Ryanair B738 off runway in Limoges (LFBL/France)
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Anomaly!!!!!!!
Skydrol, you're the one who needs a dictionary!
It's spelt ANOMALY for chrissakes!
And anyway, does it really matter so long as we all know what was meant? As for Limoges, the little Robin I flew there was so floaty, I was able to touch'n'go 3 times along the long, long runway before I saw the green bit at the end...
Mind yew, there is a tiny difference between a Robin and a 737, I s'pose!
What happened to the autobrakes then? I understood they were the Professional Pilots' favouritest invention of recent years....
It's spelt ANOMALY for chrissakes!
And anyway, does it really matter so long as we all know what was meant? As for Limoges, the little Robin I flew there was so floaty, I was able to touch'n'go 3 times along the long, long runway before I saw the green bit at the end...
Mind yew, there is a tiny difference between a Robin and a 737, I s'pose!
What happened to the autobrakes then? I understood they were the Professional Pilots' favouritest invention of recent years....
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@Captplaystation, "makes me think the speed at the end of the R/W may have been fairly substantial , as I imagine that goo was fairly effective as a retardation device."
Spot on about the speed, and the goo was fully waterlogged and ankle deep when standing on it. Thankfully.
A query, when are the overwing exits used, always in an emergency evac or just when the C reckons they're needed?
Spot on about the speed, and the goo was fully waterlogged and ankle deep when standing on it. Thankfully.
A query, when are the overwing exits used, always in an emergency evac or just when the C reckons they're needed?
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Our evacuation PA is ( should have been anyway. . . )
" evacuate the aircraft using all available exits" ( rolls nice and easily off the tongue eh ? particularly in it's full form and for non native English speakers. . . Duh )
So whether overwings were used would normally depend on who was sitting at them, unless you remember a PA to the contrary. If the situation was felt to be serious enough to warrant an evacuation I can't from this distance see an obvious reason why they wouldn't have been used. Captain's call on the day, which of course he will have to justify.
If you find the time, I am sure we would still be interested to hear your version of events.
" evacuate the aircraft using all available exits" ( rolls nice and easily off the tongue eh ? particularly in it's full form and for non native English speakers. . . Duh )
So whether overwings were used would normally depend on who was sitting at them, unless you remember a PA to the contrary. If the situation was felt to be serious enough to warrant an evacuation I can't from this distance see an obvious reason why they wouldn't have been used. Captain's call on the day, which of course he will have to justify.
If you find the time, I am sure we would still be interested to hear your version of events.
Originally Posted by LIMpass
A query, when are the overwing exits used, always in an emergency evac or just when the C reckons they're needed?
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I don't think I've ever been briefed on how to operate the overwing exit, either on Ryanair or anyone else, however most US airlines draw attention to the fact that you must be willing and physically able to open the door if you sit by the overwing exit
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I remember years ago on a US Airways 737 flight between Philadelphia and Montreal a request for English speakers to change seats with French speaking passengers who were occupying emergency exit seats. At the time I did wonder how many other airlines take into consideration language problems in emergencies.
(On a related matter, has anyone any experience of cabin/flight deck crew who are non-native English speakers working for airlines based in the English-speaking world and how they responded during emergency situations (specifically in relation to language, of course)? I'd be interested to hear from you.)
(On a related matter, has anyone any experience of cabin/flight deck crew who are non-native English speakers working for airlines based in the English-speaking world and how they responded during emergency situations (specifically in relation to language, of course)? I'd be interested to hear from you.)
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I flew for a US carrier and not only did the cabin staff make a point of briefing the pax in exit rows, but would also demonstrate exactly how it should be done i.e. how to grasp the handles etc.
The value of this was always apparent during training when we simulated emergency evacuation with a full aircraft. Unless the passenger seated by the exit knew EXACTLY how to do it, the results were disastrous.
Hence, on Ryanair, I always occupy the exit row. Perhaps one day I'll be asked if I know how to open it!
