BA Pilot Ballot results

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Because they can't work here

Why not? Is there some artificial protectionism going on here? Coo!- some workers are lucky, aren't they. (Well, for as long as it lasts, until they have to compete internationally on a level playing field like the rest of us.)

[TheKabaka]

So what exactly is specially magic about BA pilots that their employment and Ts&Cs should be protected? - the rest of the world's workforce hasn't had that luxury for decades.

This is not about BA pilots terms and conditions, even WW says he has no wish to reduce mainline pay (and after a 1st 3 quaters profit of £700m and 10% operating profit being in sight why would he). This is about opportunities for BA pilots and yet to be hired OS pilots.

If this goes ahead with no change to scope an internal market for BA work will develop and mainline will lose routes/jobs/aircraft. We just want to participate in the growth possible in OS, BALPA have offered to have a new contract for OS pilots written by BA. In short THIS IS NOT ABOUT MONEY FOR MAINLINE PILOTS.

[hellsbrink]

All I can say is that if BA THINK this "Open Skies" idea is a good one then I will happily back the pilots when the aircraft are grounded. Given the chance, I would be at the brazier with y'all.

(And that comes from an SLF who has the utmost respect for you guys driving these things)

[mrsofty]

I think there is plenty of competition from Indian airlines and we hold our own pretty well!!
And they struggle to hire as many European Pilots as they can.

[ReallyAnnoyed]

My utmost respect and backing from me to you BA guys. It is good to see that some pilot bodies still have a strong will If you fail, the rest of us are all going to wear harps in different colours

[petermcleland]

I would just like to appeal for a little calm here

I'm confident that what will happen is a small compromise from each side and the strike threat will vanish. Everyone will be moderately happy.

[Ex Cargo Clown]

Interesting to see the gnashing of teeth by so many low-number pax posters on this thread.

One could be dreadfully cynical and suggest that BA mis-management maybe attempting to drive a propaganda war against those oh-so terrible pilots.

No, they'd never resort to dirty tricks like that would they........

[900]

Scope for CityFlyer

Tandem,
No issue?
I undersatnd that Sch K takes CityFlyer pilots into BA seniority List sometime in 2010 if they increase the lease on the RJs.
Who is telling the whole truth based on full knowledge here?
Listen to all sides

[900]

M.Mouse

Arrant nonsense?
Help me then with the facts please?
I'm truly interested. Hopefully, so will other readers.
Thanks

[pacamack]

BA have offered BA Pilots secondment into OpenSkies on OS T&Cs but with their seniority, pensions and other BA benefits protected.

The management don't want a common seniority list across mainline and OS because they don't want to operate a seniority based system in OS, they want a meritocratic system.

Surely, there are no more compromises or negotiations to be made? How does this make the BA management, incompetent, belligerent, pig-headed etc..? How does this make the BA management solely responsible for the BALPA strike action?

[Vino Collapso]

Interesting to see the gnashing of teeth by so many low-number pax posters on this thread.

One could be dreadfully cynical and suggest that BA mis-management maybe attempting to drive a propaganda war against those oh-so terrible pilots.

No, they'd never resort to dirty tricks like that would they........

I have nothing whatsoever to do with BA management. The reason there is a low number of postings from pax is that this is not a pax forum and the vast majority of the worlds population is blissfully unaware of PPrune existence.

If someone was to paste a link to this discussion to a place where Joe Public hangs out you would get a pretty nasty response.

I had hoped that BA pilots had moved on from the days of Hamble trained 'hamsters' and the thought that they were above the rest of the flying world.

Looks like I am wrong. Pity......

How do you know if a BA pilot is in the bar? Don't worry he willl soon tell you!

I hate that old joke but I see it is still correct even today.

regards
Vino

(34 years in the aviation business and have got the T shirt)

[Hot Wings]

Good joke but I prefer the one that goes....

How do you know if there's a BA manager in the bar?

He'll be there at 2.30pm on a Monday afternoon, sitting on his own with a laptop and drinking a decaf latte.

[Dockjock]

Pilots can not just "quit" if they don't like something. Unless some kind of global rejig (or abandonment) of the seniority-based system occurs, BA pilots, and all airline pilots worldwide are affected by this end-run around BALPA's scope. My union has pledged support and while I hope it is not needed, we will be there to protect the profession if required. This is not just a BA problem- they just happen to be the first ones to stand up against it. Unlike QANTAS/Jetstar.

[blimey]

Just another timely reminder that this is a Professional Pilots' Rumour Network. So can all you disaffected passengers kindly poke off into the ether and let the pros get on with their internecine bitching and moaning.

Good luck and well done to the BALPA boys .

Thankyou and goodnight.

[Hand Solo]

Originally Posted by pacamack

How does this make the BA management, incompetent, belligerent, pig-headed etc..? How does this make the BA management solely responsible for the BALPA strike action?

How about stonewalling BALPA for 6+ months when they wanted to talk about OS? How about refusing to negotiate on anything whatsoever to do with OS for the two months that they were actually willing to speak about it? How about refusing point blank to allow any BALPA rep to see the OS business plan, then on the eve of the strike ballot result deciding that, actually, any BA pilot can see it if they want it?

I'd say those made BA management incompetent, belligerent and pig-headed.

Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat

Why not? Is there some artificial protectionism going on here? Coo!- some workers are lucky, aren't they. (Well, for as long as it lasts, until they have to compete internationally on a level playing field like the rest of us.)

