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Balpa membership and BA

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Balpa membership and BA

Old 18th Apr 2008, 11:20
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Balpa membership and BA

From Balpa;
"We no longer just work within a few selected airlines but now work across 26 BALPA recognised companies and also recruit and organise in many others."

So how many of these members are in BA?

My point is that Balpa have recently become noticably vocal about BA issues ( I wonder why that could be ) but what about the rest of us? Who else feels that Balpa's emphasis needs to reflect more of the issues effecting all of us?

Before anyone posts about the stand being taken effects us all etc - I realise that and support Balpa and the BA members. However if they where as vocal about the security issues and ID cards etc.........

If Balpa returns to being the BALinePilotsAssociation it could well see those membership numbers drop.

Tin hat on and diving for cover

Last edited by fivegreenlight; 18th Apr 2008 at 11:30.
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 11:43
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5 Greens,

I don't think you need to dive for cover, your points are very valid. Balpa should represent all of its members not just those who work for BA. Recent developments in BALPA are very disturbing and it seems that the union is retreating from the enlightened attituded developed over many years to the darkness of 1970s thinking. This cannot be good for anyone. If BA want their own union then they should start one of their own not hijack and degrade a respected institution that belongs to many others.
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 11:43
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Agree, Just had "The Log" through the door, then delivered a Log while reading "The Log".......ALL BA stuff again nothing about LCC'S again, and when these companies are dealt with in "The Log" I noramly find that they are spoken about from someone who is doing it in a token way.
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 12:09
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You will know BALPA is serious about LCCs when it does something for its members in Ryanair. As in something other than talk.
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 12:10
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Exclamation

If those nasty BA boys lose their current fight, then every pilot in the UK can look forward to a very bleak horizon. The issue at stake is of such fundamental importance, that the US pilots unions are now aligning themselves with BALPA and arranging joint strategies.

For such unprecedented cooperation to occur, all of the protagonists must have decided that the threat to our profession is so severe, that standing together on a global scale is the only way that we can effectively withstand rapacious and opportunistic corporations such as BA, AA and all the others who will doubtlessly take a leaf from their books.

Forty years ago, the seamen of the British merchant marine did not see the threat that outsourcing posed to them and their careers. Now they barely exist, their jobs being done by legions of Phillipinos and Indonesians on chicken feed wages and workhouse terms and conditions.

Today we are on the precipice of such magnitude that the transition from Airline Captain to blue collar machine operative will be swift and sure, unless we face up to the threat RIGHT NOW. The Americans have come to us having realised all too late for some that this is a very real possibility. They have offered their expertise, experience, and resources to fight by our sides.

I acknowledge that the BA Longhaul Pilots Association is often seen as too parochial, but they are dealing with some very weighty issues of fundamental importance to us all. BA has 3000 pilots in BALPA, all paying their 1% of their pots of gold.

BALPA are ensuring that we ALL have a future. Please cut them some slack.
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 12:53
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Too right

Mick Stability has the right of it. As one of those Merchant Seamen he refers to, I know we woke up too late to the real threat. Our industry doesn't exist any more. I've worked for foreign companies for the last thirty years with most of my crews barely trained Indonesian/Filipino etc relying upon the training and experience of a few of us 'round-eyes' to keep everyone out of trouble.

The hilarious thing is that we are all about to retire or die and the shipping companies are bemoaning the lack of skilled seafarers like it was nothing to do with them in the first place!

So guys n gals, take a lesson from us and stick together regardless of company or nationality because if you don't they will screw you ALL royally
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 12:54
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Oh the irony of it all!

Mr talentless bottom feeder can't pass an interview with anybody prepared to pay for there training so in a pathetic bid to achieve his 'dream' of being a below average stick monkey works for peanuts doing jobs that anyone with an ounce of ability or pride would refuse to contmplate, no doubt paying for there own type ratings and line training and thus creating the new model army of low hours pilots that are the wet dreams of the mol's and ww's of the world.

Suddenly having viewed the rise of the self improved wannabee jet pilot as an irrelavence big bad BA pilots find themselves under attack from not only their CEO but said bottom feeders who will do anything to fly a crappy 757 on a route that is beyond boredom and for buttons. Theese arrogant MF's decide to strike to protect their financial futures and the t&c's that all compete for. How dare they!

