British Airways Emergency Descent
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Sky divers?
Several posts on this thread have suggested that descents in excess of 500-2000 fpm may create severe discomfort. I am wondering how this squares with the experience of sky divers.
It is my understanding that a sky diver may reach vertical speeds of 120-200 mph -- which equate to descents of between 10,560 and 17,600 fpm. While I know high altitude freefall sky diving is hazardous, it is not as uncommon as one would presume if it was a guaranteed ticket to severe physical discomfort and hearing loss.
Because this post deals more with general medical aspects of flight than the particular BA descent that precipitated this thread, I will not be insulted if this query is moved to a different forum.
It is my understanding that a sky diver may reach vertical speeds of 120-200 mph -- which equate to descents of between 10,560 and 17,600 fpm. While I know high altitude freefall sky diving is hazardous, it is not as uncommon as one would presume if it was a guaranteed ticket to severe physical discomfort and hearing loss.
Because this post deals more with general medical aspects of flight than the particular BA descent that precipitated this thread, I will not be insulted if this query is moved to a different forum.
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Skydiver scenario is surely an interesting foil to arguments against high descent rates.
I dare say I would not be insulted either, SeenItAll, (if the thread were moved), but nevertheless I would still like to know more about how both thermostats had failed on this BA flight. I assume that is somewhat rare, and I assume that is possibly why the thread is still where it is?
I dare say I would not be insulted either, SeenItAll, (if the thread were moved), but nevertheless I would still like to know more about how both thermostats had failed on this BA flight. I assume that is somewhat rare, and I assume that is possibly why the thread is still where it is?
For once in my life I am in total agreement with Rainboe.
This guy is a menace and should not be allowed anywhere near a professional pilots forum.
I suppose I will now be banned; after all, what the hell do I know about the price of butter having only been flying for 50 years!
This guy is a menace and should not be allowed anywhere near a professional pilots forum.
I suppose I will now be banned; after all, what the hell do I know about the price of butter having only been flying for 50 years!
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No No JW411, you stay, I'll just drop out ... 50 years in an industry is such a superior number. Hell, I've only been alive for 51 
Ban me instead and keep all the delicate egos happy - with experience like theirs, they must be so important to aviation heritage, and of course to the necessary feel good factor that is surely necessary to keep things from tits up in these testing times. I am afterall just but a fart in the breeze...and am honoured to breathe the same air as these ... erm ... pilots. Take me, please
Jeez, some of you old farts are so up yourselves that the only way they could possibly get any balanced CRM out of you is if you have two ripe Kiwi fruit for breakfast every day for a week.
While the jury is out on what audience this forum wishes to attract (those that know it all or those that don't), perhaps someone will explain to the green-gringos how the two thermostats failed?
Ban me instead and keep all the delicate egos happy - with experience like theirs, they must be so important to aviation heritage, and of course to the necessary feel good factor that is surely necessary to keep things from tits up in these testing times. I am afterall just but a fart in the breeze...and am honoured to breathe the same air as these ... erm ... pilots. Take me, please
Jeez, some of you old farts are so up yourselves that the only way they could possibly get any balanced CRM out of you is if you have two ripe Kiwi fruit for breakfast every day for a week.
While the jury is out on what audience this forum wishes to attract (those that know it all or those that don't), perhaps someone will explain to the green-gringos how the two thermostats failed?
Slip and slide
The last time in this thread that you tried that method of communication I got my posts deleted as well even though I had taken the time to add some answers to your question.
Before we both get our posts deleted again could you answer a question for me (and maybe the peanut galley watching this threrd)
Did you at least learn anything of value from the posts before they got deleted
No No JW411, you stay, I'll just drop out ...
Ban me instead ...
While the jury is out on what audience this forum wishes to attract (those that know it all or those that don't), perhaps someone will explain to the green-gringos how the two thermostats failed?
Ban me instead ...
While the jury is out on what audience this forum wishes to attract (those that know it all or those that don't), perhaps someone will explain to the green-gringos how the two thermostats failed?
Before we both get our posts deleted again could you answer a question for me (and maybe the peanut galley watching this threrd)
Did you at least learn anything of value from the posts before they got deleted
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Having some interest in this as I was in ARN where the A319 was heading and reading all the tales of decompression. Some facts.
The cabin climbed to 9500ft. The APU was started and packs reinstated.
The aircraft returned to LHR at FL150.
The cabin climbed to 9500ft. The APU was started and packs reinstated.
The aircraft returned to LHR at FL150.
Warning Toxic!
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Who cares how the thermostats failed- they just did OK? Faulty batch, overtightened, electrical failure, hit with a hammer- how will we know here?
Answer one question and get two back! The BA incident is over, happily settled. No medical problems. Now these 3 are Flight Deck forums, not question forums for idle interested nosey bystanders. Pressurisation theory for beginners, especially ones that think they know better how to handle it, belongs elsewhere!
Answer one question and get two back! The BA incident is over, happily settled. No medical problems. Now these 3 are Flight Deck forums, not question forums for idle interested nosey bystanders. Pressurisation theory for beginners, especially ones that think they know better how to handle it, belongs elsewhere!
Somebody earlier mentioned free-fall parachuting.
