Balpa membership and BA
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This could be money well spent!
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Controversial, moi?
..as M.Mouse seemed to infer -
I pay a large sum of money into BALPA each month. In BA the last CC was seen to be ineffective in various areas in our dealings with the company. The strength of feeling was such that several motivated people stood for election and effectively the old guard was removed. Progress, and by that I mean constructive and mutually beneficial progress between BA and BALPA on numerous issues, followed soon after.
To my shame I confess that I do not have an intimate knowledge of all the various takeover, mergers and other interactions with other airlines CCs when a conflict of interest occurred in the past.
What I would ask is that the vociferous and venomous amongst the posters here stand for election and fight their corner if they perceive their CCs are doing such a bad job against the big bad BACC. Alternatively leave and join the IPA. But to remain and just slag off BALPA and the BACC would strike me as unproductive and frustrating.
Chris Darke was, in my opinion, a disaster for BALPA. Jim McAuslan seems to be an excellent General Secretary and I cannot believe that he is allowing or would allow the BA section to ride roughshod over the majority membership of BALPA i.e. non BA BALPA members.
At the moment BALPA and the BACC are fighting an issue that has repercussions for almost every pilot in the the UK and possibly further afield. I will be retiring sometime in the next 5 years or so. I will be risking much with little to lose but am prepared to stand up and be counted. That action I may be required to take is not purely protecting the interests of BA pilots. If UK pilots believe it is just a BA issue I would suggest that a rude awakening is in store. BALPA are certainly not looking at just the narrow interests of BA pilots in this particular case.
This thread seems to be achieving nothing except serving as a poor example of how very unpleasant pilots can be with such entrenched internecine fighting and bitterness. Given the worldwide and vast readership of this site that saddens me.
When are these BA pilots going to actually put their money where their mouth is and take some kind of action?
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quote: As soon as the court rules whether it is legal for us to do so. I am sure you are not suggesting that BALPA allow the BACC to strike when the resultant damages, should that strike be ruled illegal, would bankrupt BALPA.
Then until this ruling is made by the courts BA pilots should not be asking other pilots to take indirect action by refusing to join OS etc. The recruitment ban should be suspended forthwith. I find it very distasteful that some BA pilots have threatened to label others as "scabs" etc when there is doubt over the legality of any action against OS.
Then until this ruling is made by the courts BA pilots should not be asking other pilots to take indirect action by refusing to join OS etc. The recruitment ban should be suspended forthwith. I find it very distasteful that some BA pilots have threatened to label others as "scabs" etc when there is doubt over the legality of any action against OS.
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wow envy and rejection make for bitter bedfellows! 
as for the ex ryan air chap who daddy etc etc etc - he has no doubt made the grade, and why not, but he most certainley has contributed to the indusutry's rush to reduced T&c's. he no doubt joined BA on BARPS and whilst the pension is an issue we all lost on, please don't start me on that, the reason that BA felt it could get away with offering such a poor package and still recruit was because it was matching the new lowering industry standard! go figure if he helped form the management ethos that drove that decision.
The intersting thing about the 'them and us' situation is that the only real source of info about ryan/flybe/globespan etc etc etc that i get is from the guys who have come to BA from those companies. interestingly they often do not paint a great picture of many of the characters and conditions that they left behind, I suppose why would they have left otherwise.
I am left confused by what it is the BA haters want. somebody asked why NOT bacx to operate the 318 to jfk out of lcy. firstly to want to operate this in my opinion you have to be mad but more importantly exactly why would mainline pillots give up on the potential commands? its a non-sensical and childish proposal. You want the work, will do it cheaper, then get angry when we attempt to preserve our t&c's by demanding that as much work as possible is done by mainline. I understand that it must be soul destroying to work for a group in which you feel disenfranchised and excluded. I understand that it must be galling to be told if you don't like it hump it and I sympathise that the upheval that potential job switching brings to family life. Unfortunatley the laws of economics win out as we will no doubt fiind out in the coming months. I in no way think mailine has a god given right to exisit but i'm relying on my cc to fight tooth and nail for it. and this is where i think MM and others make a valid point which is constantly shouted down.
the BACC job is to look after BA mainline pilots, period. when integration is the flavour of the day, cityflyer, then an attempt at finding the middle ground has to be met. Most of the ex-cf boys i know well are very happy at how it worked out for them. the odd balls that i hear complaining downroute had unattainable expectations and often are the very chaps who had tried on several occasions to join the company but had been unsuccessfull. again not everyone will be happy with any particular outcome. however my point is that the bacc's job is to look after me. the cc of other operators jobs is to do likewise. when our workplace faces rapid change and uncertain future it is only human for us all to want to look after number 1, usually because we provide for mrs no1 and the kids. the threat to us all at the moment should be obvious. balpa is attempting to meet that threat head on and it may break her.
