BA B777 Incident @ Heathrow (merged)
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Originally Posted by Lafyar Kokov
Why is the server so busy today????
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I am not a 777 driver...but:
does the 777 have a "ground Idle" setting...is it triggered by WOW "weight on wheels"?
if for some reason the gear/wow switch told the plane it was on the ground, would idle thrust lever settings go to "ground idle" instead of "flight idle"
does the 777 have a "ground Idle" setting...is it triggered by WOW "weight on wheels"?
if for some reason the gear/wow switch told the plane it was on the ground, would idle thrust lever settings go to "ground idle" instead of "flight idle"
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This URL will take you to the lo-fi version of this thread. Seems to work even when 'server busy' , but you won't be able to post.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/archive.../t-309075.html
http://www.pprune.org/forums/archive.../t-309075.html
aka Capt PPRuNe
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Multiple bird strike on short finals?
Based on the more plausible eyewitness statements that I've heard, and from the touchdown furrows and the relatively short distance that the a/c slid, it certainly looks like there was very little, if any, forward thrust whilst airspeed was maintained at or very close to stall speed. Whilst I have no experience of the B777, it certainly looks as though this a/c landed at very low speed and probably at stall speed. This, possibly due to the pilots trying to extend their glide to at least put it down within the perimeter of the airport.
The running out of fuel scenario certainly is very unlikely, whether by leakage or faulty fuel gauges. Also, for the FADEC system to remove the power uncommanded is unheard of. What could be a factor, IMHO, is a multiple bird strike whilst on short finals.
Looking at how close to the Localiser antenna the a/c touched down, any failure of thrust more than a few seconds earlier would have had much more dire consequences with regards as to where the initial ground contact would have been. A multiple bird strike that seriously reduced the available thrust, late in the approach, would have left the pilots with no options but to try and stretch the glide and get it on the ground within the airport boundary where light fittings, antennae and other sharp pointy bits are of the frangible type and emergency services are available and trained to deal with the consequences.
The running out of fuel scenario certainly is very unlikely, whether by leakage or faulty fuel gauges. Also, for the FADEC system to remove the power uncommanded is unheard of. What could be a factor, IMHO, is a multiple bird strike whilst on short finals.
Looking at how close to the Localiser antenna the a/c touched down, any failure of thrust more than a few seconds earlier would have had much more dire consequences with regards as to where the initial ground contact would have been. A multiple bird strike that seriously reduced the available thrust, late in the approach, would have left the pilots with no options but to try and stretch the glide and get it on the ground within the airport boundary where light fittings, antennae and other sharp pointy bits are of the frangible type and emergency services are available and trained to deal with the consequences.
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Speculation...
BBC2 tonight had a number of "guessers" but wind shear ranked highly. Forecaster said just the right conditions existed at Heathrow at 12.45 for such an event and to hit shear with the aircraft carrying maximum drag must have caused the pilot to do everything possible to lift the nose over the boundary fence and get the aircraft down. Wet, soggy soil from days of rain would be devastating to the undercarriage which was clearly ripped off on one side and thrust through the wing from high G impact on the other.
Whatever the cause the Flight Deck did a great job and full marks to the Cabin Crew who reportedly started the evacuation without an audible Flight Deck instruction. First class conduct all round.
Whatever the cause the Flight Deck did a great job and full marks to the Cabin Crew who reportedly started the evacuation without an audible Flight Deck instruction. First class conduct all round.
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Inevitably the press have published the Captain's name. Do the general public really care about names and ages of those involved at the expense of their privacy on a traumatising day for them? I very much hope he doesn't get harrassed thanks to them.
BBC also referred to him as "the pilot". Maybe the incident happened because the 777 should have had more than one pilot ... rostering error ... and said one pilot had the fish ...... print that on your website BBC as a possible cause
Personally I'll wait for the AAIB to tell us the cause but gut feeling is this crew done good
BBC also referred to him as "the pilot". Maybe the incident happened because the 777 should have had more than one pilot ... rostering error ... and said one pilot had the fish ...... print that on your website BBC as a possible cause
Personally I'll wait for the AAIB to tell us the cause but gut feeling is this crew done good
Last edited by Beavis and Butthead; 17th Jan 2008 at 22:55.
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What doesn't make sense about the 'loss of power' theory is that none of the passengers have reported 'the lights went out' or 'the screens turned off.' That's normally the sort of stuff pax notice, and the first to be load shed in the event of a problem.
