BA Pilot Ballot results
Join Date: May 2004
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M.Mouse,
Very well put and I totally agree with your views.I also add I fully support my flight crew colleagues in their battle ahead with our 'incompetent leaders.
Just over a year ago I posted a similar post to your own with the reasons why we the cabin crew were striking and fed up of being pushed around by bullying management and sc*ewed contiually.
I like yourself am not a militant,just someone who stands up for what they feel right.
My postings along with others from cabin crew got slated by our pilots and we were accused of all sorts,even our 'supposed' over paid wages posted on this site!!.
In return this year for what I know is hugh support for you our flight crew colleagues from the cabin crew,is a little moral support come our time of need.
We have two things in common.
1/ We get people from A 2 B as safely as possible.
2/ We are both managed by a group of incompetent,greedy bunch of idiots.
I close by wishing all the BA pilots the very best of luck in the days and weeks ahead.
This could signal the thin end of the wedge for many in our industry.
Regards,
WTDWL (Head of constant apologies in the Cabin).....but not overpaid!!
Very well put and I totally agree with your views.I also add I fully support my flight crew colleagues in their battle ahead with our 'incompetent leaders.
Just over a year ago I posted a similar post to your own with the reasons why we the cabin crew were striking and fed up of being pushed around by bullying management and sc*ewed contiually.
I like yourself am not a militant,just someone who stands up for what they feel right.
My postings along with others from cabin crew got slated by our pilots and we were accused of all sorts,even our 'supposed' over paid wages posted on this site!!.
In return this year for what I know is hugh support for you our flight crew colleagues from the cabin crew,is a little moral support come our time of need.
We have two things in common.
1/ We get people from A 2 B as safely as possible.
2/ We are both managed by a group of incompetent,greedy bunch of idiots.
I close by wishing all the BA pilots the very best of luck in the days and weeks ahead.
This could signal the thin end of the wedge for many in our industry.
Regards,
WTDWL (Head of constant apologies in the Cabin).....but not overpaid!!
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Chris 777.
Further to what has been said so well by M. Mouse and other posters I think, if you look, that doctors and not permitted to strike.
Part of their contract states that they do not have the strike option open to them under any circumstances. Not that is even remotely relevant in this case, as the contract GP's negotiated was incredible poorly thought through by the government and no GP in his/her right mind would have have voted against it...and their 'union' suggested acceptance, in the same way BALPA has suggested to us to stand our ground in this issue now or see our future careers undermined and eventually be handed to pilots outwith the BA family. With well presented clear arguments from both BA and BALPA over this issue we as a pilot group have decided who's version of potential future events we trust.
I've not been in BA long but this really is a no brainer. In even my short time the management has shown that their word cannot be trusted, and their entire focus is on cost cutting, we see ourselves as the next long term target with this current Openskies set up.
All we are asking for is that the promises the management are making to us personally (Willie, and his blood written assurances) be put into our working agreements and set in stone for his eventual replacement to work around rather than wade through. Nothing more.
It is hugely disappointing that we are man managed so poorly that it has come to this, and that a resolution could not be negotiated prior to the ballot, but at what stage do you make your stand just to hold the ground you have as you see the chance of it being eroded in the future?
We as pilots truly hope this does not come to strike, but the collective decision is clear, the repercussions to our passengers all too clear also. For them this may be the pain of inconvenience, I truly hope they understand that for us this is the last and only option left to me to try to protect my career.
Further to what has been said so well by M. Mouse and other posters I think, if you look, that doctors and not permitted to strike.
Part of their contract states that they do not have the strike option open to them under any circumstances. Not that is even remotely relevant in this case, as the contract GP's negotiated was incredible poorly thought through by the government and no GP in his/her right mind would have have voted against it...and their 'union' suggested acceptance, in the same way BALPA has suggested to us to stand our ground in this issue now or see our future careers undermined and eventually be handed to pilots outwith the BA family. With well presented clear arguments from both BA and BALPA over this issue we as a pilot group have decided who's version of potential future events we trust.