I hope that those who feel nothing but anger at BA and BALPAs stance reflect on the issuse here. what the BA group chooses to do with it's assets in the UK is really up to them within the framework of the agreements. when it decides to ignore the aims of theese agreements to attempt to lower conditions and pay on the mainline company i ask you all to think about the next 5 steps down the masterplan and the effect that has on us all.
I apologise to those i have offended wiith my 'arrogance' during this thread. I see too much envy disguised as anger in the writings of a few and simple manipulation of the facts to convey the idea of betrayal by BA pilots in many others. I get angry at both. every pilot needs a gold standard of employment conditions to reach and at present that 'standard' is at virgin and BA. how did virgin get there, by strong represenation and benchmarking. i think that the ba haters could take a leaf out of the virgin guys caps. use our conditions to improve your lot, just don't expect us to do it for you.
757flyer
i agree that 'scab' is not a word that we should be throwing about.
i have many issues with OS and because of my 'lucky' position have no idea why anybody would want to A. work for stealin mitt & B. do 3 x back 2 back east coasts a month. If its a job you need then i will not be holding that against you and am not in favour of the ban.
i hope you don't mind me offering advice however. the present difficulties at BA will pass and I like many others think this is the end for WW. He has lost the employees and no airline that depends on high customer service survives with low morale troops. the holes in the swiss cheese WILL line up. the board know this, willy knows this, we know it. OS was a gamble before T5 opened and would now be a kamikaze action given the strength of feeling amongst us nigels. if you have a job offer there i would think very hard about the security and longevity which that offer will bring. the individuals heading up OS will happily slip back to mainline BA without an afterthought and leave you high and dry.
good luck
as for the ex ryan air chap who daddy etc etc etc - he has no doubt made the grade, and why not, but he most certainley has contributed to the indusutry's rush to reduced T&c's. he no doubt joined BA on BARPS and whilst the pension is an issue we all lost on, please don't start me on that, the reason that BA felt it could get away with offering such a poor package and still recruit was because it was matching the new lowering industry standard! go figure if he helped form the management ethos that drove that decision.
The intersting thing about the 'them and us' situation is that the only real source of info about ryan/flybe/globespan etc etc etc that i get is from the guys who have come to BA from those companies. interestingly they often do not paint a great picture of many of the characters and conditions that they left behind, I suppose why would they have left otherwise.
I am left confused by what it is the BA haters want. somebody asked why NOT bacx to operate the 318 to jfk out of lcy. firstly to want to operate this in my opinion you have to be mad but more importantly exactly why would mainline pillots give up on the potential commands? its a non-sensical and childish proposal. You want the work, will do it cheaper, then get angry when we attempt to preserve our t&c's by demanding that as much work as possible is done by mainline. I understand that it must be soul destroying to work for a group in which you feel disenfranchised and excluded. I understand that it must be galling to be told if you don't like it hump it and I sympathise that the upheval that potential job switching brings to family life. Unfortunatley the laws of economics win out as we will no doubt fiind out in the coming months. I in no way think mailine has a god given right to exisit but i'm relying on my cc to fight tooth and nail for it. and this is where i think MM and others make a valid point which is constantly shouted down.
the BACC job is to look after BA mainline pilots, period. when integration is the flavour of the day, cityflyer, then an attempt at finding the middle ground has to be met. Most of the ex-cf boys i know well are very happy at how it worked out for them. the odd balls that i hear complaining downroute had unattainable expectations and often are the very chaps who had tried on several occasions to join the company but had been unsuccessfull. again not everyone will be happy with any particular outcome. however my point is that the bacc's job is to look after me. the cc of other operators jobs is to do likewise. when our workplace faces rapid change and uncertain future it is only human for us all to want to look after number 1, usually because we provide for mrs no1 and the kids. the threat to us all at the moment should be obvious. balpa is attempting to meet that threat head on and it may break her.
