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Jet nose cone caves in mid-flight

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Jet nose cone caves in mid-flight

Old 11th Jul 2008, 15:42
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The really interesting thing was the rest of the trip our True airspeed increased by 5 knots.
I would think that would relate to instrument error rather than a reduction in drag.

pb
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Old 12th Jul 2008, 19:44
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From Aviation news net.

FAA Says Structural Defect Is Behind Dented 757 Radome
Wed, 09 Jul '08
Suspect Part Being Examined By NWA Technicians

A bird strike has been ruled out by the FAA as the cause of a mysterious dent in the nosecone of a Northwest Airlines Boeing 757.
As ANN reported, the crew reported hearing a bang descending through 18,000 feet Sunday near Tampa, and the plane's nose-mounted radar failed at the same moment... but no blood or feathers were found, and not many birds are found at flight level 180 anyway.
The plane landed without incident, and no one was injured.
Now, the FAA says the dent was a simple collapse caused by a structural defect in the radome itself. Spokeswoman Elizabeth Cory told the Twin Cities Pioneer Press an investigation is underway to determine why the structure failed
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Old 12th Jul 2008, 23:21
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It's amazing that this lady got this ship down Business Jet Blog: Miracle Mid-Air Between NetJets Hawker and Glider
Much respect to the injured skipper-----it's also amazing the glider pilot lived


Interesting fact for USA pilots ---sometimes ATC can release blocks of class alpha airspace [positively controlled IFR airspace abv 18000' msl for non-US pilots]---for high altitude /high speed glider events]
Mid-Air Collision of Glider and Jet near Reno: ASG-29 vs. Hawker XP800 (by Jeremy Zawodny)

Last edited by Pugilistic Animus; 13th Jul 2008 at 02:22. Reason: still no NTSB --and had to fix the bad link---and add a better one
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Old 13th Jul 2008, 08:40
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OK "proffesional structural engineer" what in your expert opinion is this and probably all other a/c nose cones made from???
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Old 13th Jul 2008, 10:27
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The really interesting thing was the rest of the trip our True airspeed increased by 5 knots.
Maybe airflow around the pitot changed/got turbulent giving a wrong (lower) indicated airspeed reading.. .

M
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Old 13th Jul 2008, 14:37
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Flash, Bang, Wallop.

A Court Line BAC 1-11 returning from PMI in '72 or'73
was directed into a rather nasty ball of cloud/hailstone.
I've mentioned this before on another thread page.
It totalled the radome, leaving what was left of it
draped over the Pilot and Co-Pilot's windscreens.
All leading edges were really hammered. Looked as
though they had been attacked by a demented
pewter maker.
The Captain, A Capt Hazeldene I believe, brought it
back to LTN in what remained of one peice, but had
to put on the Smoke Mask and look through the OPEN
D.V. window whilst landing. A Brilliant bit of airmanship
under the circumstances.
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Old 13th Jul 2008, 14:52
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Not instrument error

No,captain PB, I dont think so we had several hours of very careful cross check, Including another Brit on the same route for the winds.
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Old 13th Jul 2008, 14:53
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From that Data4Science site:
"What’s most interesting about this is that the highest air pressure on an aircraft is on the underside of the wings and fuselage which is the source of lift aerodynamically. Yet we can clearly see it is the upper area of the nose cone that was crushed."
Don't you love it when so-called 'experts' start out with the wrong data to try and "prove" their pseudo-science?
And when alleged 'professional structural engineers' demonstrate their total ignorance of radome structures and impact dynamics?

CJ
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Old 13th Jul 2008, 19:18
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OK "proffesional structural engineer" what in your expert opinion is this and probably all other a/c nose cones made from???
Epoxy resin impregnated glass fabric.

At the forward end of the radome (nose) there is an fluted core (air gap) between the outer and inner surfaces. This gap closes torwards aft end aft end of the radome.
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Old 13th Jul 2008, 21:35
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Originally Posted by wilyflier
Not instrument error
No, captain PB, I dont think so, we had several hours of very careful cross check, Including another Brit on the same route for the winds.
Can you tell us some more?
After the radome collapse, both IAS and TAT (if there was a TAT sensor on the Brit) calibration would have gone out of the window, and IAS certainly by at least 5 kts, unless the Brit still had a pitot on the wingtip?

You're talking '60s. 'Professionally' I date from just after that, hence my question... How did you establish a TAS without a reliable CAS within a 5 kts error?

No scoffing or mocking, seriously interested, as another ancient.

CJ
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Old 14th Jul 2008, 07:16
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If I remember correctly, the Brit - the first commercial aircraft on which I worked- had its pitot probes (were they pitot/static probes?) on a stand-off on the forward fuselage.
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Old 14th Jul 2008, 19:24
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Brit radome saga.

I've just dug the Britannia Vol 1 out of my loft.
Quote.
Britannia series 310. sect3,chap1,item3.
The radome fwd of frame F619, houses the radar scanner
unit, and comprises an inner and outer laminated
fibre-glass skin bonded to a honeycomb, (Dufaylite),
filler.
Radomes from Mod 2263, have a box section fluted core.
Mod 1708 embodies a replaceable nose cap bonded to the
radome as a protection against rain ingress.

There are two pitot probes, one each side of the fuselage,
and a total of four static vents also located on the fwd
fuselage.

Hope this helps, but I doubt it.

PS. There were no wing tip probes, at least I couldn't find
any in the Vol 1.
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Old 14th Jul 2008, 19:57
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Originally Posted by Storminnorm
There are two pitot probes, one each side of the fuselage, and a total of four static vents also located on the fwd
fuselage.
Hope this helps, but I doubt it.
On the contrary, it very much substantiates what I remembered, but I had no doc to verify it.
Once the radome went, the airflow on the forward fuselage would have been disturbed so much, that even a mere 5 kts error seems, well ... lucky...

Which takes me back to wilyflier's post: how did you derive TAS?

PS. There were no wing tip probes, at least I couldn't find any in the Vol 1.
I didn't really think there were any either. I think they went out with the Meteor....

CJ
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Old 15th Jul 2008, 13:17
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Oh dear Christiaan, NOT the Meatbox, How OLD
are you? That was when Pontious was at FTS!!!!!

Last flew in one of those in 1965, I think, with some
Sgt Pilot(!) who had been rejected by the Kamekaze
training programme for being TOO suicidal!!!!
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Old 15th Jul 2008, 14:27
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Originally Posted by Storminnorm
Oh dear Christiaan, NOT the Meatbox, How OLD are you? That was when Pontious was at FTS!!!!!
Ah well.... I must have been between 10 and 12, when the RNethAF got their first Meteors. Those were the days where you not only could get on the base, but they even let you sit in the cockpits.....

Thinking about it, a nose or forward fuselage pitot static would not really have worked very well with four nose-mounted cannon in close proximity . So there must have been others with the same arrangement.

CJ
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