I've not been in BA long but this really is a no brainer. In even my short time the management has shown that their word cannot be trusted, and their entire focus is on cost cutting, we see ourselves as the next long term target with this current Openskies set up.
All we are asking for is that the promises the management are making to us personally (Willie, and his blood written assurances) be put into our working agreements and set in stone for his eventual replacement to work around rather than wade through. Nothing more.
It is hugely disappointing that we are man managed so poorly that it has come to this, and that a resolution could not be negotiated prior to the ballot, but at what stage do you make your stand just to hold the ground you have as you see the chance of it being eroded in the future?
We as pilots truly hope this does not come to strike, but the collective decision is clear, the repercussions to our passengers all too clear also. For them this may be the pain of inconvenience, I truly hope they understand that for us this is the last and only option left to me to try to protect my career.
FX Guru
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SLF here. Don't worry about Chris777, he's obviously union hater who obviously has no idea about what goes on in the real world nowadays.
He's obviously completely contemptuous of 'factory workers' as well. I wonder if he's one? Perhaps he should vent his spleen against the largely overpaid legal profession's closed shop.
FWIW, and I'm sure you don't give a toss either way, your 'professional status' is in no way impaired in my eyes!
But anyway, good luck to you all. I know that going on strike is the final option. I imagine most of you have got mortgages to pay, families to look after etc, but the fact that some cretins are jumping up and down saying how important you all are and therefore you mustn't go on strike proves your value.
The very best of British, and I hope your management comes to their senses.
He's obviously completely contemptuous of 'factory workers' as well. I wonder if he's one? Perhaps he should vent his spleen against the largely overpaid legal profession's closed shop.
FWIW, and I'm sure you don't give a toss either way, your 'professional status' is in no way impaired in my eyes!
But anyway, good luck to you all. I know that going on strike is the final option. I imagine most of you have got mortgages to pay, families to look after etc, but the fact that some cretins are jumping up and down saying how important you all are and therefore you mustn't go on strike proves your value.
The very best of British, and I hope your management comes to their senses.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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PartickThistleNil
M.Mouse
Quote:
I am not complaining that I am badly paid, I am just asking that we have a common seniority list of pilots employed by BA, flying BA aeroplanes, marketed with BA money and maintained by BA engineering and trained to common BA standards.
Does Cityflyer not fall into this category? Why did BALPA not insist that they were on the seniority list?
Quote:
I am not complaining that I am badly paid, I am just asking that we have a common seniority list of pilots employed by BA, flying BA aeroplanes, marketed with BA money and maintained by BA engineering and trained to common BA standards.
Does Cityflyer not fall into this category? Why did BALPA not insist that they were on the seniority list?
Controversial, moi?
Does Cityflyer not fall into this category? Why did BALPA not insist that they were on the seniority list?
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OS Secondments
Fork Handles says that the secondments were offered by BA and not requested by BALPA. Not true. Originally BA did not want any link between mainline and OS. BALPA sought secondments, BA conceded in order to avoid a dispute!! BA is limiting secondments to 50% of command vacancies (+ a handful of FO vacancies) BALPA want more for mainline and understand exactly at what costto the promotion opportunities for FO DEPS into OS. That's why they expect BA to pay the bill by ensuring OS DEPS get a seniority number. Good old fashioned protectionism at play here by a powerful industrial group and BALPA officials meekly support them. Dressed up as off-shoring and an attack on T&Cs some way into the future but still nest feathering by BACC for their pilots at the expense of their brothers elsewhere.
And as WW says there will be no seniority number and you go on strike - then what?
And as WW says there will be no seniority number and you go on strike - then what?
Controversial, moi?
.....but still nest feathering by BACC for their pilots at the expense of their brothers elsewhere.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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BA is limiting secondments to 50% of command vacancies (+ a handful of FO vacancies)...