I hope that those who feel nothing but anger at BA and BALPAs stance reflect on the issuse here. what the BA group chooses to do with it's assets in the UK is really up to them within the framework of the agreements. when it decides to ignore the aims of theese agreements to attempt to lower conditions and pay on the mainline company i ask you all to think about the next 5 steps down the masterplan and the effect that has on us all.
I apologise to those i have offended wiith my 'arrogance' during this thread. I see too much envy disguised as anger in the writings of a few and simple manipulation of the facts to convey the idea of betrayal by BA pilots in many others. I get angry at both. every pilot needs a gold standard of employment conditions to reach and at present that 'standard' is at virgin and BA. how did virgin get there, by strong represenation and benchmarking. i think that the ba haters could take a leaf out of the virgin guys caps. use our conditions to improve your lot, just don't expect us to do it for you.
757flyer
i agree that 'scab' is not a word that we should be throwing about.
i have many issues with OS and because of my 'lucky' position have no idea why anybody would want to A. work for stealin mitt & B. do 3 x back 2 back east coasts a month. If its a job you need then i will not be holding that against you and am not in favour of the ban.
i hope you don't mind me offering advice however. the present difficulties at BA will pass and I like many others think this is the end for WW. He has lost the employees and no airline that depends on high customer service survives with low morale troops. the holes in the swiss cheese WILL line up. the board know this, willy knows this, we know it. OS was a gamble before T5 opened and would now be a kamikaze action given the strength of feeling amongst us nigels. if you have a job offer there i would think very hard about the security and longevity which that offer will bring. the individuals heading up OS will happily slip back to mainline BA without an afterthought and leave you high and dry.
good luck
Last edited by the heavy heavy; 21st Apr 2008 at 15:33.
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HH said:
For the same reason that GSS, CF, CX, and Connect pilots had to give up potential commands on their aircraft!!!! DOH!!!!!
Sometimes you really have to wonder about the BA selection process - and the one at Adastral!
I am left confused by what it is the BA haters want. somebody asked why NOT bacx to operate the 318 to jfk out of lcy. firstly to want to operate this in my opinion you have to be mad but more importantly exactly why would mainline pillots give up on the potential commands?
Sometimes you really have to wonder about the BA selection process - and the one at Adastral!
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Does shouting make an argument more cogent? It is the way children act in the playground. Either present reasoned fact or don't post.
What exactly did the GSS pilots do to try and prevent BA pilots flying their aeroplanes? Same question for CF, CX and Connect pilots. Not trying to be provocative just never heard anything but one way vitriol on this.
What exactly did the GSS pilots do to try and prevent BA pilots flying their aeroplanes? Same question for CF, CX and Connect pilots. Not trying to be provocative just never heard anything but one way vitriol on this.
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Well I said "deary, deary me" back on page three of this "discussion" and we are now on page 5. Whatever it is that is going on it is beyond me. My previous post was completely distorted by somebody who wanted to attack a poster that I had quoted. Apparently I quoted the wrong person.
I quoted the poster because of what he said and I wished to support the ideas he conveyed (ideas I considered to be self-evident). The response was all attack. No discussion. No argument. Just references to past rows/battles/scars/perceived slights or betrayals.
As I read it there are few enough facts and arguments, but a lot of venom out there. Perhaps this is all being fanned by BA management, but I very much doubt it. The level of bitter and twisted comment is more typical of some pilots I have met over the years. Those pilots in my experience never did anything practical to help anyone's cause, including their own. But they are good at venom, I'll say that for them.
I quoted the poster because of what he said and I wished to support the ideas he conveyed (ideas I considered to be self-evident). The response was all attack. No discussion. No argument. Just references to past rows/battles/scars/perceived slights or betrayals.
As I read it there are few enough facts and arguments, but a lot of venom out there. Perhaps this is all being fanned by BA management, but I very much doubt it. The level of bitter and twisted comment is more typical of some pilots I have met over the years. Those pilots in my experience never did anything practical to help anyone's cause, including their own. But they are good at venom, I'll say that for them.
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Just to illustrate what BA BALPA are up against:
In Apr 2002, Charizard wrote:
Well you tried, but then somebody came along, who could do it even cheaper!
And so the wheel turns, until we ALL end up where the accountants want us!
