BA B777 Incident @ Heathrow (merged)
Doubt RAT deployment
Let me preface this by acknowledging that I'm neither a pilot nor a regular on PPRuNe. I'm an aviation enthusiast who came here for the first time today to see what was being discussed.
It's worth noting that I found my way here because the Wikipedia page for BA38 now includes a link to this discussion forum - this is, no doubt, the reason for the heavy traffic that's causing server overload. Somebody might want to edit the article to remove that link, but I'll leave that up to PPRuNe regulars to decide.
Despite my novice background, I'm quite confident in stating that the RAT could not have been deployed prior to the landing. Had it been deployed, it certainly would have sheared off during the roll-out (slide-out?) on the turf. There's simply no way that the RAT was able to withstand the friction that tore away the MLG.
Further, if you look at the previously posted photo of the RAT, it's obvious that the fuselage damage around that area would have left the RAT exposed. Even its final position suggests that it "fell" out of its stowed position late in the sequence of events.
I commend the highly competent crew for putting this bird down safely, and I'll also add my praise to Boeing for designing an aircraft that is not only fail-safe (evidenced by over a decade without a fatality - what other commercial craft can make that claim?), but also remarkably rugged.
It's worth noting that I found my way here because the Wikipedia page for BA38 now includes a link to this discussion forum - this is, no doubt, the reason for the heavy traffic that's causing server overload. Somebody might want to edit the article to remove that link, but I'll leave that up to PPRuNe regulars to decide.
Despite my novice background, I'm quite confident in stating that the RAT could not have been deployed prior to the landing. Had it been deployed, it certainly would have sheared off during the roll-out (slide-out?) on the turf. There's simply no way that the RAT was able to withstand the friction that tore away the MLG.
Further, if you look at the previously posted photo of the RAT, it's obvious that the fuselage damage around that area would have left the RAT exposed. Even its final position suggests that it "fell" out of its stowed position late in the sequence of events.
I commend the highly competent crew for putting this bird down safely, and I'll also add my praise to Boeing for designing an aircraft that is not only fail-safe (evidenced by over a decade without a fatality - what other commercial craft can make that claim?), but also remarkably rugged.
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Post flight interviewing
I picked up on Sky News this afternoon the crew had been interviewed yesterday evening for three or four hours. Given the well known accuracy associated with media reporting of anything vaguely to do with aviation, this could be taken with a pinch of salt. However, though I am long retired, and may be somewhat out of date with matters pertaining today, I seem to recall recommendations from IFALPA about not submitting to post accident interviews until sufficient rest/recovery time has been allowed (usually overnight), and to be accompanied by suitable representation. I trust the pilots' association was on their case.
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Heads up - BBC Radio Five imminent pilot interview:-
Heads up - BBC Radio Five imminent:-
Interview with BA038 pilot expected any time soon (16.00 UTC).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/ - there is a 'listen again' feature (see 'Drive') if you missed it - though he never gave any details of the event.
Interview with BA038 pilot expected any time soon (16.00 UTC).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/ - there is a 'listen again' feature (see 'Drive') if you missed it - though he never gave any details of the event.
Last edited by G-CPTN; 18th Jan 2008 at 15:41.
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Anyone wondered who the first officers were on the BA038? The captain has received a lot of praise in the media, but there has been no mention of the other 2 pilots, each of whom is as likely as the captain to have been handling the jet at the time. So far I've not even heard their names mentioned... Just a thought...
But then as we know FOs are often handed the responsibility of landing in order to gain experience. Following all we have heard so far (mostly unconfirmed stories of course) that the events unfolded so quickly and unexpectedly, I wouldn't even be surprised if the FO was PIC on landing and the captain didn't have time to take over control of the a/c....
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I wouldn't even be surprised if the FO was PIC on landing and the captain didn't have time to take over control of the a/c....
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The Captain has just made a statement on the news. He praised his First Officer John Coward ? Howard?(could be Towers, I can't make it out) who was the handling pilot at the time. He said he was fortunate to have such an excellent team, and of particular note the CSD who initiated the evacuation calmly and professionally. The three crew representing the team recieved rapturous applause at the end of the statement. No info given on pausible causes as an investigation is under way.
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Appearing on TV Capt Birkill with his SFO, John Coward and Sharon Eaton, Purser with Willie Walsh in attendance made a short statement which was limited in content as one would imagine at this stage and with the AAIB still deliberating.
The most notable comment from Captain Birkhill was that SFO John Coward was PF and it was he that carried out the landing.