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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900,
Go away and read the 37 page thread on the background to the strike ballot HERE. Specifically, the bits about where this tactic has been attempted with varying degrees of success in a number of major airlines around the world.
When you've read it, you can come back.
Go away and read the 37 page thread on the background to the strike ballot HERE. Specifically, the bits about where this tactic has been attempted with varying degrees of success in a number of major airlines around the world.
When you've read it, you can come back.
Join Date: Sep 2005
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So you're all going on strike in case the company upsets you in the future.
If we don't do anything now, we won't be in a position in the future to do anything about it as they'll have control of another airline which could break a strike.
You're long suffering customers might upset you earlier, who in their right mind would book with BA.
Join Date: Jun 2003
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So, BA pilots haven't been on strike for 28 years!
But CC have. So have baggage handlers at LHR.
As far as your average punter (passenger/pay master) is concerned, it is all the same thing. They don't distinguish. And that doesn't take into consideration baggage software problems, etc. etc.
If I were to book a flight now I would avoid BA and LHR like the plague.
As I have said before, if you feel so strongly about this, go on strike, and stay out. But that would hurt you then. 2 days off here and there is not such a hardship.
But CC have. So have baggage handlers at LHR.
As far as your average punter (passenger/pay master) is concerned, it is all the same thing. They don't distinguish. And that doesn't take into consideration baggage software problems, etc. etc.
If I were to book a flight now I would avoid BA and LHR like the plague.
As I have said before, if you feel so strongly about this, go on strike, and stay out. But that would hurt you then. 2 days off here and there is not such a hardship.
Join Date: Oct 2005
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maybe simplistic but true.
Look at LGW from an outsider they have nothing I want let alone LHR crew want so why fight for something that doesn't help them? same principle.
Very simplistic argument to say what I said about long haul, but if it doesn't benefit LHR crew, then no one inside the that little bubble cares what happens.. as it stands LHR pilots want a slice of the action(quicker promotion etc...) so now they are fighting...
Look at LGW from an outsider they have nothing I want let alone LHR crew want so why fight for something that doesn't help them? same principle.
Very simplistic argument to say what I said about long haul, but if it doesn't benefit LHR crew, then no one inside the that little bubble cares what happens.. as it stands LHR pilots want a slice of the action(quicker promotion etc...) so now they are fighting...
Join Date: May 2004
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tb10er,
Please read this thread fully and just for once in your life try and see it from someone elses side.
I agree if your travel plans are affected that is not good.If the next 25-30 years of a pilots life are affected that is even worst.
Like you thay have the same commitments,family,house,car.
Again as you have reminded them YOU pay our wages.Have a word with our excuse of a management team(YOU PAY THEIR WAGES TOO)!!,for it is they who are to blame for the industrial problems at BA not the employees.
If you really have so much angry to vent,why don't you have a go at your power provider who is pis*ing you off 365 days a year by increasing your fuel bills up 30%+!!.
WTDWL.
Please read this thread fully and just for once in your life try and see it from someone elses side.
I agree if your travel plans are affected that is not good.If the next 25-30 years of a pilots life are affected that is even worst.
Like you thay have the same commitments,family,house,car.
Again as you have reminded them YOU pay our wages.Have a word with our excuse of a management team(YOU PAY THEIR WAGES TOO)!!,for it is they who are to blame for the industrial problems at BA not the employees.
If you really have so much angry to vent,why don't you have a go at your power provider who is pis*ing you off 365 days a year by increasing your fuel bills up 30%+!!.
WTDWL.
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Some food for thought - although it may only be applicable to a small portion of the BA pilot body. The act of withdrawing your services is all that you have available as a weapon against the beancounters. This can take three forms;
1. Individual Action. Typified by the 'I am an Army of One' philosophy. Ultimately futile but may be curiously satisfying to some and certainly a crowd-pleaser.
