Air Canada co-pilot falls ill during flight
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I have a female cousin in her mid 30s, the mother of 3 children. Normally she is a quiet, polite, soft and gentle woman.
Feed her gluten (she's only fairly recently been diagnosed as a coeliac) and she swears like a harpy, sufficient to make a wharfie blush. She recognises the onset now but cannot stop the effect and segregates herself until the affects wear off. Food can d strange things to us too.
I hope the poor bugger gets better
Feed her gluten (she's only fairly recently been diagnosed as a coeliac) and she swears like a harpy, sufficient to make a wharfie blush. She recognises the onset now but cannot stop the effect and segregates herself until the affects wear off. Food can d strange things to us too.
I hope the poor bugger gets better
while it probably wasn't of the same intensity, do we all remember the egyptair crash?
The mental/emotional health of pilots (and ATCs) need to be properly managed. I hope this pilot's employer is supportive and permits him to fly again if he can.
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The Times said the Captain was required by standard procedures to wear an oxygen mask for the remainder of the flight becuase he was on his own - is this a normal SOP on longhaul ops because it is not a requirement in my company.
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The Times said the Captain was required by standard procedures to wear an oxygen mask for the remainder of the flight becuase he was on his own - is this a normal SOP on longhaul ops because it is not a requirement in my company
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O2 masks
"The Times said the Captain was required by standard procedures to wear an oxygen mask for the remainder of the flight becuase he was on his own - is this a normal SOP on longhaul ops because it is not a requirement in my company."
This is a very old rule that was changed years ago. I am sure the 767 Capt did not put on his mask. The statement in the paper came from another speculator. The only requirement to wear a mask when you are alone in the cockpit is when you are above FL410. Other than that, the mask has to be readily available which they are with quick doning masks in all airliners.
This is a very old rule that was changed years ago. I am sure the 767 Capt did not put on his mask. The statement in the paper came from another speculator. The only requirement to wear a mask when you are alone in the cockpit is when you are above FL410. Other than that, the mask has to be readily available which they are with quick doning masks in all airliners.
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This episode puts the knee-jerk reaction of the US Congress proposing to arm airline pilots with guns in a whole new light.....
http://www.tsa.gov/lawenforcement/programs/ffdo.shtm
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A couple of quibbles:
I'm sure most of you know that Air Canada has not been a state-owned airline for, oh, some 20 years or so.
You can pilot an airliner with Type 2 diabetes in Canada:
1) requiring oral medication only (no insulin): unrestricted provided control criteria are met, more frequent ECGs, stress ECG, etc.
2) insulin dependant, provided certain control criteria are met, more tests, etc as above, but license restricted to "as or with co-pilot".
Interestingly an ATP with a class 1 medical can fall into category 2) above, but a PPL with a class 3 is out for good if insulin-dependent.
Beech
hirley Mah, spokeswoman for the state-owned airline, did not return phone calls on the incident yesterday.
True hypoglycaemia is an infinitesimally rare diagnosis in anyone who is not already known to be a diabetic and diabetics don't hold pilot's licences. People who say they are 'feeling hypo' generally aren't. They are generally just annoyed and irritable because they are hungry.
1) requiring oral medication only (no insulin): unrestricted provided control criteria are met, more frequent ECGs, stress ECG, etc.
2) insulin dependant, provided certain control criteria are met, more tests, etc as above, but license restricted to "as or with co-pilot".
Interestingly an ATP with a class 1 medical can fall into category 2) above, but a PPL with a class 3 is out for good if insulin-dependent.
Beech
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Faulty deployment of a 'Manchurian Candidate' type agent?
Since 9/11 it's been much put about in the media that movie screenplay writers are regularly brought together in think-tanks in order to dream up outlandish terrorist plot scenarios for our security experts to muse over and possibly be 'shaken up' by.
I'm not such a writer; actually I'm a medic, and though not of any psychiatric persuasion, I have had the usual basic training during my time in the military for recognising and dealing expeditiously with what was then called 'battle fatigue'.
