One-Two-Go Grounded!
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Suspension of the OX AOC was lifted in September. And the HKK authorities would be well aware of suspended and revoked certificates.
The bottom line is that as long as the flights operate as OX under the OX AOC, they're 'approved', know matter what the paint job.
The part that hasn't been explained yet is, that part of the translated announcement lifting the OX AOC suspension included a bit about the MD's being specifically excluded from OX's operating authority...74's only.
Surely if that were true, the HKK CAA could be diligent enough to question the details (and not just the copy of the certificate) of the operating specs of a recently suspended operator. I'm sure there's probably a slight delay in getting the clarifying details from Bangkok, but no problem in the meantime.
The bottom line is that as long as the flights operate as OX under the OX AOC, they're 'approved', know matter what the paint job.
The part that hasn't been explained yet is, that part of the translated announcement lifting the OX AOC suspension included a bit about the MD's being specifically excluded from OX's operating authority...74's only.
Surely if that were true, the HKK CAA could be diligent enough to question the details (and not just the copy of the certificate) of the operating specs of a recently suspended operator. I'm sure there's probably a slight delay in getting the clarifying details from Bangkok, but no problem in the meantime.
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As someone who is more than a little familiar with the Hong Kong Civil Aviation Department and their capabilities, I would caution against suggesting they could be "diligent enough to question the details" of any operator having had its AOC suspended. In fact, on many levels, the HK CAD and the Thai DCA are not so different, it's just that the HK CAD are better at hiding their ineptness.
Apologies for any thread drift.
Apologies for any thread drift.
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One 2 Go to Resume flts 03rd Dec 08
Just spoke to someone in OX/OG ops. They have been advised that OG will resume domestic services on or about 03rd Dec 2008; that's in just under 3 weeks.
Seems the Thai DCA may have been "satisfied" with the corrective actions that OG were told to rectify.
OG or OX, same mob, but thats Thailand. Looking the other way.
Seems the Thai DCA may have been "satisfied" with the corrective actions that OG were told to rectify.
OG or OX, same mob, but thats Thailand. Looking the other way.
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Seems the Thai DCA may have been "satisfied" with the corrective actions...
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Demonstration at HKT Dec 3?
I will demonstrate at Phuket Airport the day 1-2 Go resumes landing. Anyone with me? Do not be afraid.
Investigate, Indict, Convict and then Punish To The Full Extent Of The Law, Udom Tantisomprongchai (sic?) for 90 deaths of flight OG 269 on Sept 16, 2007. And demote Thai Land's inexplicable OK safety rating
Need talking points for paper to be handed at out at Demo..Can help, please IU?
PS: Good to be back. I was " Persona non Grata " for a nasty PM I sent . Sorry to have lowered the standard of discourse but the recipient..nevermind
Investigate, Indict, Convict and then Punish To The Full Extent Of The Law, Udom Tantisomprongchai (sic?) for 90 deaths of flight OG 269 on Sept 16, 2007. And demote Thai Land's inexplicable OK safety rating
Need talking points for paper to be handed at out at Demo..Can help, please IU?
PS: Good to be back. I was " Persona non Grata " for a nasty PM I sent . Sorry to have lowered the standard of discourse but the recipient..nevermind
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Suggested talking points
Talking points:
- Orient Thai and One-Two-Go are unsafe.
- Orient Thai and One-Two-Go do not follow international safety-standards.
- Fly a safer airline. Don’t fly Orient Thai or One-Two-Go.
- Orient Thai and One-Two-Go have inadequately trained pilots
- Orient Thai and One-Two-Go have no culture of safety
- Airline travel is supposed to be safe. See www.InvestigateUdom.com to learn more about the unsafe practices and systemic failures at Orient Thai and One-Two-Go.
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Does Anyone Important Fly on Orient Thai?
I wrote a little blog posting on The Nation regarding the failure to bring real change or safety to Orient Thai or One-Two-Go. If you share these concerns, please share the link.
The rumor I hear is that current group of MD-80 captains won't be pushed around. Apparently, it's the OX 747 pilots who are particularly scary right now....
The rumor I hear is that current group of MD-80 captains won't be pushed around. Apparently, it's the OX 747 pilots who are particularly scary right now....
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From my perspective as a regular passenger, the efforts here to expose all of this are highly commendable.
