Cathay pilot 'sacked for Top Gun stunt'
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Just wondering..... at the time of the fly past did cathay own all of the aircraft. Somebody once told me that the final airframe and engine purchases are completed after departure in International waters.
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Also just wondering- what flight specs or limitations do the insurers put on non-scheduled operations? I'm simply asking, not commenting, so I don't want anyone trying to detonate me , thanks.
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Here is a small video of the fly-by... ( looks more like created with multiple photos in a row though....)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7hpV...d.php?p=141288
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7hpV...d.php?p=141288
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pasoundman...your tone suggest indignation and intolerance that an Asian like Akali dare bring up the Airbus prangs to light again. And ONLY a SINGLE A320 prang?
If my memory serves me right, there was a 1998 A320 prang at Basel Mulhouse and another at Habsheim. There was also a A330 crash by the Airbus test flight. In UK you should know better!!!!!!!
If my memory serves me right, there was a 1998 A320 prang at Basel Mulhouse and another at Habsheim. There was also a A330 crash by the Airbus test flight. In UK you should know better!!!!!!!
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Dreamland,
it was reported that the tower gave permission
it was reported that the tower gave permission
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Ali and Akali; it's hard to win argument over here. You don't have the numbers who care to do the right thing.
As far as I remember, there was one A320 prang during airshow flypast at Habsheim in 1988 and an A330 prang during a test flight just after an engine cut after takeoff. The other A320 prang was at Strasborg but it wasn't a flypast.
As far as I remember, there was one A320 prang during airshow flypast at Habsheim in 1988 and an A330 prang during a test flight just after an engine cut after takeoff. The other A320 prang was at Strasborg but it wasn't a flypast.
Last edited by taufupok; 26th Feb 2008 at 00:56.
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I'm afraid getting permission by the tower has nothing to do with breaking FAR's, if he exceeded a speed limit or operated the low approach below 500 AGL, he could face certificate action. Most professional pilots understand this.
1 - Never read anywhere that he exceeded a speed limit?
2 - Also, never heard of a low approach limit of 500ft AGL, unless something else is on the runway (German rules, I guess they are same or similar elsewhere). Where did you take that figure from?
Regards,
Robert
91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
(d) Helicopters. Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface. In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the Administrator.
OK, Dreamland --- I concede, perhaps para(c) but I would argue that within airport boundaries over the runway with ATC authorization are not a place you'd expect a Vessel and that area
IS pretty sparsely populated
I do now wonder what the Administrator thinks?
PA
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
(d) Helicopters. Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface. In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the Administrator.
OK, Dreamland --- I concede, perhaps para(c) but I would argue that within airport boundaries over the runway with ATC authorization are not a place you'd expect a Vessel and that area
IS pretty sparsely populated
I do now wonder what the Administrator thinks?
PA
Last edited by Pugilistic Animus; 25th Feb 2008 at 23:53. Reason: spelling
Quote from Dreamland:
I'm afraid getting permission by the tower has nothing to do with breaking FAR's, if he exceeded a speed limit or operated the low approach below 500 AGL, he could face certificate action. Most professional pilots understand this.
[Unquote]
Haven't been follwing this thread till tonight, and have no opinion (yet) on whether the pilot should have been sacked. But what Dreamland says in relation to approach below 500ft being illegal makes no sense. How could base training ever be conducted if, even with ATC permission, aircraft were forbidden from practising low approaches and go-arounds? Cannot comment on FARs with passengers on board - is that what you are getting at?
Quote from Ali Sadikin:
If my memory serves me right, there was a 1998 A320 prang at Basel Mulhouse and another at Habsheim. There was also a A330 crash by the Airbus test flight. In UK you should know better!!!!!!!
[Unquote]
Wrong. There was only one silly stunt leading to an accident on an A320. The aircraft took off from Basel-Mulhouse on a scheduled passenger flight. There was an airshow going on at nearby-Habsheim (a small airstrip, too small for A320). The captain decided to do a low-slow fly-by, ran out of energy, and pancaked into a forest.
The A330 accident was on a training flight at Toulouse-Blagnac, exploring the effects of an engine failure during an auto-coupled go-around. This is the sort of manoeuvre that pilots have to practise, unfortunately. The training captain was also an Airbus test pilot, and a very careful operator. Irrelevant to this topic.
I'm afraid getting permission by the tower has nothing to do with breaking FAR's, if he exceeded a speed limit or operated the low approach below 500 AGL, he could face certificate action. Most professional pilots understand this.
[Unquote]
Haven't been follwing this thread till tonight, and have no opinion (yet) on whether the pilot should have been sacked. But what Dreamland says in relation to approach below 500ft being illegal makes no sense. How could base training ever be conducted if, even with ATC permission, aircraft were forbidden from practising low approaches and go-arounds? Cannot comment on FARs with passengers on board - is that what you are getting at?