In the 1962 film 'The Manchurian Candidate' a former Korean War POW is brainwashed by communists into becoming a political assassin. Yes, it was only a movie.
It's a far stretch to suppose that a contemporary terrorist cell could kidnap and 'turn' the sub-conscious mind of an otherwise stalwart and socially upstanding Canadian pilot but I can't quite leave such a notion completely alone in the bin marked 'wild supposition'.
Anyway, even if such a thing couldn't actually be achieved in real life(as has been widely debated), there's no saying it couldn't be attempted.
And the consequence of of such brainwashing following by a triggered instruction to commit an act of anti-social mass destruction would likely be a fairly florid and immediate mental breakdown of the type we have seen happen here. Might what has occurred be in reality a faulty weapon deployment?
I'm pretty certain that if such a thing was to go off 'ping' in my head whilst flying that I'd "want to talk to God and some such" pretty urgently too.
You can head me off as having a couple loose in the top pasture if you like; but I'd be much reassured to know that some sort of wise and sympathetic PsyOps/forensics team, with knowledge of the ins and outs of experimental hypnosis, were up there taking notes with the regular Co. Clare trick cyclist boys.
A bit of perspective:-Common things occur commonly, ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile and real estate has taken a record pounding recently.
I'm not such a writer; actually I'm a medic, and though not of any psychiatric persuasion, I have had the usual basic training during my time in the military for recognising and dealing expeditiously with what was then called 'battle fatigue'.
In the 1962 film 'The Manchurian Candidate' a former Korean War POW is brainwashed by communists into becoming a political assassin. Yes, it was only a movie.
It's a far stretch to suppose that a contemporary terrorist cell could kidnap and 'turn' the sub-conscious mind of an otherwise stalwart and socially upstanding Canadian pilot but I can't quite leave such a notion completely alone in the bin marked 'wild supposition'.
Anyway, even if such a thing couldn't actually be achieved in real life(as has been widely debated), there's no saying it couldn't be attempted.
And the consequence of of such brainwashing following by a triggered instruction to commit an act of anti-social mass destruction would likely be a fairly florid and immediate mental breakdown of the type we have seen happen here. Might what has occurred be in reality a faulty weapon deployment?
I'm pretty certain that if such a thing was to go off 'ping' in my head whilst flying that I'd "want to talk to God and some such" pretty urgently too.
You can head me off as having a couple loose in the top pasture if you like; but I'd be much reassured to know that some sort of wise and sympathetic PsyOps/forensics team, with knowledge of the ins and outs of experimental hypnosis, were up there taking notes with the regular Co. Clare trick cyclist boys.
A bit of perspective:-Common things occur commonly, ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile and real estate has taken a record pounding recently.
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'I think that illness amongst train and bus drivers are not reported because their vehicles are already on the ground. The train has automatic braking systems and the bus may hurt a few people if the driver loses conciousness - but as far as the media are concerned - not enough people'
Not enough people? Tube drivers earn more than alot of First Officers and carry hundreds of passengers....and yet we dont hear of health problems or human factor reports in the media do we?
After several rail accidents and the fatalities involved, why are us aviators targeted so readily?
Here in the Uk the aviation safety record is world class and yet the media love any chance to hang us.
Leave the poor chap alone to recover. After all its why we fly two crew(at least).
If we are looking for something to learn from....a shake up of Canadian flight duty regs?
Not enough people? Tube drivers earn more than alot of First Officers and carry hundreds of passengers....and yet we dont hear of health problems or human factor reports in the media do we?
After several rail accidents and the fatalities involved, why are us aviators targeted so readily?
Here in the Uk the aviation safety record is world class and yet the media love any chance to hang us.
Leave the poor chap alone to recover. After all its why we fly two crew(at least).
If we are looking for something to learn from....a shake up of Canadian flight duty regs?