But a couple of points:
(1) Why do those in the know (pilots, engineers) wait for an accident before bringing out all of these issues. I'm not pointing the finger here, I have the highest respect for your profession, but shouldn't there be a mechanism to alert the flying public of issues before an accident happens.... or is it that we the flying public don't give a toss until lives are lost?
(2) How about Air Asia Thailand, is that an accident waiting to happen as they operate under the same rules/regulations and administering authority in Thailand? On top of that they must have incredibly slim profit margins, and I am amazed at their fast turn around times.
Again, my appreciation at the efforts being made here.... somebody has to do something!!!
But a couple of points:
(1) Why do those in the know (pilots, engineers) wait for an accident before bringing out all of these issues. I'm not pointing the finger here, I have the highest respect for your profession, but shouldn't there be a mechanism to alert the flying public of issues before an accident happens.... or is it that we the flying public don't give a toss until lives are lost?
(2) How about Air Asia Thailand, is that an accident waiting to happen as they operate under the same rules/regulations and administering authority in Thailand? On top of that they must have incredibly slim profit margins, and I am amazed at their fast turn around times.
Again, my appreciation at the efforts being made here.... somebody has to do something!!!
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exposing the truth before an incident?
Pak Mike:
A number of pilots did try to expose the truth before the accident. We have the letters they wrote and the evidence they used to corroborate the claims. Their letters were addressed to Udom, to the DCA and to ICAO. Nothing was done.
I spoke with the ICAO representative stationed in Bangkok, the rep said he simply forwards any letters he receives to Witichai at the DCA. He was so casual and uninterested, I asked if he actually read the letters! (He did not say yes.)
Here are the quick notes I took after the call (the evidence I refer to in this conversation is the proof of fraudulent checkrides from Dec 2007):
A number of pilots did try to expose the truth before the accident. We have the letters they wrote and the evidence they used to corroborate the claims. Their letters were addressed to Udom, to the DCA and to ICAO. Nothing was done.
I spoke with the ICAO representative stationed in Bangkok, the rep said he simply forwards any letters he receives to Witichai at the DCA. He was so casual and uninterested, I asked if he actually read the letters! (He did not say yes.)
Here are the quick notes I took after the call (the evidence I refer to in this conversation is the proof of fraudulent checkrides from Dec 2007):
I'd been specifically told to speak with Mr. Graff. What a waste of time. After listening to him tell me safety wasn't what they do, nor do they assess the airlines or the facilities or the oversight, I finally said, "Forgive me for being rude but, what is it you do *do*?"
Apparently he provides support to Vittuchai, if Vittuchai asks for it. If I send him any of the information I have, he sends it on to Vittuchai. He's happy to do that, and offered several times. I told him that was unnecessary, as Vittuchai had already collected $$ from Orient Thai on the information. (He actually laughed.)
I asked what it is ICAO does to inform the travelling public. He said we were free to go to the ICAO website, hunt thru several menu to the flight safety network exchange info, search on Thailand, read the various reports, and then make an informed decision. He managed to say all of that without laughter.
It really is amazing civilization hasn't self-destructed yet.
Apparently he provides support to Vittuchai, if Vittuchai asks for it. If I send him any of the information I have, he sends it on to Vittuchai. He's happy to do that, and offered several times. I told him that was unnecessary, as Vittuchai had already collected $$ from Orient Thai on the information. (He actually laughed.)
I asked what it is ICAO does to inform the travelling public. He said we were free to go to the ICAO website, hunt thru several menu to the flight safety network exchange info, search on Thailand, read the various reports, and then make an informed decision. He managed to say all of that without laughter.
It really is amazing civilization hasn't self-destructed yet.
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OThai job ad
Found this on a Thai job site.... scary stuff. No mention of safety in the statement. License Dispatcher - Thailand - JobsDB.com
QUOTE:
Company Description
IF YOU'RE A HIGH-FLYER
.......Then we can offer you your dream job......
Orient Thai Airlines Co., Ltd
With our experience and expertise in airline business of more than 16 years, we always realize that our business operation is based on the idea “Be truthful to be a pride of Thai”. This is our primary goal and mission, which contains of the fair prices, indulgent services, opened mind and friendly as the true Thai way, always sincerely take care and responsive to customer’s needs. Moreover, we commit to improve our services on the basis of the fundamental of accuracy, appropriateness and fairness for benefits of our customers.