Quote from Ali Sadikin:
If my memory serves me right, there was a 1998 A320 prang at Basel Mulhouse and another at Habsheim. There was also a A330 crash by the Airbus test flight. In UK you should know better!!!!!!!
[Unquote]
Wrong. There was only one silly stunt leading to an accident on an A320. The aircraft took off from Basel-Mulhouse on a scheduled passenger flight. There was an airshow going on at nearby-Habsheim (a small airstrip, too small for A320). The captain decided to do a low-slow fly-by, ran out of energy, and pancaked into a forest.
The A330 accident was on a training flight at Toulouse-Blagnac, exploring the effects of an engine failure during an auto-coupled go-around. This is the sort of manoeuvre that pilots have to practise, unfortunately. The training captain was also an Airbus test pilot, and a very careful operator. Irrelevant to this topic.
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Originally Posted by Ali Sadikin
If my memory serves me right, there was a 1998 A320 prang at Basel Mulhouse and another at Habsheim. There was also a A330 crash by the Airbus test flight. In UK you should know better!!!!!!!
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The 707 roll
Sorry chaps but going back in time, the 707 rolled by Tex was the original, if you are interested take a look at this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ546BEps-M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ546BEps-M
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Role Model...?
As a pilot at completely the other end of the aviation spectrum to "Air God" IW...can I ask as a PPL holder currently undertaking my CPL studies...
Is he, and more to the point, this kind of flying, a good role model for someone like me???
Im off now...back to dream of the day that I may reach the upper echelons of this "nanny state industry" when I too can view the rules, regulations and LAWS as merely suggestions.
Is he, and more to the point, this kind of flying, a good role model for someone like me???
Im off now...back to dream of the day that I may reach the upper echelons of this "nanny state industry" when I too can view the rules, regulations and LAWS as merely suggestions.
StanSayz,
I can't answer such a personal question for you, but enjoy the learning process,and don't let anyone scare you, if you want to play bit get the instruction and have fun----
----- allowing yourself some occasional enjoyment..actually prevents untoward temptations in this sterile world called modern aviation---and ---
PULL!..PULL..PULL!
PA
but, don't break the law your government can clip your wings
"What's Legal isn't always Safe whats Safe isn't always Legal"
I can't answer such a personal question for you, but enjoy the learning process,and don't let anyone scare you, if you want to play bit get the instruction and have fun----
----- allowing yourself some occasional enjoyment..actually prevents untoward temptations in this sterile world called modern aviation---and ---
PULL!..PULL..PULL!
PA
but, don't break the law your government can clip your wings
"What's Legal isn't always Safe whats Safe isn't always Legal"
The 'Gimli glider" was recently flown to the desert for retirement.
This is from the departure from YUL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MHy6yy3Z00
There are also some very nice still shots from the flypast.
On board for the flight were the Captain and F/O from the original event into Gimli.
From comments posted by the Captain of the flight it seems that AC were quite forthcoming with help on some of the aspects of the trip.
From the sound of things with this Cathay incident it seems a shame that the event was not subject to a bit more communication with those who are now calling the shots.
This is from the departure from YUL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MHy6yy3Z00
There are also some very nice still shots from the flypast.
On board for the flight were the Captain and F/O from the original event into Gimli.
From comments posted by the Captain of the flight it seems that AC were quite forthcoming with help on some of the aspects of the trip.
From the sound of things with this Cathay incident it seems a shame that the event was not subject to a bit more communication with those who are now calling the shots.
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take care...
I'm not a moderator, and not directly concerned... but I was yesterday flying in Singapore and in the local Newspaper, there is a full page, with pictures of this event, but , more tricky, some replies from this thread were added on the article and make the journalist talk about the safety and the way the pilots consider their job....because some of them appreciate that kind of low pass...
A lot of people, not directly concerned in the "flying things", seems to know Pprune...then I think we have to be careful when writting on it, just to keep this forum as interesting as it is, as free as it is...
A lot of people, not directly concerned in the "flying things", seems to know Pprune...then I think we have to be careful when writting on it, just to keep this forum as interesting as it is, as free as it is...
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If my memory ser......
Apologies guys, looks like memory did not serve me well! It was a A320 flight from Mulhouse with a flypast at Habsheim in 1988. I mistook the Strasborg accident to be a flypast; likewise there was one in Bangalore, again a revenue flight. In the A330 prang it was not a flypast but the lesson here is that despite all the preparation, there is a big chance of a screw up. So an unplanned flypast ( albeit IW must have planned it in his head or in the sim...now who had authorised his use of the sim for such a stunt? Another unauthorised event? ) without the necessary forethought on how it could have affected others could have unforseen results. The A320 prang in Habsheim was a testosterone driven ego trip, so was this recent CX one albeit it ended with high fives and champagne.