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From someone with a similar case, i expected to come on this forum and see the word "crazy" thrown around and was pleasantly suprised of that not being the case. I WAS a pilot until i had a nervous breakdown. Had many signs that i kept hidden for a few years. Putting on an act everyday i went to work and played the game so to speak. I was extremely unhappy, suicidal thoughts etc etc. I was aware of what depression was, however; never once thought that i was deep in it. It started to affect my physical health as well. I had many heart related tests due to dizzy spells and fainting episodes. I still didn't have an answer for these spells yet, but at least i knew my heart was strong.....
Finally it all came too much to handle and i fell apart. The hardest thing i think i've ever done is call a fellow pilot, who i very much respect and proceeded to tell him that i was going to hand in my resignation because i couldn't do the job anymore. After hearing everything i was going thru, he advised me to contact our pilot assistance program, which i did. That was the best advice i could have received at the time. I called the assistance program and again explained what i was feeling and how it was starting to affect all facets of my life, career and personal. The next step, after calling crew sched to book off the pairing i was starting the next day, was to go see a doctor?? Why go see a doctor if i was just in the wrong career and couldn't handle the "stress"? My problem was not a medical one, or so i thought. To make a long story shorter. I was diagnosed with depression and later on with Bi-Polar type II. My pilot career as it stands now, is over. But because of the exceptional airline i work for, i've continued on in another capacity and i'm extremely excited and happy. I'm on a mood stabilizer and anti-depressants and i feel great, better then i've felt in years!
The moral of the story......I had great support, personally and thru our Pilot assistance program. (i had never met this person before and it's amazing how much he supported me thru the whole ordeal!)
This Air Canada incident really struck home for me, as it was where i was heading eventually. I just couldn't continue the way i was and did the hardest thing i've ever had to do, i told someone......
I don't know this pilot's history or what his diagnosis will be, but it's important for us as pilots to be supportive and not ridicule or pass judgement. We do disjustice to our profession when we do this. It is an illness, no matter what people may think or say and should be treated as one......If we're more accepting of this as a disease and drop the stigma attached to mental illness, maybe we'll be able to avoid similar incidents in the future and encourage those suffering from it alone, to seek help.
As for my name etc, for now, i will keep it confidential. At least til i'm more confident that this is more accepted as an illness. Which i'm sure is still years away. At least i have the anonymity of the internet for now......
Finally it all came too much to handle and i fell apart. The hardest thing i think i've ever done is call a fellow pilot, who i very much respect and proceeded to tell him that i was going to hand in my resignation because i couldn't do the job anymore. After hearing everything i was going thru, he advised me to contact our pilot assistance program, which i did. That was the best advice i could have received at the time. I called the assistance program and again explained what i was feeling and how it was starting to affect all facets of my life, career and personal. The next step, after calling crew sched to book off the pairing i was starting the next day, was to go see a doctor?? Why go see a doctor if i was just in the wrong career and couldn't handle the "stress"? My problem was not a medical one, or so i thought. To make a long story shorter. I was diagnosed with depression and later on with Bi-Polar type II. My pilot career as it stands now, is over. But because of the exceptional airline i work for, i've continued on in another capacity and i'm extremely excited and happy. I'm on a mood stabilizer and anti-depressants and i feel great, better then i've felt in years!
The moral of the story......I had great support, personally and thru our Pilot assistance program. (i had never met this person before and it's amazing how much he supported me thru the whole ordeal!)
This Air Canada incident really struck home for me, as it was where i was heading eventually. I just couldn't continue the way i was and did the hardest thing i've ever had to do, i told someone......
I don't know this pilot's history or what his diagnosis will be, but it's important for us as pilots to be supportive and not ridicule or pass judgement. We do disjustice to our profession when we do this. It is an illness, no matter what people may think or say and should be treated as one......If we're more accepting of this as a disease and drop the stigma attached to mental illness, maybe we'll be able to avoid similar incidents in the future and encourage those suffering from it alone, to seek help.
As for my name etc, for now, i will keep it confidential. At least til i'm more confident that this is more accepted as an illness. Which i'm sure is still years away. At least i have the anonymity of the internet for now......