Though to be fair, six months later, once he had his 'feet under the table', the same person was asking:
As I recall, his view was entirely consistent with others who post here. In other words, they wanted to replace 160 or so mainline pilots in the regions, because they were cheaper.
But as soon as they had their feet under the table, they didn't want to be cheaper anymore!
No wonder they were so disappointed when a few were denied mainline seniority, by BA - not BALPA!
I can anticipate precisely the same arguments from OS pilots. Particularly after a few months of 12-14, two man, transatlantic sectors!
In Apr 2002, Charizard wrote:
You have to remember that actually, some of us would be delighted to do your jobs at 2/3rds the salary - hey, we'd probably do it better too!
And so the wheel turns, until we ALL end up where the accountants want us!
Though to be fair, six months later, once he had his 'feet under the table', the same person was asking:
Does anybody know by what percentage going onto BA Ts and Cs would ACTUALLY affect BACX ? I don't believe for a minute the cries of doom from management - but it must presumably have SOME effect.
It would be interesting to know that figure, if only to rebut Management Pilots and Trainers who are all sying it would bring BACX down
It would be interesting to know that figure, if only to rebut Management Pilots and Trainers who are all sying it would bring BACX down
As I recall, his view was entirely consistent with others who post here. In other words, they wanted to replace 160 or so mainline pilots in the regions, because they were cheaper.
But as soon as they had their feet under the table, they didn't want to be cheaper anymore!
No wonder they were so disappointed when a few were denied mainline seniority, by BA - not BALPA!
I can anticipate precisely the same arguments from OS pilots. Particularly after a few months of 12-14, two man, transatlantic sectors!
Last edited by Tandemrotor; 21st Apr 2008 at 08:56.
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Juan,
What action did they take ? Well for a start they probably went to BALPA
The simple fact is it doesn't matter how proactive you are, if it's your CC in disagreement with BACC, history has taught us that BALPA will side with BACC every time.
This is why there is so much bitterness here, not because BA pilots fight for what they have - they have the right to do that............ but because when other pilots do the same they don't get the same support from BALPA.
Those few in BA that think they are gods because they are have a strong CC and are not 'lily livered' have obviously never seen the dark side of BALPA and probably never will.
What action did they take ? Well for a start they probably went to BALPA
The simple fact is it doesn't matter how proactive you are, if it's your CC in disagreement with BACC, history has taught us that BALPA will side with BACC every time.
This is why there is so much bitterness here, not because BA pilots fight for what they have - they have the right to do that............ but because when other pilots do the same they don't get the same support from BALPA.
Those few in BA that think they are gods because they are have a strong CC and are not 'lily livered' have obviously never seen the dark side of BALPA and probably never will.
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HH. I once flew jets in a fully-owned subsidiary of your company 'under the tailfin' and I don't remember you jumping up and down that I was on near half what your FOs take home. Was I there because I was talentless or was it a great stepping stone for a young pilot scrabbling for a job post 9-11. I've also taken and passed your 'gold standard' (and yet surprisingly simple) selection process but thankfully took the right course of action and remain in the more challenging, relaxed and enjoyable arena of charter flying. I almost left flying when at your now defunct subsidiary, I disliked it so much. Now I love my job.
I hope you guys get what you want and keep your well earned contracts and I know it means much to the rest of our industry (as does our current merger). Flying a 757 on mediocre pay (not buttons) for OS is no bad stepping stone and why should that bottom feeder who plainly could never reach you extraordinary standards give any form of sh*te how that effects you? You guys certainly never did it for us.
I rarely have a bad day at the office and that includes flying with many ex RAF, RN and air corps fellas, but in my 8 years flying airliners and I've had one of those days when I want to go home and cause my poor partner ear ache over the pompous, over confident, boring t*rd I've just had to spend hours sitting next to, why is it they are almost always ex-supersonic HUD drivers who used to wear light blue.
I think tosser was a bit rich too.
I'm off to visually hand fly my airbus into a greek island and be home tonight (as I always am) to enjoy 5 days off followed by 3 (never used) standbys for buttons.
How's terminal 5?
I hope you guys get what you want and keep your well earned contracts and I know it means much to the rest of our industry (as does our current merger). Flying a 757 on mediocre pay (not buttons) for OS is no bad stepping stone and why should that bottom feeder who plainly could never reach you extraordinary standards give any form of sh*te how that effects you? You guys certainly never did it for us.