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Mr PPrune
I think your statement is deffinately plausible, makes much more sense to me than some of the rubbish i've read this morning. Visibility certainly would have given aircrew a suitable view of the runway in question, i deffinately believe the engines lost power, and aircrew dealt with their situation and delayed the touch down point appropriately, great effort aircrew! If they hadn't of reacted so quickly IMO, the aircraft could have possibly landed further aft of their current touch down point taking out the ILS installation and/or ending up in the scrub, wonder what the PAPPI looked like from the flightdeck when losing thrust.
Cheers
P.S Great job aircrew!
I think your statement is deffinately plausible, makes much more sense to me than some of the rubbish i've read this morning. Visibility certainly would have given aircrew a suitable view of the runway in question, i deffinately believe the engines lost power, and aircrew dealt with their situation and delayed the touch down point appropriately, great effort aircrew
! If they hadn't of reacted so quickly IMO, the aircraft could have possibly landed further aft of their current touch down point taking out the ILS installation and/or ending up in the scrub, wonder what the PAPPI looked like from the flightdeck when losing thrust. Cheers
P.S Great job aircrew!
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Theres no way this was a result of multiple bird strikes, in most cases you would still have some sort of power left to get the aircraft on the ground even if the engines were on fire. Neither would I believe the windshear theory it would take a very severe microburst to bring down a 777. I would place a bet on faulty fuel gauges....
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Maybe the 777 hit the pprune server as it crash landed short of 27L? 
That would explain a fair amount!
I can't help but think how frightning that must have looked from the Flight Deck - however it happened.
Hope the crew manage to get a good nights sleep, maybe this can remind us all how there is nothing 'run-of-the-mill' about flying airliners, and how there are thousands of crew out there who prevent accidents like this happening every day..........
That would explain a fair amount!
I can't help but think how frightning that must have looked from the Flight Deck - however it happened.
Hope the crew manage to get a good nights sleep, maybe this can remind us all how there is nothing 'run-of-the-mill' about flying airliners, and how there are thousands of crew out there who prevent accidents like this happening every day..........
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It's a real head-scratcher isn't it?
I feel that the open APU inlet door is significant, whether it autostarted or was due to crew action I have no idea. What are the crew actions needed to bring it on line? I'd assume it is fairly high up the list of actions to take on total engine failure.
How on earth are they going to shift the aircraft? The lack of u/c is going to make it tricky, and anything they could bolt a temporary u/c to has quite likely been left rather bent.
I feel that the open APU inlet door is significant, whether it autostarted or was due to crew action I have no idea. What are the crew actions needed to bring it on line? I'd assume it is fairly high up the list of actions to take on total engine failure.
How on earth are they going to shift the aircraft? The lack of u/c is going to make it tricky, and anything they could bolt a temporary u/c to has quite likely been left rather bent.
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Microburst
Looks like windshear from a microburst, recent weather conditions are conducive to such an occurrence. Microbursts last for avg 5 minutes and can affect an area up to 5km wide, they materialise due to downdrafts from Cu/Cb clouds. I would guess the a/c entered the most dangerous tailwind portion on short finals. Given eyewitness reports sounds like pilot flying did the right thing holding her at CLmax and the resultant relatively low airspeed accounts for very short landing roll.
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Glad that everyone got out ok. Seen the Daily Mail's headline for tomorrow, 'The pilot Grappled with the controls'. Usual journo description, but maybe this time they might be partly right?!?!
Well done to all the crew.
Well done to all the crew.
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Loud noise
Just thought I throw my 5 cents in the discussion as well... If it was a dual flame out, could it possibly be that the loud noise eyewitnesses heard could have come from the extended RAT? I know that the RAT makes a hell a lot of noise on the A320 when deployed, so I was wondering if that might be a reason...
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interview
One of the passengers goes into detail. This is that 'Jason' fella mentioned previously.
http://video.google.com.au/videoplay...arch&plindex=7
http://video.google.com.au/videoplay...arch&plindex=7
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Never has the phrase "any landing you can walk away from is a good one..." meant so much...!
Perhaps, for once, the 'speculators' will refrain from 'informed comment' and simply maintain a dignified silence until the official outcome. 138 passengers, and who knows how many others, owe a great deal to the experience and professionalism of two people today....
"It is a wiseman who says nothing...when there is nothing else to say...."
Perhaps, for once, the 'speculators' will refrain from 'informed comment' and simply maintain a dignified silence until the official outcome. 138 passengers, and who knows how many others, owe a great deal to the experience and professionalism of two people today....
"It is a wiseman who says nothing...when there is nothing else to say...."