No more expat pilots in India after June´08?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ...
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No more expat pilots in India after June´08?
Does anyone know something about this? it looks like by the time being it is only a recommendation made by the indian civil aviation...
Regards.
Regards.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One has to ask...does anyone really care?
The Indian DGCA is corrept from stem to stern, and has been for many many years.
I personally testified at arbitration for one ACMI carrier against 'em (and Air India), and they were shown (clearly) for the farce that they are...in spades.
What was the concerned carrier awarded?...seven million bucks. Took 'em to the cleaners.
Them's the facts.
The Indian DGCA is corrept from stem to stern, and has been for many many years.
I personally testified at arbitration for one ACMI carrier against 'em (and Air India), and they were shown (clearly) for the farce that they are...in spades.
What was the concerned carrier awarded?...seven million bucks. Took 'em to the cleaners.
Them's the facts.
quidquid excusatio prandium pro
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 349
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As with any expat arrangement, the contracts will reflect the current needs of the carrier, referenced to the absence of suitably qualified local pilots, and said airline’s ability (and connectedness) to justify same to Ministry in Charge of Foreign Corruption and Domestic Purity, absent any prior connections by marriage, blood relation, or erstwhile dalliance, convenient or otherwise.
That notwithstanding, the local pilot population will always demand termination of ‘expert’ pilots at the earliest opportunity, said opportunity being their first landing that does not, in fact, burst more than 50 percent of available tires, or frighten the majority of their passengers into considering transport to destination by alternative terrestrial means.
Call me cynical. It’s a tough world out there, my heart goes out to the aspiring pilots that put up with it all in the name of aviation. Ne’er was there a crueler mistress.
That notwithstanding, the local pilot population will always demand termination of ‘expert’ pilots at the earliest opportunity, said opportunity being their first landing that does not, in fact, burst more than 50 percent of available tires, or frighten the majority of their passengers into considering transport to destination by alternative terrestrial means.
Call me cynical. It’s a tough world out there, my heart goes out to the aspiring pilots that put up with it all in the name of aviation. Ne’er was there a crueler mistress.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was supposed to be in India this past November as an FO. I have been waiting around for a PC as nobody was willing to pay for it... Last week when the jerkoffs in India agreed to pay for my PC (it only took since August to figure this out), the DGCA banned all expat FO's. Oh well, I am now going to CA upgrade anyday now instead (so I am being told)...
From what I hear, the local FO's are real winners! They cant do ANYTHING! Trust me I know from previous experience as I was probably their flight instructor a few years ago...
From what I hear, the local FO's are real winners! They cant do ANYTHING! Trust me I know from previous experience as I was probably their flight instructor a few years ago...
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: At home
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I turned down an indian gig a while ago......the more I read about those who didn't, the happier I am about my decision.
You can't blame a country for wanting to employ their own people, but when decisions are made based on what is written on your passport, or the colour of your skin, it becomes a little concerning. I saw far too much of that in Africa.
driving may be a better option
You can't blame a country for wanting to employ their own people, but when decisions are made based on what is written on your passport, or the colour of your skin, it becomes a little concerning. I saw far too much of that in Africa.
driving may be a better option
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dark side of the force
Age: 54
Posts: 294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I saw many indian pilots get killed on 89-91 in US when I was there on traininng and later as FI, everyweek a couple of them. No english, no technical staff, sorry to say this but I don´t trust them.
N4790P
You can't blame a country for wanting to employ their own people
Is this so really so unusual?
No matter where you reside/work, apart from one’s own country, you require:-
EU – Need correct passport or right to work
US - Need correct passport or right to work
Rest of the world - Need correct passport or right to work
India – See above
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: At home
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I quite agree, however it's a matter of having suitable candidates.
All of these countries also recognise when there is a skills shortage (perhaps with the exception on the US), and encourage foreign labour until enough of their own countrymen make the grade.
Arbitrarily cutting out foreign labour in an industry where experience is so important to safety is a cause for concern.
All of these countries also recognise when there is a skills shortage (perhaps with the exception on the US), and encourage foreign labour until enough of their own countrymen make the grade.
Arbitrarily cutting out foreign labour in an industry where experience is so important to safety is a cause for concern.
WTR
WTR
Try not to quote hearsay, it reduces your credibility to childish -not professional...
Am a trainer on the Airbus 320 and now 330. I can assure you that the local FOs are every bit as good or better then the expats.
In addition they are on a general scale very hard working and more important can understand the local lingo...
Many Indians even Captains are NEVER employed by any EU or US airline inspite of having all the requirements and much higher experience...
Need I say more???
JB
Try not to quote hearsay, it reduces your credibility to childish -not professional...
Am a trainer on the Airbus 320 and now 330. I can assure you that the local FOs are every bit as good or better then the expats.
In addition they are on a general scale very hard working and more important can understand the local lingo...
Many Indians even Captains are NEVER employed by any EU or US airline inspite of having all the requirements and much higher experience...
Need I say more???
JB
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jazbag,
My sources are very credible as they are my friends who I have many hours flown with and they give me the daily update on Skype.
250 hr wonderkids that leaned to fly at a pilot factory at an uncontrolled airport are not ready for a jet! I have prior experience teaching at a pilot facotry that was contracted to teach Indians how to fly and then send them back to go fly a jet. No matter what, they would walk out with a "license to learn"... Thats the nature of a pilot factory. Especially one where the examiners own the school... There is a reason why schools like this get these contracts!