I rarely have a bad day at the office and that includes flying with many ex RAF, RN and air corps fellas, but in my 8 years flying airliners and I've had one of those days when I want to go home and cause my poor partner ear ache over the pompous, over confident, boring t*rd I've just had to spend hours sitting next to, why is it they are almost always ex-supersonic HUD drivers who used to wear light blue.
I think tosser was a bit rich too.
I'm off to visually hand fly my airbus into a greek island and be home tonight (as I always am) to enjoy 5 days off followed by 3 (never used) standbys for buttons.
How's terminal 5?
Controversial, moi?
Then until this ruling is made by the courts BA pilots should not be asking other pilots to take indirect action by refusing to join OS etc. The recruitment ban should be suspended forthwith. I find it very distasteful that some BA pilots have threatened to label others as "scabs" etc when there is doubt over the legality of any action against OS.
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quote M.Mouse: The dispute is real enough the legal issue is BA trying to block the BACC's attempt at preventing BA driving a coach and horses through our Ts & Cs in the future. Why not undermine the BACC just like a certain UK airline did to the Australian pilots in their major dispute in the 80s?
This is a completely different situation, you are asking (demanding) that other pilot groups take secondary action against BA re Openskies by not accepting employment, at the same time you are not taking any action due to a court case!!! In other words you are demanding that other people fight your battles for you!! There is no strike busting going on here (unlike the aussie dispute). Seems to me you want your cake and eat it. What support have you given to other fellow Balpa companies in the past in the way of secondary action?? NOTHING because it is illegal and also i very much suspect there would be zero interest about disputes outside BA.
Openskies is NOT BA, it is a seperate company, it isnt even going to operate in the UK!! Tell me.... if Lufthansa set up a similar operation would you be taking the action you are now?? I think not, you are not even challenging the so called piss poor terms and conditions of this company, BUT you want everybody on the mainline seniority list?? doesnt add up!!
Why dont you demand that Air France pilots .... Delta pilots etc are on your master list as well because they WILL be operating out of heathrow in direct competition to BA, they are your biggest threat to your very existance! AF/KLM are going to convert terminal 4 into a Skyteam terminal with direct connections and routes to the USA!! You need to support Openskies so BA can take competition to the back yard of Lufti AF KLM etc that way you will be securing your future terms and conditions.
The times are achanging, move with them or die.
This is a completely different situation, you are asking (demanding) that other pilot groups take secondary action against BA re Openskies by not accepting employment, at the same time you are not taking any action due to a court case!!! In other words you are demanding that other people fight your battles for you!! There is no strike busting going on here (unlike the aussie dispute). Seems to me you want your cake and eat it. What support have you given to other fellow Balpa companies in the past in the way of secondary action?? NOTHING because it is illegal and also i very much suspect there would be zero interest about disputes outside BA.
Openskies is NOT BA, it is a seperate company, it isnt even going to operate in the UK!! Tell me.... if Lufthansa set up a similar operation would you be taking the action you are now?? I think not, you are not even challenging the so called piss poor terms and conditions of this company, BUT you want everybody on the mainline seniority list?? doesnt add up!!
Why dont you demand that Air France pilots .... Delta pilots etc are on your master list as well because they WILL be operating out of heathrow in direct competition to BA, they are your biggest threat to your very existance! AF/KLM are going to convert terminal 4 into a Skyteam terminal with direct connections and routes to the USA!! You need to support Openskies so BA can take competition to the back yard of Lufti AF KLM etc that way you will be securing your future terms and conditions.
The times are achanging, move with them or die.
Last edited by 757flyer; 21st Apr 2008 at 12:10.
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Pidge,
Please dont misquote me, I'm quite happy making provocative statements on my own. Well done you for finding our selection so easy, should I say 'simple' given the numbers that dont u must be a great candidate for any job and am happy you have found a company that has the right balance of work/lifestyle for you.
My point about gold standard was about pay and conditions. U earn less than your equivlant in BA or virgin, that's all I was infering.
Hand flying into the Greek islands, ur pick of jobs due to ur finding the selections easy, the real sky god of this forum steps forward.
Please dont misquote me, I'm quite happy making provocative statements on my own. Well done you for finding our selection so easy, should I say 'simple' given the numbers that dont u must be a great candidate for any job and am happy you have found a company that has the right balance of work/lifestyle for you.