So the bottom feeder, concerned that his dec command at OS has been scuppered now complains that the union should he pushing for lower salary levels, reduced recruitment standards and work patterns that are unsustainable and frankly in the long term dangerous. But off course FO gypsy unemployable pilot is the new management gold standard and real union action an unthinkable because their MBA course's have shown them that unions collapse when confronted.

So imagine the managements suprise and the bottom feeders distress when we actually say no. I won't let you give my job away and if you want to work for my company under the tailfin I had to earn the right to drive then I expect you to be up to the standards I have to reach.

Balpa's victory will be a victory for all in the industry except the greedy managers and the untalented worthless wannabees who sowed the seeds of that greed.
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 13:19
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work patterns that are unsustainable
We are talking bidline aren't we?

Oh the irony of it all!
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 13:24
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Perhaps the "HH" is a BA pilot in which case he is a "tosser", the vast majority are not in my experience, but more likely an "agent provocateur" from so called "management". Fair enough having a go at management but all pilots "have earned their wings" and often paid dearly for them, deserve a good living and the support of BALPA if they are members and pay their dues. It is time for all pilots to stick together for their mutual benefit , "Together you will win, divided you will certainly fail"
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 13:28
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To succinctly answer 5greenlights, the answer is that less than 50% of BALPA members are BA pilots. Perhaps the reason BA have a higher profile is that they have the most vocal and active company council of any airline in the UK.
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 14:55
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claudillo

no OS will not be flown under bidline rules. 3 back to back east coasts a month 2 man!

spunky monkey

my first job had HUD not FMC and flew supersonic at low level. I worked pretty had to get on the ladder as well. My last 3 years where spent helping others achieve the 'dream' that is being combat ready on a fighter sqn. never been called an arrogant clown before but have quite a few guys buy me pints down route in thanks for helping them out in hard times. I also have to buy quite a few myself. i understand perfectly that as a group we are stonger and better and can achieve more when we work together.

working hard to get on the ladder is not the same as spending daddys money to buy a frozen atpl and then pay for a type rating and work for free. I have plenty of respect for the efforts that peope go to to become pilots. undercutting and working for free only earns my contempt.

erosion of t&c's didn't happen on my watch and i'm doing everything i can to stop it now.

bill of the hamptons

tosser, many thanks. I am a real living and breathing nigel.

its pilots who bought there wings and are willing to work for free that are one of the root causes of the problem here. they are every bit as guilty as the management. i'm afraid it takes a bit more than passing an irt in a light twin for me to give my respect and support to those pilots who undermine the entire funded ab-initio idea with their willingness to pay or their own training. merit and talent used to be the path to wings (still is for the few), now its the ability to raise the cash to pay for the training.

whats the pass rate at oxford? whats the pass rate at cranwell/valley? of course talent and abilty got nothing to do with it when you have cash and a poor standard to attain in the first place. but thats off message anyway. our strike is about the future for all pilots. if you are too stupid to see it then thats your problem. no doubt it's the reason your bleating about BA pilots taking action and using their union rather than fighting whatever issues you have.

Hand Solo

spot on
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 15:02
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Perhaps the "HH" is a BA pilot but more likely an "agent provocateur" from so called "management"
HH is definitely not an ex RN pilot. He can't spell "their" properly. A small point perhaps, but an important one I feel.

There, there, there. Back to the team-building exercises HH.
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 15:05
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Hands, your possibly correct regarding the vocal council. However I think it has more to do with the recent change in chairman. Balpa has in recent years been viewed as a professional organisation rather than just a union and I fear this is rapidly going to change.

I would like to reiterate, I fully support BA's fight and agree it is vital not to let BA managment have their way. But Balpa needs to realise the rest of the members have just as pressing concerns, some that effect everyone of us.

If they put as much publicity and effort into getting aircrew recognised as part of the security solution rather than as potential terrorists we would all benefit.

Last edited by fivegreenlight; 18th Apr 2008 at 15:41.
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 15:10
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dan d'air,

not ex RN but they have my total respect.

victim of a comphrehensive education i'm afraid, spelling/typing never been my forte!
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 15:22
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HH, Good Man!!