2. Union Action. As being discussed. Honorable, tried and true and predictable.
3. Empowerment.
I would suggest that the first two options should not be attempted without the third being firmly established.
Empowerment. You can call it whatever you like but it comes down to having real, viable, no 5hit options which you can take up if your other tactics fail. To be going on strike with a mortgage, kids at school, sailing addiction etc. and nothing else is foolhardy in the current world climate. The managers of the world have had decades of dealing with this dynamic and are ready to tackle it (with government support). Rather than manning the picket lines you should be flooding the in-trays of every major airline with your CVs (after all, you are gold in the global professional pilot stakes - no one can argue with that) - BUT - you have to have the intention of taking the job. That's the catch - you've got to be willing to walk. An example;
Qantas was poised to go medieval with its pilot body using the Workchoices legislation of the former government. Even without that coming to pass, a large portion of the pilot body started looking around in case the worst happened. Now, a Qantas job used to be a job for life, but, since people started to look around at what was available, some people, without any pressure, decided to walk. I know that a lot of Qantas people, newly stimulated, are weighing their options. Can I head back to the RAAF on a sweet deal? Go Emirates? Take promotion early with VirginBlue? A stint at Korean before retiring etc. Take a look at the Qantaslink regional thread for a taste of the mood.
This of course is not for everyone - after all it means turning your back on an icon - however this is not what the beancounters want. Thay want you to stay on, in parallel with the cheap option.
Look around, attend roadshows, send in CVs, post employment conditions online, regain your qualifications in other areas. If nothing else it may relieve a bit of bunker mentality and, who knows, you may meet your future second wife.
But, above all, EMPOWER yourself. Feels good.
1. Individual Action. Typified by the 'I am an Army of One' philosophy. Ultimately futile but may be curiously satisfying to some and certainly a crowd-pleaser.
2. Union Action. As being discussed. Honorable, tried and true and predictable.
3. Empowerment.
I would suggest that the first two options should not be attempted without the third being firmly established.
Empowerment. You can call it whatever you like but it comes down to having real, viable, no 5hit options which you can take up if your other tactics fail. To be going on strike with a mortgage, kids at school, sailing addiction etc. and nothing else is foolhardy in the current world climate. The managers of the world have had decades of dealing with this dynamic and are ready to tackle it (with government support). Rather than manning the picket lines you should be flooding the in-trays of every major airline with your CVs (after all, you are gold in the global professional pilot stakes - no one can argue with that) - BUT - you have to have the intention of taking the job. That's the catch - you've got to be willing to walk. An example;
Qantas was poised to go medieval with its pilot body using the Workchoices legislation of the former government. Even without that coming to pass, a large portion of the pilot body started looking around in case the worst happened. Now, a Qantas job used to be a job for life, but, since people started to look around at what was available, some people, without any pressure, decided to walk. I know that a lot of Qantas people, newly stimulated, are weighing their options. Can I head back to the RAAF on a sweet deal? Go Emirates? Take promotion early with VirginBlue? A stint at Korean before retiring etc. Take a look at the Qantaslink regional thread for a taste of the mood.
This of course is not for everyone - after all it means turning your back on an icon - however this is not what the beancounters want. Thay want you to stay on, in parallel with the cheap option.
Look around, attend roadshows, send in CVs, post employment conditions online, regain your qualifications in other areas. If nothing else it may relieve a bit of bunker mentality and, who knows, you may meet your future second wife.
But, above all, EMPOWER yourself. Feels good.
Join Date: May 2004
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206,
Total rubbish.Full stop.
At present,I for one am fighting for my colleagues at LGW SFG.
Golden runways (LHR)finished about 20 years ago.The year is 2008 and BA management don't like any of us.
WTDWL.
Total rubbish.Full stop.
At present,I for one am fighting for my colleagues at LGW SFG.
Golden runways (LHR)finished about 20 years ago.The year is 2008 and BA management don't like any of us.
WTDWL.