Congrats Gertrude, you win the prize for most moronic comment of the day. As it's clearly escaped your notice Indian citizens generally don't have the right to live and work in the EU, just like citizens of any other non-EU nation and, yes, you too are protected by that. If you weren't those offshore Indian processing centres wouldn't be necesary as the Indians would be in the UK, competing for your job here. If you're going to come out with downright stupid statements like that maybe you should restrict yourself to the PPL forum.

[sidtheesexist]

Hand - cannot believe you've dignified the tosh that packamak spouts by responding.......

To CC colleagues and members of the public posting messages of support - many thanks. We will win this dispute - we are many. Any BA managers masquerading here/monitoring this thread - please be under no illusion as to the resolve and determination of the overwhelming majority of the BA pilots.

Incompetent management has brought about this impasse and is LARGELY responsible for the daily operational shambles at LHR that the crew and pax alike have to endure..........

Willie's so obsessed with cutting costs to achieve the panacea of a 10% operating margin that daily, departments are so poorly resourced/managed that they can't perform their functions effectively. Result - an operational shambles that makes the Keystone Cops look the epitome of professional competence.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

If you weren't those offshore Indian processing centres wouldn't be necesary as the Indians would be in the UK, competing for your job here.

They are and they do.

There are things called "work permits".

In most of industry these are issued to foreigners when there is seen to be a "shortage" of local workers.

"Shortage" is defined by the employers as "we have to pay these local b*gg*rs too much, so that means there is a shortage, so we must import some foreign workers so as to get pay levels back down to something which enables us to compete with the Chinese".

Government says to business "yes, good point, here are the work permits".

Does this general rule somehow not apply to BA pilots? If it doesn't then, as I said, aren't they lucky, for the time being.

[cockney steve]

pilots need to plan strategy

Back at #56, I suggested that pilots(well,all employees) could buy shares in BA.

Human Factor was the only reply(63) pointing out that the MANAGEMENT has preferential share -purchase options.

this strikes me as a real dog-in -a -manger attitude1...So, you're in exactly the same position as any other private investor.I'd suggest that 3,000 pilots could very rapidly accumulate a huge block of BA shares if they only put ,say 5% of their net income into the "pot"

BA is making huge profits...YOU have shares, YOU draw dividends, Dividends buy MORE shares. QED .

BUT collectively, YOU have the ability to vote at shareholder meetings and affect the running of the company.....I'm quite amazed this "back-door" approach hasn't been exploited.

Others(Sulac66,post 110) also suggest that empowerment is a way forward.

VOTING WITH YOUR FEET. Is there gross overcapacity in the airline industry?
No?....then all yo pilots that leave, will find jobs with the other carriers who take-on the pax that BA no longer has staffing capability to move.
BA then has a choice, attract good staff / sell the surplus aircraft / go bust.
Reading the early posts, over 2,000 pilots are unhappy...how many pax journeys do they represent?-I'd suggest ,enough to cause a major political row as well as an upset in the financial markets.

Last time I flew BA was a Viscount to Benbecula! for my then-employer. (I'm just an impoverished prole)
Without the LoCo's, I'd have never been abroad ..so, Ive no dog in this fight, but that doesn't mean that I agree with powerful management totally lacking in morality!

Blimey, post 171. I take your comments as ill-construed....this is STILL a PUBLIC arena , the admin appear to do an excellent job of weeding dross and trolls, therefore, i'd respectfully suggest that you consider reading the posts from us "outsiders"and learning something useful from them.

The comments regarding Leyland, Coal,Etc. were, IMHO, on the mark.
Others offered a better, cheaper, more reliable product..the clever employees left and got positions with the well-managed "foreigners"....the rest stayed and grumbled and took industrial action as their industry went down the crapper!
History repeats. Sometimes, lessons ARE learned . BA is out of sync with 21st. century travel, imo.(the proportion who travel "cattle" should be some sort of pointer to that.

Protect your position, but be aware that this is ,primarily a BUSINESS and i've attempted to help you see it from that perspective.

[Mister Geezer]

Despite the many quibbles that we have seen from pilots who are not employed by BA, I think I am right in saying that the majority of non BA pilots are 100% behind your bid for a transparent and fair integration of OS into the BA family!

Whilst no one ever wants to actually go on strike - if it does come to that then I wish the BA brethren a swift and successful conclusion to the issues that need to be resolved.

[two green one prayer]

I'm afraid that Cockney Steve's suggestion that BA pilots should buy shares in the company is a bad idea unless each pilot only buys a few in order to make a fuss at the annual meeting. That could work. BA relies heavily on image and spends a lot maintaining it. The mere threat of a large group of pilots asking awkward questions at the annual meeting might make the directors think twice, especially if the press was tipped off in advance.
As a straightforward pension enhancing investment it would be a dead loss on any reasonable overview of the future world economy. It is also a very bad idea to invest in the business that pays your wages. If the business gets into difficulty your investment and your job disappear down the drain together.
This does not apply to the management's share options because these are usually sold at well below market price and the management either knows about, or hears gossip about coming trouble before anyone else.

THIS IS NOT INVESTMENT ADVICE. I AM NOT QUALIFIED TO GIVE INVESTMENT ADVICE.

If you lose money by not buying BA shares please do not drop blue ice on my house.