Always fun to have a dig at the light blue, ex or not. Friday afternoon boredom downroute so... blue touchpaper, tin hat retire!

Cheers, DD.
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 16:14
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The most bizzare thing is that, by fighting the totally incompetent management of BA (as proven over the T5 cost cutting debacle) and preventing them from destroying a national carriers terms and conditions BALPA IS protecting the jobs of the LCC's and every other pilot wishing to earn a crust in the UK industry!

If the T's & C's of a national carrier get cut to the bone and all of the other management muppets see there is no reason for the overpaid stick monkies to climb the greasy pole as there are no better T's & C's out there how long will the overall decline take?????

Progress to higher wages and better conditions props up the conditions down stream as well! So quit whining!

(Also had to work bl**dy hard to get where I am today, including the low level stuff and am not about to let some Irish git pi$$ it away whilst pocketing his, not inconsiderable, payoff)
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 16:17
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Issues at my airline?
BALPA negotiators too busy on previous occasion to make it (as I understand), cc left with not very much active support?
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 16:37
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wobble2plank,

well said.

it's been said before but would people rush to be treated by the cheapest doctors trained at the worst universities at hospitals that had no interest other than profit?

would you trust your life to a doctor who had learned the 'hard way' and was working long hours for little or no pay because it was his dream rather than because he was good at it and it meant his manager would get a bigger bonus if he kept staff costs down!

again i'm taking this off thread, bad habit i know.

BA plane, BA pilot = more well paid jobs for EVERYBODY
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 17:14
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heavy heavy

your arrogance astounds me in your assumption that pilots in LCCs are automatically sub standard compared to pilots who were lucky enough to be funded for their training.

Just a couple of examples to hole your throry below the waterline - what of pilots who come to flying a little later in life, pass the relevant selection tests at an airline that sponsores and hires direct entries, and are then told 'sorry old chap, we don't take anyone onto xtype who is over 30' so we don't have a slot for you... this one happened to me.

Or, maybe there were no funded cadetships going due to the lack of recruitment when I was trying to get in to flight training. Again this happened to me and once the airlines started recruiting again I was age barred.

So what choice - give up and just worship sky gods such as yourself from afar, wistfully flying a desk for the rest of my miserable existance, or work my b@@@@@@s off to save up the money to buy training and 8 years later get a job with a LCC having gone through exactly the same training course that a BA pilot goes through.

Why don't you get off your high horse and realize that the biggest threat to pilot T&C is an Irish fella who is expert at recruiting pilots from all over to fly his fleet at salary levels that are not great, because they are desperate for a job. Many don't stay long, and many came from some of your beloved high fare high wage cadet sponsoring airlines after they went bust. However, because BALPA is far too BA centric, there is frightening inertia in getting in a union to address the situation, and meanwhile his management tactics are being exported wholesale. Where do think the inspiration for OS came from in the first place....

Rather then denigrating LCC pilots, why don't you try embracing them with a little support, by pushing BALPA to commit to what will be an industry defining scrap with the Irish fella.....
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Old 18th Apr 2008, 17:30
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It's a sad state when we start bitching at each other whilst our erstwhile management are sniggering into their briefcases!

I, personally, have absolutely nothing against anyone who has put their money on the line and had the balls to quit everything and fund themselves. Good on you for having the courage of your own convictions to do so.

I do have a problem with the blank faced, pencil pushing accountants who shove cost savings based on what they can bleed out of those who are desperate for a job up the fat cat management ar$e! They will run everything on the bottom line. Experience counts for nothing and the cheaper the better. The main thing that stems the flow is the cost of re-training those to take the place of the ones who have seen the scam for what it is and take their hard earned experience elsewhere for better returns. Imagine this scenario if that option to move up the ladder is removed! 'Tis not a pretty sight! To exploit the workers, who have to feed families, for a quick profit should have died out with the mills!

Stop the degradation now and take a stand. If it won't come from those joining and paying for basic training requirements (and lets face it, they are the ones who can least afford to rock the boat!) then it must come from those that can afford it and attempt to preserve our professions status.

Have fun

W2P
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