would be deep into its ageing aircraft and corrosion control inspection programmes plus a whole raft of SB and AD inspections.

Shrewd observations enchrisg and others,

If I am not mistaken, this whole area is the notorious section 41, section 43 mod vicinity. These mods were carried out in the late 80's-90's because it is very easy to pressurize a cirular airframe shape, but very difficult to pressurize an egg shape as the 747 is. Circular structure is more predictable in stress anyalysis, load bearing risk, not to mention repair. Add to this cocktail the persistent corrosion issues under galleys or lavs; and then factor in management's ability to postpone mandatory million dollar repair programs for years and you have all the ingredients necessary for a drink called a widowmaker at midnight on the figurative airframe clock.

Every time a loud "oil-can" noise went off on climbout, the two guys up front looked at each other like: Is this the big one?

The fix they said? "Just write it up."

"Ground checks O.K! O.K to continue..."


BONG, BONG, BONG....


Ask not who the BONG tolls for. The BONG tolls for you..... The BONG tolls for me.

Last edited by pacplyer; 26th Jul 2008 at 03:35. Reason: late 80's-90's correction
pacplyer is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2008, 02:59
  #230 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: not a million miles from old BKK
Posts: 494
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The name 'Longreach' is painted in gold on the nose of the QANTAS B744. Can anyone confirm that this is the name given to the aircraft or is it something else. I ask because the same name is painted on the nose of the aircraft that overran at BKK - look at the photographs posted earlier.
Coincidence???
Xeque is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2008, 03:04
  #231 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I don't think this is the case, AFAIK Longreach is on many on Qantas's planes. And their website uses the name of Longreach as a type of configuration. Flying with Us - In the Air - Seat Maps - Boeing 747-438 Longreach
rewfly is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2008, 03:08
  #232 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Roguesville, cloud cuckooland
Posts: 1,197
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes on 5 Posts
All QF 744's have the generic "Longreach" written on the side of them. They are also named individually after Australian cities.

VH-OJH was the BKK aircraft. Contrary to what some would have you believe, the cost of repairing that aircraft was less than half of buying a new one. It was the Insurers decision to repair the aircraft, not QF's.
Capt Kremin is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2008, 03:11
  #233 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The Smaller Antipode
Age: 89
Posts: 31
Received 13 Likes on 8 Posts
Longreach - I believe Longreach is the generic name given to all QF 747-400's, just as SIA called their first 747-300's "Big Top ". and their -400's Mega Top. QF delivered their first - 400 non-stop LHR - SYD which is a long reach. Min crew, no baggage - not even theirs I believe ! - and re-flightplanning in flight to reduce the contingency required stage by stage. Good effort. ( Sorry if the memory has made a few errors - happy to be corrected )
ExSp33db1rd is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2008, 03:12
  #234 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia
Age: 64
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Longreach

Longreach appears on the side of the 747-400 throughoutt the QF fleet
Longreach is a Queensland country town that has historical significance to the origins of Qantas - it is also the home of the Qantas musuem where a 747-238 (VH-EBQ??) and VH-XBA a 707-238 are parked
xfsd is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2008, 03:12
  #235 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 157
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Longreach is the name given to the aircraft type, there is another name usually a city in Australia given to individual aircraft. James Strong tried to change that tradition by naming aircraft after human traits.
eg Inspiration, Admiration, and of course Stupidity.
vortsa is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2008, 03:12
  #236 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: North Hampshire.
Age: 50
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Longreach

is where the head office used to be.

From the QANTAS website history section:

"In the words of McMaster, Winton was `the official birthplace of Qantas'. The first and only meeting of directors in the town was held on 10 February 1921. Qantas operations were then moved 160km south-east to Longreach, which was more central to the operational area.

Qantas' first office in Longreach was destroyed by fire. A temporary office was provided free in stock and station agent Frank Cory's plank-fronted store. Qantas later occupied the nearby Graziers Building until moving its headquarters to Brisbane in 1929. "
B777FD is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2008, 03:13
  #237 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: not a million miles from old BKK
Posts: 494
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thanks Capt K
I knew all the aircraft had names like (I think) City of Hobart, City of Sydney etc. Longreach is a town in Australia I believe - hence my question.

Last edited by Xeque; 26th Jul 2008 at 03:14. Reason: spelling !!!
Xeque is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2008, 03:20
  #238 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Antipodes Islands
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Golf Putter?

Looking at the high detail photo of the breach, is that the head of a golf putter I can see in the lower right of the hole?

It's gold coloured and has a large 'S' engraved on it.

That would indicate the pallet was carrying oversized luggage rather than standard bags?
Mahatma Kote is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2008, 03:22
  #239 (permalink)  
Registered User **
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 52
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Remember this?

February 20, 2008: Three of four electrical systems on a Qantas Boeing 747 approaching Bangkok from London were lost due to water leakage in the forward galley. Cabin crew used blankets to mop up the leak, and the jumbo was forced to land on battery back-up. Now do please tell me this is a different aircraft. This is an area known for corrosion issues...thats where I'd be looking first. Best, Sicknote
mark sicknote is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2008, 03:30
  #240 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: here
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Looking at the high detail photo of the breach, is that the head of a golf putter I can see in the lower right of the hole?

It's gold coloured and has a large 'S' engraved on it.
looks like part of a bag, "ST" and some other characters
peter mcgrath is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.