The value of this was always apparent during training when we simulated emergency evacuation with a full aircraft. Unless the passenger seated by the exit knew EXACTLY how to do it, the results were disastrous.
Hence, on Ryanair, I always occupy the exit row. Perhaps one day I'll be asked if I know how to open it!
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I can only imagine that the US and Irish regulatory authorities simply have different rules. I think that this must be the reason why the last row on Ryanair's 737s is designated as an emergency exit row even though there is no actual overwing exit (the logic being that passengers in this row might have to open the rear doors). I assume Aer Lingus and other Irish airlines have an identical arrangement.
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I don't think I've ever been briefed on how to operate the overwing exit, either on Ryanair or anyone else, however most US airlines draw attention to the fact that you must be willing and physically able to open the door if you sit by the overwing exit
If you do any different, I don't want to be in the back the day you land in Blackpool/ Lubeck / Derry/ Altenburg / Bournemouth / Bristol or even Limoges I guess.
Could BHD be on that list as well?
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I have never been briefed on the emergency exits. Even not on Lufthansa, Air Berlin, Ryanair, Easyjet, AA or Canadian.
Ryanair was the only carrier, I have been asked if I can speak english on these rows and I watched that children or old people have been removed from those seats.
Ryanair was the only carrier, I have been asked if I can speak english on these rows and I watched that children or old people have been removed from those seats.
I have never been briefed on the emergency exits. Even not on Lufthansa, Air Berlin, Ryanair, Easyjet, AA or Canadian
Rat 5;
Fully concur with your comments. In fact using maximum reverse thrust until the aircraft is stopped is permitted and even recommended in some SOPs, along with, or course, maximum pedal deflection (into the kitchen). Good reminder that autosystems, while superb, don't relieve the crew of their primary duty - to control the aircraft under all circumstances - auto-systems are only a "how", not a "what".
A4;
A link to the complete report:
http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/...904538_001.pdf
and to ATSB comments:
http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/editorials/e00012.aspx
and to other commentary:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...s_/ai_74294022
The point of providing these links once again is not to criticize a fine airline nor even to point to the fact that accidents can happen anywhere to any airline but to note that effective and engaged use of their data-monitoring program could have provided sufficient information regarding operations on contaminated runways to prevent the accident. This fact was observed in the ATSB report in the sense that QAR data was not routinely employed by their flight operations department for risk assessment including changes in SOPs. The reduced flap setting/reduced brake settings which you observe were available in the data at the time but not employed.
I know Ryanair routinely employs FDM and analyses the data including the use of crew calls where indicated. The question then might be, were there indications in the data regarding the risk of overrrun or was this a once-of?
PJ2
Fully concur with your comments. In fact using maximum reverse thrust until the aircraft is stopped is permitted and even recommended in some SOPs, along with, or course, maximum pedal deflection (into the kitchen). Good reminder that autosystems, while superb, don't relieve the crew of their primary duty - to control the aircraft under all circumstances - auto-systems are only a "how", not a "what".
A4;
One of the findings of the QF "golf course" accident at Bangkok was a lack of awareness amoungst crews regarding retardation when experiencing aquaplaneing. QF had adopted a policy of Reverse idle, reduced flap and an intermediate autobrake setting to save money. Less engine wear,less fuel, less noise.... and it worked, they saved several million dollars in the 2-3 years before the accident.
http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/...904538_001.pdf
and to ATSB comments:
http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/editorials/e00012.aspx
and to other commentary:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...s_/ai_74294022
The point of providing these links once again is not to criticize a fine airline nor even to point to the fact that accidents can happen anywhere to any airline but to note that effective and engaged use of their data-monitoring program could have provided sufficient information regarding operations on contaminated runways to prevent the accident. This fact was observed in the ATSB report in the sense that QAR data was not routinely employed by their flight operations department for risk assessment including changes in SOPs. The reduced flap setting/reduced brake settings which you observe were available in the data at the time but not employed.
I know Ryanair routinely employs FDM and analyses the data including the use of crew calls where indicated. The question then might be, were there indications in the data regarding the risk of overrrun or was this a once-of?