I am not bashing Indians. I am bashing the DGCA for allowing such inexperience in the cockpit. Maybe when they get to you in your A330, they have figured it out by now? Or maybe they just hide behind your autoland funtion? Im sorry my jet doesnt have that ability!
My sources are very credible as they are my friends who I have many hours flown with and they give me the daily update on Skype.
250 hr wonderkids that leaned to fly at a pilot factory at an uncontrolled airport are not ready for a jet! I have prior experience teaching at a pilot facotry that was contracted to teach Indians how to fly and then send them back to go fly a jet. No matter what, they would walk out with a "license to learn"... Thats the nature of a pilot factory. Especially one where the examiners own the school... There is a reason why schools like this get these contracts!
I am not bashing Indians. I am bashing the DGCA for allowing such inexperience in the cockpit. Maybe when they get to you in your A330, they have figured it out by now? Or maybe they just hide behind your autoland funtion? Im sorry my jet doesnt have that ability!
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,499
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As for the standard of Indian pilots; I've flown with Indian Captains as well as Indian Copilots. All with a very high standard in knowledge and skill. Friendly and eager to pick up any "nuggets" you might have to offer. The occational w@nker, but that's fairly universal.
On the downside, some of them showed an unusual willingness to bend the rules, especially duty limitations.
Having said that, the Indian aviation boom is producing some very low skilled/experienced copilots. Some of which are operating in a "cruise only" capacity on Indian jets. No take off or landings. Bit of a worry, as the Indian airspace/airports/weather can be very challenging. Not the place to fly single pilot, so to speak.
On the downside, some of them showed an unusual willingness to bend the rules, especially duty limitations.
Having said that, the Indian aviation boom is producing some very low skilled/experienced copilots. Some of which are operating in a "cruise only" capacity on Indian jets. No take off or landings. Bit of a worry, as the Indian airspace/airports/weather can be very challenging. Not the place to fly single pilot, so to speak.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ...
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok guys this threat was open to discuss about the possibilty of not being able to go to India after June as an expat....
Can anyone throw some light on this?? there´s a lot of people waiting to go and we are starting to freak out....
Regards.
Can anyone throw some light on this?? there´s a lot of people waiting to go and we are starting to freak out....
Regards.
PPRuNe supporter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,677
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
250 hr wonderkids that leaned to fly at a pilot factory at an uncontrolled airport are not ready for a jet! I have prior experience teaching at a pilot facotry that was contracted to teach Indians how to fly and then send them back to go fly a jet. No matter what, they would walk out with a "license to learn"... Thats the nature of a pilot factory. Especially one where the examiners own the school... There is a reason why schools like this get these contracts!
I couldn't even spell airplane when I had that much flying time. 
WTR
One exercise which i always make young FOs do without which i cannot clear anyone is pilot incapacitation. Most clear this test without any shade of doubt. Some need retraining both expats and Indians. Where the Indians score is following the staccato (rapid fire) English used in Mumbai and Delhi ATC.
I have trained pilots from South America to Australia and they all have basic skills but they generally wait to be told... but the locals get together and prepare on their own and ask. Here it is a communication issue.
No comments on DGCA.... except that they want to be JAR compliant soon.
JB
One exercise which i always make young FOs do without which i cannot clear anyone is pilot incapacitation. Most clear this test without any shade of doubt. Some need retraining both expats and Indians. Where the Indians score is following the staccato (rapid fire) English used in Mumbai and Delhi ATC.
I have trained pilots from South America to Australia and they all have basic skills but they generally wait to be told... but the locals get together and prepare on their own and ask. Here it is a communication issue.
No comments on DGCA.... except that they want to be JAR compliant soon.
JB
I recieved this 10 minutes ago
Dear All,
We received an email from XXXX this morning confirming that the DGCA are putting a stop to foreign co- pilots from June 1st 2008.
The reasons for this are supposed to be political due to the number of unemployed Indian nationals looking for an F/O position.
Initially we understood that provided a XXXX was based trained and security cleared before June 1 they could continue to fly on a temporary validation for 3 months. Any XXXX already in India with a temporary validation could extend to a further 9 months on passing Air Law. However we now understand that the DGCA want all foreign co-pilots to cease flying on June 1.
This is a considerable problem for XXXX as they are short of pilots. We are investigating any work arounds that we can but as of the moment we must assume that June 1 is the final date.
Like you we are very disappointed at this development. It is completely out of the control of XXXX and XXXX and may have been brought about by political pressure in an election year.
We will keep you informed of any developments.
Edited to say that I'm due to fly out tomorrow!!!
We received an email from XXXX this morning confirming that the DGCA are putting a stop to foreign co- pilots from June 1st 2008.
The reasons for this are supposed to be political due to the number of unemployed Indian nationals looking for an F/O position.
Initially we understood that provided a XXXX was based trained and security cleared before June 1 they could continue to fly on a temporary validation for 3 months. Any XXXX already in India with a temporary validation could extend to a further 9 months on passing Air Law. However we now understand that the DGCA want all foreign co-pilots to cease flying on June 1.
This is a considerable problem for XXXX as they are short of pilots. We are investigating any work arounds that we can but as of the moment we must assume that June 1 is the final date.
Like you we are very disappointed at this development. It is completely out of the control of XXXX and XXXX and may have been brought about by political pressure in an election year.
We will keep you informed of any developments.
Edited to say that I'm due to fly out tomorrow!!!
