BA B777 Incident @ Heathrow (merged)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sixandthreeland
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"We" = our company Merlin Broadcast which makes tv factual documentaries.
Also , of course, the crew have since been on tv and it appears the Senior Flight Officer - not the captain - was in the left hand seat and handled the landing.
Also , of course, the crew have since been on tv and it appears the Senior Flight Officer - not the captain - was in the left hand seat and handled the landing.
You aren't quite there yet.
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Europe
Posts: 352
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Being a hydro-mechanical fuel control operator, I am curious as to how the FADEC and throttle signal are powered.
Do the FADEC have it's own power supply or is using aircraft power, or both depending what's available? What powers the throttle position signal? Same supply as the FADEC or is it split?
Do the FADEC have it's own power supply or is using aircraft power, or both depending what's available? What powers the throttle position signal? Same supply as the FADEC or is it split?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Wirral
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi there.
After reading the Mirror today about the incident, i don;t know if anyone else has seen this about "automatic reversing thrusters" and also noone can seem to get the correct story right now about the Primer Minister either about whether he was on the motorway about to be struck by the aircraft, or waiting to depart on his plane.
Anywhos, about the plane. The Mirror had a section about a theory of automatic reversing thrusters that usually come on a few feet before landing. After reading this and it saying that they might have came on too high up as part of a malfunction by themselves, i couldnt help but think what a load of rubbish they are talking!
Am i wrong about automatic reverse thrusts feet from landing or am i right that this is not actually in aircraft and the thrusters do not go on until the manual pull back on the thrusters throttle/lever. It really annoys me when papers have no clue what they're talking about. I have seen many other silly mess ups, but this stood out too much and are they not talking a load of rubbish?
Ryan.
After reading the Mirror today about the incident, i don;t know if anyone else has seen this about "automatic reversing thrusters" and also noone can seem to get the correct story right now about the Primer Minister either about whether he was on the motorway about to be struck by the aircraft, or waiting to depart on his plane.
Anywhos, about the plane. The Mirror had a section about a theory of automatic reversing thrusters that usually come on a few feet before landing. After reading this and it saying that they might have came on too high up as part of a malfunction by themselves, i couldnt help but think what a load of rubbish they are talking!
Am i wrong about automatic reverse thrusts feet from landing or am i right that this is not actually in aircraft and the thrusters do not go on until the manual pull back on the thrusters throttle/lever. It really annoys me when papers have no clue what they're talking about. I have seen many other silly mess ups, but this stood out too much and are they not talking a load of rubbish?
Ryan.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Essex
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aaaaaagggghhhhhh. Please please please could the media try and engage brain before blurting out total garbage and supposition. I can see how they must be totally confused with the fact there was more than one pilot on board. What a revelation. Who would of thought that. Next comes the incredibly amazing revelation that it was the Captain`s Co-Pilot that was handling the aircraft. That would be the Co-Pilot belonging to the Captain would it!!!!!!!!!! He`s called a First Officer and he doesn`t belong to anybody you gits.
More`s the point, not that the media would understand such things but if the left seat has just got his command on 777 having been FO on 747s for the last 15 years (Lets say, just 100 hours on type and in the left seat) and the F.O. has been sat in the right seat of 777 for the last 10 years....... Who would you suppose might be in the better position to handle in this sort of instance. Aaaaaaggghhh, Now the beeb are banging on about "his Co-Pilot") Am getting very angry now.
More`s the point, not that the media would understand such things but if the left seat has just got his command on 777 having been FO on 747s for the last 15 years (Lets say, just 100 hours on type and in the left seat) and the F.O. has been sat in the right seat of 777 for the last 10 years....... Who would you suppose might be in the better position to handle in this sort of instance. Aaaaaaggghhh, Now the beeb are banging on about "his Co-Pilot") Am getting very angry now.
Guest
Posts: n/a
" Who are these "experts" that keep getting drafted in? I worry that I may be missing out on a profitable niche as a self-appointed expert in something. "
Last I heard, most news organisations don't like paying.
That may help explain the quality of 'expert'.
Last I heard, most news organisations don't like paying.
That may help explain the quality of 'expert'.