We are seeking for dynamic, competent, and new challenge candidates for the following positions
QUOTE:
Company Description
IF YOU'RE A HIGH-FLYER
.......Then we can offer you your dream job......
Orient Thai Airlines Co., Ltd
With our experience and expertise in airline business of more than 16 years, we always realize that our business operation is based on the idea “Be truthful to be a pride of Thai”. This is our primary goal and mission, which contains of the fair prices, indulgent services, opened mind and friendly as the true Thai way, always sincerely take care and responsive to customer’s needs. Moreover, we commit to improve our services on the basis of the fundamental of accuracy, appropriateness and fairness for benefits of our customers.
We are seeking for dynamic, competent, and new challenge candidates for the following positions
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Bangkok Post article ;1-2 Die to Fly Again
http://www.bangkokpost.com/261108_
Business/26Nov2008_biz32.php
( gee, what colour shirt should I wear to distinguish myself from PAD or DAD or whatever protest group takes over the airport that day? )
BOONSONG KOSITCHOTETHANA
One-Two-Go Airlines is preparing to resume flights on Dec 5, after being grounded since July 22 for safety and operational deficiencies. Executives of the privately owned budget carrier, which suffered one of Thailand's worst air crashes, yesterday confirmed the re-launch and have begun accepting reservations.
The airline recently passed a series of rigorous audits by the Department of Civil Aviation (DCA) of various aspects including safety, quality assurance systems and organisational structure.
The DCA suspended One-Two-Go after discovering substandard safety and management practices, and falsification of documents by some pilots who had misstated their proficiency.
The suspension coincided with a wave of litigation in US courts against the airline by relatives of victims of the Sept 16, 2007 Phuket crash. An MD-82 jetliner operated by the carrier crashed in strong winds and heavy rain after attempting to land at Phuket International Airport, leaving 89 dead and 41 injured.
One-Two-Go is re-starting its flights cautiously on a limited scale in order to gauge market reaction, given the image problems it has been facing.
It will initially offer seven daily flights between Bangkok and five major domestic cities _ Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Phuket, Hat Yai and Nakhon Si Thammarat. The flights will be operated by MD-80 series jetliners with 172 seats.The carrier has seven of these rear twin-jet aircraft in its fleet which can operate a lot more flights than what it currently has planned.
''We want to see how passengers react to our relaunch and to proceed from there,'' a senior One-Two-Go executive said.
The airline continues to maintain its ticket-sale terms, procedures and offerings as before its grounding about five months ago.
Its tickets are marketed at fixed prices inclusive of fuel surcharges and other extras, with prices dropping on a sliding scale depending on how advanced the bookings are.
For instance, a one-way ticket from Bangkok to Chiang Mai costs 1,950 baht if booked three days prior to departure, 1,650 baht if booked 14 days in advance, 1,350 baht for 30 days and 1,200 baht for 60 days.
Business/26Nov2008_biz32.php
( gee, what colour shirt should I wear to distinguish myself from PAD or DAD or whatever protest group takes over the airport that day? )
BOONSONG KOSITCHOTETHANA
One-Two-Go Airlines is preparing to resume flights on Dec 5, after being grounded since July 22 for safety and operational deficiencies. Executives of the privately owned budget carrier, which suffered one of Thailand's worst air crashes, yesterday confirmed the re-launch and have begun accepting reservations.
The airline recently passed a series of rigorous audits by the Department of Civil Aviation (DCA) of various aspects including safety, quality assurance systems and organisational structure.
The DCA suspended One-Two-Go after discovering substandard safety and management practices, and falsification of documents by some pilots who had misstated their proficiency.
The suspension coincided with a wave of litigation in US courts against the airline by relatives of victims of the Sept 16, 2007 Phuket crash. An MD-82 jetliner operated by the carrier crashed in strong winds and heavy rain after attempting to land at Phuket International Airport, leaving 89 dead and 41 injured.
One-Two-Go is re-starting its flights cautiously on a limited scale in order to gauge market reaction, given the image problems it has been facing.
It will initially offer seven daily flights between Bangkok and five major domestic cities _ Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Phuket, Hat Yai and Nakhon Si Thammarat. The flights will be operated by MD-80 series jetliners with 172 seats.The carrier has seven of these rear twin-jet aircraft in its fleet which can operate a lot more flights than what it currently has planned.