My point about gold standard was about pay and conditions. U earn less than your equivlant in BA or virgin, that's all I was infering.
Hand flying into the Greek islands, ur pick of jobs due to ur finding the selections easy, the real sky god of this forum steps forward.
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757flyer,
Such a disengenous post leads me to suspect your motives.
It most certainly is BA. That why its OS by BA on the side of the jet! It will be utilising the BA groups assets and using our brand, tattered as it is, to sell seats. The long term aims of the OS project is there to see for all in jeststar and American Eagle. Anybody taking a job at OS has in my humble opinion every right to do so. Just like the BACC has every right to follow their members wishes and seek the inclusion of that workforce in the mainline group. Anybody who wants to work for OS and doesn't see the advantages of being on mainline list is without a doubt either a ba manager or very stupid.
This is a start up new fleet within BA. The BACC's actions will not be taking jobs or careers from anybody, trust me there will be no rush to OS from the present fleets. If successful the BACC's resolve will provide more not fewer pilots acccess to the security I enjoy at present.
If you dont support balpa''s stance on this then u defacto stand with WW and his brand new world anti pilot zealots.
Such a disengenous post leads me to suspect your motives.
It most certainly is BA. That why its OS by BA on the side of the jet! It will be utilising the BA groups assets and using our brand, tattered as it is, to sell seats. The long term aims of the OS project is there to see for all in jeststar and American Eagle. Anybody taking a job at OS has in my humble opinion every right to do so. Just like the BACC has every right to follow their members wishes and seek the inclusion of that workforce in the mainline group. Anybody who wants to work for OS and doesn't see the advantages of being on mainline list is without a doubt either a ba manager or very stupid.
This is a start up new fleet within BA. The BACC's actions will not be taking jobs or careers from anybody, trust me there will be no rush to OS from the present fleets. If successful the BACC's resolve will provide more not fewer pilots acccess to the security I enjoy at present.
If you dont support balpa''s stance on this then u defacto stand with WW and his brand new world anti pilot zealots.
Last edited by the heavy heavy; 21st Apr 2008 at 19:17.
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757flyer you appear to be either a very misinformed person or a very self-serving person. Apparently all BA has to do is threaten court action and you figure you are free to do as you wish ... but then you were always free to do as you wished, even when there was no court action.
If fact why don't you write directly to WW and offer yourself for a job in BA at, say, 60% of their B747 scale. WW will be happy and so will you. You will not be taking anyone's job or impacting on the conditions of other BA pilots (perish the thought) but rather improving BA's competitiveness. In fact, why waste you time writing here, just go for it!
Bonus: You can blame it all on BALPA if it goes wrong!! Nothing to lose!!!
If fact why don't you write directly to WW and offer yourself for a job in BA at, say, 60% of their B747 scale. WW will be happy and so will you. You will not be taking anyone's job or impacting on the conditions of other BA pilots (perish the thought) but rather improving BA's competitiveness. In fact, why waste you time writing here, just go for it!
Bonus: You can blame it all on BALPA if it goes wrong!! Nothing to lose!!!
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The "debate"
Thank you Capt Jumbo, sadly I think my humble attempt to bring some historical fact & observations of human dynamics to this discussion was not generally well received. No surprises there of course as most threads of this type are popular with those who want to whinge (or bang on in the crew room yet fail to fill in the CC questionaire) and don't want to debate an important issue & find a win win way forward.
BAMANAGER is right, management will be laughing their socks off whilst calculating their bonuses. Divide & rule works every time.
Re this "Just to be clear here, are you saying that Chris Darke did a better job as General Secretary than Jim McAuslan is doing?"
When did I mention who was better? It is historical fact, that CD began the process of making BALPA more inclusive and growing its membership as a result. BA made their contribution too by giving up a constituency seat on the NEC.
The only point I was making was that lessons are seldom learned. CD was ousted - and true or not it was seen as a BA coup - and the BACC failed "help a brother" when it was needed. Am I supposed to censor history to make it more agreeable?
The lesson there, as others have said, is that all learn from the BACC mistake back then & have everyone stand behind anybody's issue, they are all important.
Whatever else may be going on, there is - as I said before - a perceived BA bias, real or not. It's something BALPA needs to fix. That's all.
BAMANAGER is right, management will be laughing their socks off whilst calculating their bonuses. Divide & rule works every time.
