BA B777 Incident @ Heathrow (merged)
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The conditions on this particular day was less than favorable for a normal landing, not to mention an emergency one. Wind on the ground was 10-15 kts, but 30-40 kts at 1000-2000 ft. Not unusual, but it was a fairly bumpy ride when we landed just before BA 038.
30 seconds. So you expect the flight crew to inform ATC, make a PA, try to figure out what happened to the engines, how to rectify the problem and what to do next during this very limited time? You are all prepared for a dual engine failure at all times, are you? This crew did what was expected of them, saved everybody on board!
I really hope (and expect) that the entire crew of BA 038 get the proper psycological treatment after this unfortunate accident. God, I (think) I know how I would feel after planting my aircraft on the lawn 200 yards before the runway, no matter what caused it in the first place! The guilt!
To the entire crew of BA 038, I take my hat off to you all! Congratulations! Job well done!
30 seconds. So you expect the flight crew to inform ATC, make a PA, try to figure out what happened to the engines, how to rectify the problem and what to do next during this very limited time? You are all prepared for a dual engine failure at all times, are you? This crew did what was expected of them, saved everybody on board!
I really hope (and expect) that the entire crew of BA 038 get the proper psycological treatment after this unfortunate accident. God, I (think) I know how I would feel after planting my aircraft on the lawn 200 yards before the runway, no matter what caused it in the first place! The guilt!
To the entire crew of BA 038, I take my hat off to you all! Congratulations! Job well done!
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Show me a laptop that doesn't have wireless networking fitted and enabled as standard these days.
How many people know even how to turn it off (the networking) ?
How many people know even how to turn it off (the networking) ?
But this is a mute arguement as there would be nobody with their laptop on at this point of decent.
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To the entire crew of BA 038, I take my hat off to you all! Congratulations! Job well done!
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Wind on the ground was 10-15 kts, but 30-40 kts at 1000-2000 ft.
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I don't care
Right, I'm sick of this. "What if we praise the flight crew and it turns out they were at fault?"
I don't give a fiddler's f**k.
At the moment, and as it stands, they brought a malfunctioning jet in to land short within a very short period of time. Everyone survived, and injuries, I believe, were only minor.
Even if, they were initially at fault, which I might add, has absolutely no grounding, and seems less likely given BA & WW's actions, they still managed to recover enough to save all souls.
I would really like to see less people warning against praising the flight crew. Is it so difficult to acknowledge a job well done? Can you honestly say that praise is not due when lives were saved, regardless of the cause?
Oh, and I couldn't give a toss what way husband met wife or who's kids are who's, what sort of gutter trash journalism is that?
/rant over/
r011in
I don't give a fiddler's f**k.
At the moment, and as it stands, they brought a malfunctioning jet in to land short within a very short period of time. Everyone survived, and injuries, I believe, were only minor.
Even if, they were initially at fault, which I might add, has absolutely no grounding, and seems less likely given BA & WW's actions, they still managed to recover enough to save all souls.
I would really like to see less people warning against praising the flight crew. Is it so difficult to acknowledge a job well done? Can you honestly say that praise is not due when lives were saved, regardless of the cause?
Oh, and I couldn't give a toss what way husband met wife or who's kids are who's, what sort of gutter trash journalism is that?
/rant over/
r011in
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Ribt4t said;
Interesting 
; tell me more please. 
because Boeing opted not to use parallel programming teams but loaded the same code on redundant systems
; tell me more please.
Last edited by mocoman; 20th Jan 2008 at 01:43.
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"So if a Doctor miss diagnosed your child and almost kills them, but then through whatever miracle manages to save them you would praise the Doctor?"
Until it was proven that the doctor had "almost killed" my child, it would never even occur to me to think along those lines. That is a ridiculous analogy.
Until it was proven that the doctor had "almost killed" my child, it would never even occur to me to think along those lines. That is a ridiculous analogy.
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787 Focal, that's exactly the point I make, but it doesn't detract from the fact that they did a great job AFTER the event. With you ro11ingthunder, on that, I agree.
It may or may not transpire that they were at fault, but it was a job well done to save the pax and themselves.
What happened before? We'll have to wait for the investigators' report.
Is anybody placing any credence on posts here on throttle positions, etc? Where did the information come from? I don't believe any of the crew have posted, and the texts of interviews haven't been published, so it's all hearsay.