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 929
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So a total elec/loss of thrust. FOR UNKNOWN ?? reasons and the AAIB have not recomended that the world wide 777 fleet be grounded till they know the cause. Methinks they know the cause & all this speculation is a load of tosh
short flights long nights
Doubtfire...you are kidding right?? !!! ??.....No I thought not..where do they find these jerkks
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Earth
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Slow server, so this may already have been said
Does anyone really think that if a 777 had total power loss, and no reason could be given straight away that they would let the rest of the 777 fleet keep flying??? I think not......
Looking forward to tomorrows AAIIB report......
Looking forward to tomorrows AAIIB report......
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Manchester, England
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just an A330 jock here, would the ADI and the HSI (or the PFD and ND in "bus" talk) on the right hand side still have power after (pure speculation) both engines fail? The 330 would be down to emerg bat power thus only the left screens would be showing any info...
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Surrey Hills
Posts: 1,478
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AAIB Part report.
"Examination of the aircraft systems and engines is ongoing.
Initial indications from the interviews and Flight Recorder analyses show the flight and approach to have progressed normally until the aircraft was established on late finals for Runway 27L. At approximately 600 ft and 2 miles from touch down, the Autothrottle demanded an increase in thrust from the two engines but the engines did not respond. Following further demands for increased thrust from the Autothrottle, and subsequently the flight crew moving the throttle levers, the engines similarly failed to respond. The aircraft speed reduced and the aircraft descended onto the grass short of the paved runway surface.
The investigation is now focussed on more detailed analysis of the Flight Recorder information, collecting further recorded information from various system modules and examining the range of aircraft systems that could influence engine operation."
"Examination of the aircraft systems and engines is ongoing.
Initial indications from the interviews and Flight Recorder analyses show the flight and approach to have progressed normally until the aircraft was established on late finals for Runway 27L. At approximately 600 ft and 2 miles from touch down, the Autothrottle demanded an increase in thrust from the two engines but the engines did not respond. Following further demands for increased thrust from the Autothrottle, and subsequently the flight crew moving the throttle levers, the engines similarly failed to respond. The aircraft speed reduced and the aircraft descended onto the grass short of the paved runway surface.
The investigation is now focussed on more detailed analysis of the Flight Recorder information, collecting further recorded information from various system modules and examining the range of aircraft systems that could influence engine operation."
In the Flight Gallery of the Science Museum in London there is a slice through the fuselage of a Boeing 747 - basically a one seat-row cross section from the double deck level behind the flight deck. It is in BA livery.
Suitable home for part of the 777?
Suitable home for part of the 777?
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Essex
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BBC now reporting that "Accident Investigators" are stating that engines failed to respond during landing that they didn`t respond to demand for increased thrust at 2 mile point.
Any 777 drivers care to comment on a standard approach as to when engines should spool up from idle after selecting landing flap and a/c airspeed back at vref. Could it be at the 2 mile point (ie 600ft) or maybe nearer 3 miles? Plenty of time maybe for a mayday call but no disrespect to the crew, other things on mind and hands busy etc etc.
Any 777 drivers care to comment on a standard approach as to when engines should spool up from idle after selecting landing flap and a/c airspeed back at vref. Could it be at the 2 mile point (ie 600ft) or maybe nearer 3 miles? Plenty of time maybe for a mayday call but no disrespect to the crew, other things on mind and hands busy etc etc.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Heard it on - I think - on Sky News.
From the captain's statement it wasn't clear what part he played in the emergency himself
He said "Flying is about teamwork - and we had outstanding team on board yesterday. As captain I am proud to say every member of my team played their part expertly yesterday, displahying with the highest standards of skill and professionalism - no one more so than my senior first officer Officer John Coward who was the handling pilot on the final approach and did the most remarkable job. My first officer Conner McGuinness also continually assisted. "
The BBC reported that the Captain had taken the outward leg of the trip and would not necessarily have flown the return leg.
So - you tell me - who was sitting where?
From the captain's statement it wasn't clear what part he played in the emergency himself
He said "Flying is about teamwork - and we had outstanding team on board yesterday. As captain I am proud to say every member of my team played their part expertly yesterday, displahying with the highest standards of skill and professionalism - no one more so than my senior first officer Officer John Coward who was the handling pilot on the final approach and did the most remarkable job. My first officer Conner McGuinness also continually assisted. "
The BBC reported that the Captain had taken the outward leg of the trip and would not necessarily have flown the return leg.