I can remember being a young co-pilot in the RAF in the 1960s when we were doing HALO trials on Salisbury Plain. For those of you who are not familiar with HALO, it consisted of parachutists throwing themselves out of the back of the aircraft at high altitude and then free-falling to low altitude to then open their parachutes and hopefully, arrive unannounced.
In the beginning, the jumping beans did not have any built-in oxygen system. We carried an oxygen system that came straight out of the safety equipment section in the freight bay and that was a console made out of plywood that stood about 6 ft tall and about 10 ft long and was fed by 750 lire bottles of oxygen. The jumpers connected themselves to the oxygen console using 'H' Type masks and a cloth hat and breathed oxygen whilst we de-pressurised and opened the doors on the run in to the drop point,
They breathed oxygen until the last moment and then threw themselves over the sill.
I personally threw lots of these very special people all over the world on behalf of the British taxpayer.
Nowadays they have their own built-in oxygen system and with square parachutes to boot so things have definitely improved.
However, getting back to the thread, those original HALO guys were coming down from altitude at great speed to low level with no medical problems whatsoever.
I can remember being a young co-pilot in the RAF in the 1960s when we were doing HALO trials on Salisbury Plain. For those of you who are not familiar with HALO, it consisted of parachutists throwing themselves out of the back of the aircraft at high altitude and then free-falling to low altitude to then open their parachutes and hopefully, arrive unannounced.
In the beginning, the jumping beans did not have any built-in oxygen system. We carried an oxygen system that came straight out of the safety equipment section in the freight bay and that was a console made out of plywood that stood about 6 ft tall and about 10 ft long and was fed by 750 lire bottles of oxygen. The jumpers connected themselves to the oxygen console using 'H' Type masks and a cloth hat and breathed oxygen whilst we de-pressurised and opened the doors on the run in to the drop point,
They breathed oxygen until the last moment and then threw themselves over the sill.
I personally threw lots of these very special people all over the world on behalf of the British taxpayer.
Nowadays they have their own built-in oxygen system and with square parachutes to boot so things have definitely improved.
However, getting back to the thread, those original HALO guys were coming down from altitude at great speed to low level with no medical problems whatsoever.
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
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That's because their mouths are wide open in horror on the way down screaming 'JEEEZUZZZZZZ!' It helps clear the ears.
I believe Stuka pilots used to do mouth wide open screaming on the way down to help clear the ears. But it is interesting, in all I've read about parachutists, I've never heard of ear pain troubling them. Maybe too much else going on?
I believe Stuka pilots used to do mouth wide open screaming on the way down to help clear the ears. But it is interesting, in all I've read about parachutists, I've never heard of ear pain troubling them. Maybe too much else going on?
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Arn't these skydivers jumping out of unpressurised aircraft (or cabin) and therefore would they have had time to acclimatise on the way up and hence have less of a problem coming down?
Mr and Mrs Smith sitting warm and cosy in Row 13 don't have this benefit when the cabin alt rises without warning hence it becomes uncomfortable.
IMHO I would have thought that crew are used to the cabin px day in day out and therefore are more conditioned and less prone to ear discomfort during an emergency descent?
Mr and Mrs Smith sitting warm and cosy in Row 13 don't have this benefit when the cabin alt rises without warning hence it becomes uncomfortable.
IMHO I would have thought that crew are used to the cabin px day in day out and therefore are more conditioned and less prone to ear discomfort during an emergency descent?
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Moving slightly sideways, but still on 'emergency descents', as we seem to have thrashed the ear bursting to death:
In TCAS bulletin N0.9 issued by Eurocontrol they advise setting TCAS to 'TA only' in an emergency descent. This will avoid you receiving a RA to reduce V/S or even climb, which you would be tempted to ignore. Ouch! In our QRH this is not a procedure. What do others do in their SOP's?
In TCAS bulletin N0.9 issued by Eurocontrol they advise setting TCAS to 'TA only' in an emergency descent. This will avoid you receiving a RA to reduce V/S or even climb, which you would be tempted to ignore. Ouch! In our QRH this is not a procedure. What do others do in their SOP's?
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Skydiving
Skydiving usually causes no problem (i've never even noticed my ears pop, and that's descending from 13,000 odd feet to 3000 feet in thirty seconds or so).
The one time I had a problem was jumping with a bit of congestion - felt a "click" somewhere inside my cheek and blood started flowing up my goggles from my nostril. Pressure change had burst a blood vessel. The blood dried so quickly I couldn't see a thing until i'd deployed my canopy and could take the googles off.
Acclimatisation doesn't help here - if your eustachian tubes (the things that equalise the pressure either side of your eardrums) are narrow or bunged up with snot then you risk pain or a perforated eardrum. If someone does have this problem then a slower descent (when possible) would definitely help prevent what is potentially a very serious injury.
CC
The one time I had a problem was jumping with a bit of congestion - felt a "click" somewhere inside my cheek and blood started flowing up my goggles from my nostril. Pressure change had burst a blood vessel. The blood dried so quickly I couldn't see a thing until i'd deployed my canopy and could take the googles off.
Acclimatisation doesn't help here - if your eustachian tubes (the things that equalise the pressure either side of your eardrums) are narrow or bunged up with snot then you risk pain or a perforated eardrum. If someone does have this problem then a slower descent (when possible) would definitely help prevent what is potentially a very serious injury.
CC