''We want to see how passengers react to our relaunch and to proceed from there,'' a senior One-Two-Go executive said.
The airline continues to maintain its ticket-sale terms, procedures and offerings as before its grounding about five months ago.
Its tickets are marketed at fixed prices inclusive of fuel surcharges and other extras, with prices dropping on a sliding scale depending on how advanced the bookings are.
For instance, a one-way ticket from Bangkok to Chiang Mai costs 1,950 baht if booked three days prior to departure, 1,650 baht if booked 14 days in advance, 1,350 baht for 30 days and 1,200 baht for 60 days.
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exposing the truth before an incident?
InvestigateUdom:
Pilots being the professionals they are, would have expected letters to Udom, the DCA and ICAO.
However the point I was making is getting this out to the traveling public BEFORE there is an accident, so at least we can make an informed decision on who to fly with.
Then I raise the question, are there any other operators in Thailand in the same boat, and accident waiting to happen, and raise the question regarding Thai Air Asia. How are they different from One-Two-Go?
Pilots being the professionals they are, would have expected letters to Udom, the DCA and ICAO.
However the point I was making is getting this out to the traveling public BEFORE there is an accident, so at least we can make an informed decision on who to fly with.
Then I raise the question, are there any other operators in Thailand in the same boat, and accident waiting to happen, and raise the question regarding Thai Air Asia. How are they different from One-Two-Go?
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Regarding getting the word out before a crash: After the crash, there were a number of "aviation journalists" faulting the victims, saying passengers need to vet an airline for its safety. However, there was no information available (aside from a bit on pprune.). Even now, a traveler can only find the information on pprune, investigateudom.com. Thai media can not report on the situation. Getting the word out is difficult.
Regarding other Thai airlines: At this moment, there are 4 Orient Thai pilots were are unqualified for the 727-200 theys fly. DCA agents have been told. Orient Thai continues to endanger the public. We have similar proof of issues at Phuket Air and Skystar airways. The DCA provides no oversight. They take $$ in exchange for looking the other way. Therefore, any airline is only as safe as they choose to be. Or in the case of Orient Thai, Skystar and Phuket, only as safe as the captain of the aircraft at any moment in time.<-- CORRECTION: This should read 747-200!
Perhaps others on this thread will comment on Thai Asia Air, or you could ask on another thread. I would be intersted in the responses.
Regarding other Thai airlines: At this moment, there are 4 Orient Thai pilots were are unqualified for the 727-200 theys fly. DCA agents have been told. Orient Thai continues to endanger the public. We have similar proof of issues at Phuket Air and Skystar airways. The DCA provides no oversight. They take $$ in exchange for looking the other way. Therefore, any airline is only as safe as they choose to be. Or in the case of Orient Thai, Skystar and Phuket, only as safe as the captain of the aircraft at any moment in time.<-- CORRECTION: This should read 747-200!
Perhaps others on this thread will comment on Thai Asia Air, or you could ask on another thread. I would be intersted in the responses.
Last edited by InvestigateUdom; 26th Nov 2008 at 17:35.
Retired Tiger pilot
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Gee investidateudom,
quote:
"At this moment, there are 4 Orient Thai pilots were are unqualified for the 727-200 theys fly. DCA agents have been told. Orient Thai continues to endanger the public. We have similar proof of issues at Phuket Air and Skystar airways."
You make it rather difficult for anyone to arrive at a qualified or rational decision based upon your quote without sufficient facts provided; I thought that Phuket Air and Skystar were quite reasonable and I hope to fly to Inchon next Sunday with SS. Give me more info and I'll go with another carrier.
you make it
quote:
"At this moment, there are 4 Orient Thai pilots were are unqualified for the 727-200 theys fly. DCA agents have been told. Orient Thai continues to endanger the public. We have similar proof of issues at Phuket Air and Skystar airways."
You make it rather difficult for anyone to arrive at a qualified or rational decision based upon your quote without sufficient facts provided; I thought that Phuket Air and Skystar were quite reasonable and I hope to fly to Inchon next Sunday with SS. Give me more info and I'll go with another carrier.
you make it
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Both One2Go and Orient Thai are featured on Wikipedia, along with some of your concerns. A lot of people look there for information. Why don;t you spend some time inputting to the Wiki Articles?