PJ2
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"If you find the time, I am sure we would still be interested to hear your version of events."
Two weeks after the event I have to wonder if any passengers are being asked for an account of what transpired on our flight, either by the relevant authorities or by the airline. Who is undertaking the investigation? Is there an investigation?
Is it coincidental that there was tension on the plane from before we took off in wet and buffeting conditions from CharIeroi. Where had the flight arrived at Charleroi from? What was that landing like, the conditions were not too disimilar to those we met later at Limoges.
It is our belief that there are serious lessons to be learned from this incident. There are serious implications for cabin crew training. There are serious implications for organisation culture in RYR. And there are significant broader implications for safety at, and the regulatory governance of European regional airports.
It would be all too easy to blame the pilot, or to blame the airport (or both) for what happened during our landing at Limoges. However, it was ultimately corporate interests above all others which determined that our flight land on time in very dodgy conditions at an airport that is in no way whatsoever equipped for a bad accident.
How long would it have taken a fleet of ambulances and medics to get to the airport? How long altogether to get injured passengers transferred to hospital? These are the thoughts that cross your mind when you have a lucky escape, as we had at Limoges.
Two weeks after the event I have to wonder if any passengers are being asked for an account of what transpired on our flight, either by the relevant authorities or by the airline. Who is undertaking the investigation? Is there an investigation?
Is it coincidental that there was tension on the plane from before we took off in wet and buffeting conditions from CharIeroi. Where had the flight arrived at Charleroi from? What was that landing like, the conditions were not too disimilar to those we met later at Limoges.
It is our belief that there are serious lessons to be learned from this incident. There are serious implications for cabin crew training. There are serious implications for organisation culture in RYR. And there are significant broader implications for safety at, and the regulatory governance of European regional airports.
It would be all too easy to blame the pilot, or to blame the airport (or both) for what happened during our landing at Limoges. However, it was ultimately corporate interests above all others which determined that our flight land on time in very dodgy conditions at an airport that is in no way whatsoever equipped for a bad accident.
How long would it have taken a fleet of ambulances and medics to get to the airport? How long altogether to get injured passengers transferred to hospital? These are the thoughts that cross your mind when you have a lucky escape, as we had at Limoges.
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Briefing the pax on how use the emerg exits will only be done during an emergency where an evacuation may or will be required. No1 will receive a NITS drill from the Captain indicating weither or not he/she should do the SOS-drill which basically is a procedure to prepare the pax for impact and an evacuation. Pax in emergency rows need to be Able Bodied Passengers (ABP). They must be min 18 years old, english speaking and generally fit.
During the SOS-drill, the ABP's are briefed on how to open the door/window.
Limoges has a crap G/S signal (09, is it?). Between 300-100 feet, if memory serves..it goes up and down like a yo-yo. If the autopilot is in, the aircraft will really start pitching up/dn.
What I would like to know is some info on the topic, instead of all these comments on previous posts. Don't you all agree? I mean clicking on this thread...then I would like to know the cause. Too many comment without having anything to add/contribute to the case.
Pprune...
Not talking about the above post.
During the SOS-drill, the ABP's are briefed on how to open the door/window.
Limoges has a crap G/S signal (09, is it?). Between 300-100 feet, if memory serves..it goes up and down like a yo-yo. If the autopilot is in, the aircraft will really start pitching up/dn.
What I would like to know is some info on the topic, instead of all these comments on previous posts. Don't you all agree? I mean clicking on this thread...then I would like to know the cause. Too many comment without having anything to add/contribute to the case.
Pprune...Not talking about the above post.
RYR-738-JOCKEY;
Precisely. That is the reason for my comments, links and question regarding Ryanair's FDM Program in my post above. So far, no response.
What I would like to know is some info on the topic, instead of all these comments on previous posts. Don't you all agree? I mean clicking on this thread...then I would like to know the cause. Too many comment without having anything to add/contribute to the case.