By all means put forward your theories guys, but please don't represent anything as fact that you don't know actually happened, and I believe none of us know that at this moment. If it was reported that Capt ............ said "............" in the daily papers, that is not fact.
It may or may not transpire that they were at fault, but it was a job well done to save the pax and themselves.
What happened before? We'll have to wait for the investigators' report.
Is anybody placing any credence on posts here on throttle positions, etc? Where did the information come from? I don't believe any of the crew have posted, and the texts of interviews haven't been published, so it's all hearsay.
By all means put forward your theories guys, but please don't represent anything as fact that you don't know actually happened, and I believe none of us know that at this moment. If it was reported that Capt ............ said "............" in the daily papers, that is not fact.
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Until it was proven that the doctor had "almost killed" my child, it would never even occur to me to think along those lines. That is a ridiculous analogy.
ps. I am hoping that it was not their fault, but with the track record of most accidents being human error the odds are against us.
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TOGA..... or not to TOGA
Did the crew think to press the TOGA button?
It should have circumnavigated the glitch.... perhaps it should be(come) an SOP...
Can't recall having seen that mentioned anywhere yet....
It should have circumnavigated the glitch.... perhaps it should be(come) an SOP...
Can't recall having seen that mentioned anywhere yet....
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"You must be female."
Eh, all I can do is point out that this supposition on your part can be filed with your tendency to point the finger of blame at the flight crew... in the midden heap.
Last time I checked I was a red-blooded male.
PS Oh Lord I wanted to leave it at that, but I just couldn't. What the HELL made you come out with a statement like that when what this thread is about is trying to ascertain the cause of the accident in Heathrow? I have read some seriously spurious posts on this thread, some of which reflected very badly on the intelligence of the poster, but your's, my friend, takes the proverbial biscuit!
Eh, all I can do is point out that this supposition on your part can be filed with your tendency to point the finger of blame at the flight crew... in the midden heap.
Last time I checked I was a red-blooded male.
PS Oh Lord I wanted to leave it at that, but I just couldn't. What the HELL made you come out with a statement like that when what this thread is about is trying to ascertain the cause of the accident in Heathrow? I have read some seriously spurious posts on this thread, some of which reflected very badly on the intelligence of the poster, but your's, my friend, takes the proverbial biscuit!
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@787FOCAL
I think it would be fairer to say that most accidents have human error as a significant factor; it's rare that human error alone is the cause, usually something else either produces the conditions for the error, or fails to detect or protect against the error.
I think it would be fairer to say that most accidents have human error as a significant factor; it's rare that human error alone is the cause, usually something else either produces the conditions for the error, or fails to detect or protect against the error.
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I think it would be fairer to say that most accidents have human error as a significant factor; it's rare that human error alone is the cause, usually something else either produces the conditions for the error, or fails to detect or protect against the error.
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"Last time I checked it looked to me that 99% were human error. Has this changed?"
Can I ask when it was you "last checked", and what it was you checked, and also how you calculated your percentage figure?
Can I ask when it was you "last checked", and what it was you checked, and also how you calculated your percentage figure?
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What ever the cause of engines failing to respond at 600 ft the pilots did the best they could do to get it over the fence and the airport level property to put it down. It saved a lot of lives and they should be commended for it. We are required to be stabilized on our op specs IFR and VMC approaches and obviously if we do that loss of thrust control will not get you to the runway if thrust is low.
Flying light airplanes it was easy to keep the pattern tight so you could glide in but once configured and on speed no wide body could make the runway with a loss of power.
No one established on an ILS could land from 600 ft properly configured with any loss of total power. If one engine was fully functioning, sure. In this case neither engine would spool up. The captain said that.
Flying light airplanes it was easy to keep the pattern tight so you could glide in but once configured and on speed no wide body could make the runway with a loss of power.
No one established on an ILS could land from 600 ft properly configured with any loss of total power. If one engine was fully functioning, sure. In this case neither engine would spool up. The captain said that.
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I don't know the % which identify human error, but it's rare that a single cause exists.
Even where the human makes the fatal error, you can always say "the designers should have ...."; there are a lot of systems on aircraft today designed to try to detect human errors, and more proposed. And often a bad or mis-thought MMI can contribute to human error too.
Even where the human makes the fatal error, you can always say "the designers should have ...."; there are a lot of systems on aircraft today designed to try to detect human errors, and more proposed. And often a bad or mis-thought MMI can contribute to human error too.