Last edited by AHM2002; 1st Feb 2008 at 19:10.
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"
O2 masks
"The Times said the Captain was required by standard procedures to wear an oxygen mask for the remainder of the flight becuase he was on his own - is this a normal SOP on longhaul ops because it is not a requirement in my company."
This is a very old rule that was changed years ago. I am sure the 767 Capt did not put on his mask. The statement in the paper came from another speculator. The only requirement to wear a mask when you are alone in the cockpit is when you are above FL410. Other than that, the mask has to be readily available which they are with quick doning masks in all airliners."
Could be the Times read the FAA rules - 121.333 says if only one pilot at controls above FL250 he has use the Oxygen mask. The FAA was going to change that a year or two ago but kept the rule in the end.
O2 masks "The Times said the Captain was required by standard procedures to wear an oxygen mask for the remainder of the flight becuase he was on his own - is this a normal SOP on longhaul ops because it is not a requirement in my company."
This is a very old rule that was changed years ago. I am sure the 767 Capt did not put on his mask. The statement in the paper came from another speculator. The only requirement to wear a mask when you are alone in the cockpit is when you are above FL410. Other than that, the mask has to be readily available which they are with quick doning masks in all airliners."
Could be the Times read the FAA rules - 121.333 says if only one pilot at controls above FL250 he has use the Oxygen mask. The FAA was going to change that a year or two ago but kept the rule in the end.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/pu.../RAC/Annex.htm
Use of Oxygen
605.32
(1) Where an aircraft is operated at cabin-pressure-altitudes above 10 000 ft ASL, but not exceeding 13 000 ft ASL, each crew member shall wear an oxygen mask and use supplemental oxygen for any part of the flight at those altitudes that is more than 30 min in duration.
(2) Where an aircraft is operated at cabin-pressure-altitudes above 13 000 ft ASL, each person on board the aircraft shall wear an oxygen mask and use supplemental oxygen for the duration of the flight at those altitudes.
(3) The pilot at the flight controls of an aircraft shall use an oxygen mask if
(a) the aircraft is not equipped with quick-donning oxygen masks and is operated at or above FL250; or
(b) the aircraft is equipped with quick-donning oxygen masks and is operated above FL410.
605.32
(1) Where an aircraft is operated at cabin-pressure-altitudes above 10 000 ft ASL, but not exceeding 13 000 ft ASL, each crew member shall wear an oxygen mask and use supplemental oxygen for any part of the flight at those altitudes that is more than 30 min in duration.
(2) Where an aircraft is operated at cabin-pressure-altitudes above 13 000 ft ASL, each person on board the aircraft shall wear an oxygen mask and use supplemental oxygen for the duration of the flight at those altitudes.
(3) The pilot at the flight controls of an aircraft shall use an oxygen mask if
(a) the aircraft is not equipped with quick-donning oxygen masks and is operated at or above FL250; or
(b) the aircraft is equipped with quick-donning oxygen masks and is operated above FL410.
India Four Two;
Thanks, that settles it I think - no mask required in this circumstance.
Decades ago, we were required to don an Ox mask when the other crew member momentarily left the cockpit. That requirement was discontinued and the only requirement now is when operating above 410; - the P1, (pilot flying) is required to wear the mask. This all assumes quick-donning equipment.
Thanks, that settles it I think - no mask required in this circumstance.
Decades ago, we were required to don an Ox mask when the other crew member momentarily left the cockpit. That requirement was discontinued and the only requirement now is when operating above 410; - the P1, (pilot flying) is required to wear the mask. This all assumes quick-donning equipment.
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Do you understand Spanish and want to read some opinions about the issue? The article in El Mundo starts with these words: "The Professional Pilots' Rumour Network is a forum on the Internet accessible to all audiences, where airline pilots discuss their profession. So if you want to maintain the belief that our security is in good hands, you should stay away from this site as far as possible."
The entire article you can find here.
The entire article you can find here.