CRJ crash in Yerevan
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CRJ crash in Yerevan
Russian media reports Belavia CRJ-100 crashed on takeoff from Yerevan. 18 pax, 3 crew.
Last edited by maxho; 14th Feb 2008 at 03:13.
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All survived
According to Russian media at 4:15am local time CRJ-100M flight number B2-1834 departed runway on takeoff, wingtip contacted surface, the aircraft tumbled, broke into two parts and caught fire. Thanks to prompt response of emergency services there were no fatalities. 4 people hospitalized, others threated at the scene.
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YEREVAN INTL - UDYZ - EVN
MET UDYZ 140800Z 00000MPS 3500 -SN BR BKN020 M02/M05 Q1018 09190060 NOSIG=
MET UDYZ 140730Z 19001MPS 3500 -SN BR BKN016 M03/M05 Q1018 09190060 NOSIG=
MET UDYZ 140700Z 00000MPS 3500 -SN BR BKN016 M03/M05 Q1018 09010070 NOSIG=
TAF UDYZ 140750Z 140918 VRB02MPS 3500 BR SCT015 SCT100 TEMPO 0918 1000 SN OVC008=
TAF UDYZ 140450Z 140606 VRB02MPS 2000 BR SCT010 BKN100 TEMPO 0618 23006MPS 0600 SN OVC004 BECMG 1415 1000 BR TEMPO 1806 0200
SN FZFG VV001=
Oh Oh
I really hope this is not the old "we didn't think we needed de-icing" CRJ trick again !
How many have there been already ?
MET UDYZ 140800Z 00000MPS 3500 -SN BR BKN020 M02/M05 Q1018 09190060 NOSIG=
MET UDYZ 140730Z 19001MPS 3500 -SN BR BKN016 M03/M05 Q1018 09190060 NOSIG=
MET UDYZ 140700Z 00000MPS 3500 -SN BR BKN016 M03/M05 Q1018 09010070 NOSIG=
TAF UDYZ 140750Z 140918 VRB02MPS 3500 BR SCT015 SCT100 TEMPO 0918 1000 SN OVC008=
TAF UDYZ 140450Z 140606 VRB02MPS 2000 BR SCT010 BKN100 TEMPO 0618 23006MPS 0600 SN OVC004 BECMG 1415 1000 BR TEMPO 1806 0200
SN FZFG VV001=
Oh Oh
I really hope this is not the old "we didn't think we needed de-icing" CRJ trick again !
How many have there been already ?
Last edited by AltFlaps; 14th Feb 2008 at 08:14. Reason: formatting
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That Met might let you to believe that Icing played a part again along with the description of how the plane impacted i.e wingtip first , but that would purely be speculation. At least its not a fatalities incident thankfully.
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First photo's in: http://drugoi.livejournal.com/2520161.html
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So many plane crashes have been happening recently in the former Soviet Union involving western types.
If I am correct this was the second CRJ (the other being N168CK at Vnukovo)
Armavia A.320
S7 Airlines A.310
German Challlenger
German C.90
Ivolga Avia C-208
Jet 2000 Falcon 20
Evolga BAe 125
So sad
If I am correct this was the second CRJ (the other being N168CK at Vnukovo)
Armavia A.320
S7 Airlines A.310
German Challlenger
German C.90
Ivolga Avia C-208
Jet 2000 Falcon 20
Evolga BAe 125
So sad
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I'd hate (obviously) to jump to any conclusions as to what happened here ...
BUT, this is the third picture of a CRJ that I've seen on its back with its gear sticking up, and the previous 2 were both ice related on takeoff.
The CRJ has a SUPER critical wing, and is VERY prone to stalling issues with ice ...
Looking at the pics, I'm very glad (and very surprised) that they all got out !
BUT, this is the third picture of a CRJ that I've seen on its back with its gear sticking up, and the previous 2 were both ice related on takeoff.
The CRJ has a SUPER critical wing, and is VERY prone to stalling issues with ice ...
Looking at the pics, I'm very glad (and very surprised) that they all got out !
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Trash du Blanc
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BUT, this is the third picture of a CRJ that I've seen on its back with its gear sticking up, and the previous 2 were both ice related on takeoff.
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Belavia CRJ
Moscow CRJ
Yep, both similar. Lets wait for the report but being a pessimist they may as well photocopy the moscow version........ names to be changed to protect the innocent
Moscow CRJ
Yep, both similar. Lets wait for the report but being a pessimist they may as well photocopy the moscow version........ names to be changed to protect the innocent
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Whatever the precise cause of this incident, it is most impressive that in a take-off crash / inverted fuselage / devastating fire that everyone was still able to get out without major injury.
There must be something in Canadair's CAD/CAM after all..... just a pity it was set at 7/8 scale for the CRJ.
There must be something in Canadair's CAD/CAM after all..... just a pity it was set at 7/8 scale for the CRJ.