The Captain also made it known that his team on board was 'outstanding' and that Sharon attended the FD to ensure that they were OK before she herself descended the escape chute.
The most notable comment from Captain Birkhill was that SFO John Coward was PF and it was he that carried out the landing.
The Captain also made it known that his team on board was 'outstanding' and that Sharon attended the FD to ensure that they were OK before she herself descended the escape chute.
"Engine noise reported much louder than normal"
Bystander reports of abnormally loud engines, perhaps augmented by RAT, may be ascribable to the fact that the a/c was abnormally low.
If it went overhead at, say, 50' instead of, say, 200' at a bystander's viewpoint directly underneath, the perceived noise level would be 16 times higher according to the inverse square law.
If it went overhead at, say, 50' instead of, say, 200' at a bystander's viewpoint directly underneath, the perceived noise level would be 16 times higher according to the inverse square law.
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Is it true that B777 have a history of false negative engine fire warnings?
Would the AFDAS system have sent something out by ACARS before any engine failiure? Perhaps a message was sent out by ACARS over VHF and captured by some hobbyist.
Just a guess
Would the AFDAS system have sent something out by ACARS before any engine failiure? Perhaps a message was sent out by ACARS over VHF and captured by some hobbyist.
Just a guess
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VIDEO
Hi Hetfield. Apologies for lack of clarity! "We" = our company Merlin Broadcast which makes tv factual documentaries. We negotated for months with BAA to try to get permission to locate live cameras at Heathrow to provide rolling live coverage for a dedicated cable/internet channel- but in the end they said "no" (and this was before 9/11).
Anyway - now at least someone HAS come up with video of the incident - albeit on a mobile phone. It shows the aircraft coming in very low and with an unusual nose-high attitude.
Also , of course, the crew have since been on tv and it appears the Senior Flight Officer - not the captain - was in the left hand seat and handled the landing.
Anyway - now at least someone HAS come up with video of the incident - albeit on a mobile phone. It shows the aircraft coming in very low and with an unusual nose-high attitude.
Also , of course, the crew have since been on tv and it appears the Senior Flight Officer - not the captain - was in the left hand seat and handled the landing.
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The Senior FIRST Officer would have been flying from the RIGHT hand seat!
Guess the Sun headline tomorrow........."Hero Coward?"
Can someone please stop the BBC from calling it a Boeing Seven Seven Seven??? It's a "Triple Seven" if you're reading this from The Beeb!
Guess the Sun headline tomorrow........."Hero Coward?"
Can someone please stop the BBC from calling it a Boeing Seven Seven Seven??? It's a "Triple Seven" if you're reading this from The Beeb!
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Is it true that B777 have a history of false negative engine fire warnings?
Would the AFDAS system have sent something out by ACARS before any engine failiure? Perhaps a message was sent out by ACARS over VHF and captured by some hobbyist
or by one of those ACARS websites.
Would the AFDAS system have sent something out by ACARS before any engine failiure? Perhaps a message was sent out by ACARS over VHF and captured by some hobbyist
or by one of those ACARS websites.
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Hi,
SLF here so please treat me with the contempt I deserve. I won't pretend to know anything but I do have a question:
Regarding the increase in engine noise heard by witnesses on ground, is it possible that given the close seperation of aircraft in the Heathrow approach (is it 1 min?), that the increased noise could have been aircraft behind in the "queue" going around?
RP
SLF here so please treat me with the contempt I deserve. I won't pretend to know anything but I do have a question:
Regarding the increase in engine noise heard by witnesses on ground, is it possible that given the close seperation of aircraft in the Heathrow approach (is it 1 min?), that the increased noise could have been aircraft behind in the "queue" going around?
RP
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I would like to know what plans with AAIB / BA have to shift it?? Anybody heard any rumours?
Surely they won't try and move it to Farnborough? Perhaps somewhere can be found at LHR for it, and then can put a temp hangar around it? (similar to Avro at LCY), or maybe even find space in a normal hangar?
Of course, I guess it all hinges on whether it is confirmed as a hull loss or not (I would have thought so, but I have only seen it on TV) - if so then they might as well cut it up and take it to Fb!
HC.
Surely they won't try and move it to Farnborough? Perhaps somewhere can be found at LHR for it, and then can put a temp hangar around it? (similar to Avro at LCY), or maybe even find space in a normal hangar?
Of course, I guess it all hinges on whether it is confirmed as a hull loss or not (I would have thought so, but I have only seen it on TV) - if so then they might as well cut it up and take it to Fb!
HC.