Re this "Just to be clear here, are you saying that Chris Darke did a better job as General Secretary than Jim McAuslan is doing?"
When did I mention who was better? It is historical fact, that CD began the process of making BALPA more inclusive and growing its membership as a result. BA made their contribution too by giving up a constituency seat on the NEC.
The only point I was making was that lessons are seldom learned. CD was ousted - and true or not it was seen as a BA coup - and the BACC failed "help a brother" when it was needed. Am I supposed to censor history to make it more agreeable?
The lesson there, as others have said, is that all learn from the BACC mistake back then & have everyone stand behind anybody's issue, they are all important.
Whatever else may be going on, there is - as I said before - a perceived BA bias, real or not. It's something BALPA needs to fix. That's all.
Last edited by Southernboy; 21st Apr 2008 at 16:53. Reason: typo
Controversial, moi?
757flyer
You plainly have read little about the OpenLies dispute or you would not write such arrant nonsense.
Southernboy
If there is a real or perceived BA bias to BALPA please write to Jim McAuslan with your concerns, reasoning and examples. I know he will take the allegations and examples seriously and, without doubt, BALPA would be stronger without any bias.
It would be interesting to be kept informed of the content of a letter setting out your allegations and Jim's response.
You plainly have read little about the OpenLies dispute or you would not write such arrant nonsense.
Southernboy
If there is a real or perceived BA bias to BALPA please write to Jim McAuslan with your concerns, reasoning and examples. I know he will take the allegations and examples seriously and, without doubt, BALPA would be stronger without any bias.
It would be interesting to be kept informed of the content of a letter setting out your allegations and Jim's response.
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The sheer venom and nastiness of some posters on this thread is astounding.
Perhaps I've led too sheltered a life, but to read the hatred written between (and sometimes on) the lines here has really surprised me.
I used to 'visually hand fly my airbus into the Greek islands' as well but I gave it up for a job with more roster stability. I don't see the relevance to the argument, Pidge.
Mods - can we start a new forum for embittered regionals - they seem to be everywhere...
Perhaps I've led too sheltered a life, but to read the hatred written between (and sometimes on) the lines here has really surprised me.
I used to 'visually hand fly my airbus into the Greek islands' as well but I gave it up for a job with more roster stability. I don't see the relevance to the argument, Pidge.
Mods - can we start a new forum for embittered regionals - they seem to be everywhere...
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M Mouse
" You plainly have read little about the OpenLies dispute or you would not write such arrant nonsense."
You're half right but I don't think I've commented on it have I? Which particular part of my post is "Arrant nonsense?"
As for writing to Jim, sorry can't be doing with any of that any more, I gave 10 years hard work to my CC and am v glad to be away from it, go fight your own battles.
For what it's worth I am very cynical about corporate behavior & don't subscribe to the view that some have stated that "I'd do your job for half the money." Nobody should have their Ts&Cs undermined.
I think I just said pilots should stick together & ALL disputes are important to someone didn't I? Was that the nonsense?
The post above mentions embittered regionals. They've been dealt a very sh**ty hand or 2 over the last few years. Maybe if everyone understood other peoples problems more then you could all pull together. Their plight wasn't BA pilots fault but then some BA pilots live in a BA bubble, & don't help their cause either by failing to appreciate what it's like to be bullied & have NO control over a private life.
Not that any of this is anything to do with the central issue but it's a lot to do with bad blood displayed here.
You're half right but I don't think I've commented on it have I? Which particular part of my post is "Arrant nonsense?"
As for writing to Jim, sorry can't be doing with any of that any more, I gave 10 years hard work to my CC and am v glad to be away from it, go fight your own battles.
For what it's worth I am very cynical about corporate behavior & don't subscribe to the view that some have stated that "I'd do your job for half the money." Nobody should have their Ts&Cs undermined.
I think I just said pilots should stick together & ALL disputes are important to someone didn't I? Was that the nonsense?
The post above mentions embittered regionals. They've been dealt a very sh**ty hand or 2 over the last few years. Maybe if everyone understood other peoples problems more then you could all pull together. Their plight wasn't BA pilots fault but then some BA pilots live in a BA bubble, & don't help their cause either by failing to appreciate what it's like to be bullied & have NO control over a private life.
Not that any of this is anything to do with the central issue but it's a lot to do with bad blood displayed here.