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3rd in a year
We are talking about 3 accidents within a year (Moscow-Vnukovo, Almaty and now Yerevan), all in de-icing/anti-icing weather conditions and all with aircraft type from the same series/type.
All turned over and burned out. The one in ALA would look the same if the aircraft would not hit a wall.
Let me state a few things from experience in this region, knowing all the airports and handling agents very well:
- training of the ground crews not accomplsihed or not complete (no aircraft procedures done)
- They have fluid and equipment manufactured in Europe and the USA, but not fully understand all features.
AND
- they are not understanding the difference between a TU-154 with a wing thick like a dozen of telephone books and a CRJ, with a maximum of two.
And one more item:
Not only the trainign of the ground crews, I have my problem to believe that all the flight crews had been properly trained.
All turned over and burned out. The one in ALA would look the same if the aircraft would not hit a wall.
Let me state a few things from experience in this region, knowing all the airports and handling agents very well:
- training of the ground crews not accomplsihed or not complete (no aircraft procedures done)
- They have fluid and equipment manufactured in Europe and the USA, but not fully understand all features.
AND
- they are not understanding the difference between a TU-154 with a wing thick like a dozen of telephone books and a CRJ, with a maximum of two.
And one more item:
Not only the trainign of the ground crews, I have my problem to believe that all the flight crews had been properly trained.
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I hate to say it guys, but the fact the airframes have been CRJ/Challenger tends towards smaller airlines, private charter and corporate work.
Case in point was the Birmingham UK Challenger crash about 5 years ago.
Skipper asked about deicing (heavy overnight hoar frost) ... when he got the price and queue time he decided he'd just go without !
On rotate, one wing stalled, the other continued to fly - cartwheel - fireball - 5 fatalities. I saw the pictures on the news - and I immediately recognised the burnt out frame of a CRJ/Challenger on its back with the gear sticking up ...
This appears to be becoming an all too 'common' problem with this airframe. Its a supercritical wing - if its not clean - don't fly !
Case in point was the Birmingham UK Challenger crash about 5 years ago.
Skipper asked about deicing (heavy overnight hoar frost) ... when he got the price and queue time he decided he'd just go without !
On rotate, one wing stalled, the other continued to fly - cartwheel - fireball - 5 fatalities. I saw the pictures on the news - and I immediately recognised the burnt out frame of a CRJ/Challenger on its back with the gear sticking up ...
This appears to be becoming an all too 'common' problem with this airframe. Its a supercritical wing - if its not clean - don't fly !
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- they are not understanding the difference between a TU-154 with a wing thick like a dozen of telephone books and a CRJ, with a maximum of two.
A Feb 14 2008 CRJ-100 in Armenia
A Dec 26 2007 CL-604 accident in Kazakhstan
A Feb 13 2007 CRJ-100 accident in Moscow
A Nov 21 2004 CRJ-200 accident in China
A Nov 28 2004 CL-601 accident in Colorado
A Jan 4 2002 CL-604 accident in Birmingham, UK
All take-off accidents, all lost control at or right after rotation, all flipped on their backs, all in winter conditions.
I think that Bombardier should emphasize the importance of taking off with a whistle-clean wing when flying this aircraft.
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There was a thread about this a while back, but it appears that there are some serious issues with “loss of corporate knowledge” that is being compounded by mismanagement by middle management.
Back in my FO days I flew with guys who had been around the block and one thing we learn was that in these type on conditions, with runway available, use an improved climb / V2+ / Overspeed technique.
Sure go the usual V1/VR… blah blah but brief the crew that you will leave it on the ground longer for more acceleration, hell if the tyres can take a heavy weight, no flap Vref +40 or more ….. STAY ON THE GROUND.
Once you are beyond V1, you are going anyway, but given runway available and inclement weather…… go faster, as SPEED IS LIFE.
Obviously you are not going to de-rate/flex, but how many corporate operators actually do? More relevant, why would you even bother in these conditions.
Far too many times now I see newbies coming in and at VR try and yank it off the ground….. guys its not that hard, pitch up and let it fly off the ground!!
Back in my FO days I flew with guys who had been around the block and one thing we learn was that in these type on conditions, with runway available, use an improved climb / V2+ / Overspeed technique.
Sure go the usual V1/VR… blah blah but brief the crew that you will leave it on the ground longer for more acceleration, hell if the tyres can take a heavy weight, no flap Vref +40 or more ….. STAY ON THE GROUND.
Once you are beyond V1, you are going anyway, but given runway available and inclement weather…… go faster, as SPEED IS LIFE.
Obviously you are not going to de-rate/flex, but how many corporate operators actually do? More relevant, why would you even bother in these conditions.
Far too many times now I see newbies coming in and at VR try and yank it off the ground….. guys its not that hard, pitch up and let it fly off the ground!!