So - you tell me - who was sitting where?
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: LFA7
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From the AAIB initial report:
>>>Following an uneventful flight from Beijing, China, the aircraft was established on an ILS approach to Runway 27L at London Heathrow. Initially the approach progressed normally, with the Autopilot and Autothrottle engaged, until the aircraft was at a height of approximately 600 ft and 2 miles from touch down. The aircraft then descended rapidly and struck the ground, some 1,000 ft short of the paved runway surface, just inside the airfield boundary fence. The aircraft stopped on the very beginning of the paved surface of Runway 27L. During the short ground roll the right main landing gear separated from the wing and the left main landing gear was pushed up through the wing root. A significant amount of fuel leaked from the aircraft but there was no fire. An emergency evacuation via the slides was supervised by the cabin crew and all occupants left the aircraft, some receiving minor injuries.
Initial indications from the interviews and Flight Recorder analyses show the flight and approach to have progressed normally until the aircraft was established on late finals for Runway 27L. At approximately 600 ft and 2 miles from touch down, the Autothrottle demanded an increase in thrust from the two engines but the engines did not respond. Following further demands for increased thrust from the Autothrottle, and subsequently the flight crew moving the throttle levers, the engines similarly failed to respond. The aircraft speed reduced and the aircraft descended onto the grass short of the paved runway surface.<<<
>>>Following an uneventful flight from Beijing, China, the aircraft was established on an ILS approach to Runway 27L at London Heathrow. Initially the approach progressed normally, with the Autopilot and Autothrottle engaged, until the aircraft was at a height of approximately 600 ft and 2 miles from touch down. The aircraft then descended rapidly and struck the ground, some 1,000 ft short of the paved runway surface, just inside the airfield boundary fence. The aircraft stopped on the very beginning of the paved surface of Runway 27L. During the short ground roll the right main landing gear separated from the wing and the left main landing gear was pushed up through the wing root. A significant amount of fuel leaked from the aircraft but there was no fire. An emergency evacuation via the slides was supervised by the cabin crew and all occupants left the aircraft, some receiving minor injuries.
Initial indications from the interviews and Flight Recorder analyses show the flight and approach to have progressed normally until the aircraft was established on late finals for Runway 27L. At approximately 600 ft and 2 miles from touch down, the Autothrottle demanded an increase in thrust from the two engines but the engines did not respond. Following further demands for increased thrust from the Autothrottle, and subsequently the flight crew moving the throttle levers, the engines similarly failed to respond. The aircraft speed reduced and the aircraft descended onto the grass short of the paved runway surface.<<<
TS;
Only according to the B777 AOM, (I'm 340/330 qualified, not B777), the Captain's flight instruments are available on standby power if there is battery only available; if the RAT generator is available, the F/O's flight instruments are also available.
This has been quite a beginning to 2008. Three major incidents, no fatalities thank goodness, and superb, professional performances from aircrews all around, notwithistanding original causes which even today are not known or at least made public.
Random or a pattern? Aviation, especially the large transport sector, is so safe now that establishing patterns with so few data-points is difficult yet in the end this question is going to be asked and when deeply examined enough, "random" causes give way to reasons.
It's already going to be an interesting year for safety people. Let us hope that it gets no more interesting.
Only according to the B777 AOM, (I'm 340/330 qualified, not B777), the Captain's flight instruments are available on standby power if there is battery only available; if the RAT generator is available, the F/O's flight instruments are also available.
This has been quite a beginning to 2008. Three major incidents, no fatalities thank goodness, and superb, professional performances from aircrews all around, notwithistanding original causes which even today are not known or at least made public.
Random or a pattern? Aviation, especially the large transport sector, is so safe now that establishing patterns with so few data-points is difficult yet in the end this question is going to be asked and when deeply examined enough, "random" causes give way to reasons.
It's already going to be an interesting year for safety people. Let us hope that it gets no more interesting.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,044
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So - you tell me - who was sitting where?
From the captain's statement it wasn't clear what part he played in the emergemcy itself
So the fact that the SFO was flying, meant the Captain was probably working hard at drills / assisting / diagnosing....