Iberia Aborted Landing in Bilbao
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Bilbao is a CAT C airport, thus requiring additional training/familiarisation for the flightcrew. mainly due to terrain issues, but also because this same terrain can cause some quite impressive windchanges/gusts, as seen in these pictures.
What exactly went wrong is difficult to see for me though, maybe Airbus collegues can help?
What exactly went wrong is difficult to see for me though, maybe Airbus collegues can help?
Ut Sementem Feeceris
Judging by the rate of smoke drift and the drift on the go around it looks like a stiff southerly breeze. With the significant terrain just to the south, I'm not suprised the approach was a little "sporty". Looks like the wing tip would have been very close to a strike.
Did they divert or get in next time round?
A4
PS I really don't like BIO!
A4
Did they divert or get in next time round?
A4
PS I really don't like BIO!
A4
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The smoke is indeed from the tyres. Watching the sequence it looks like a crosswind denture rattler that caught a gust just at the wrong moment. Still, all in a day's work eh?
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Excellent photos,however with the significant wing drop ,no attempt seems to be made to pick up the wing. No aileron or spoiler deflection seen. I am aware of A320 auto wing level function and the need to be gentle with the sidestick to avoid a PIO in this scenario but would be interested to hear whether a short term rapid right sidestick input would have helped to reduce the tip ground proximity. Thanks.
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Heard from 2 of the passengers on board, the aircraft made 2 attempts to land but both resulted in go-arounds. They then diverted to Vitoria which was very gusty too, especially for a non precision or circling approach on rwy 22, which was the runway in use.
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What of earth do they teach them at flying school these days during basic training? This guy appears not to have any idea of the basics whatsoever.
I among others cannot spot even the hint if corrective action with both aileron or rudder.
I among others cannot spot even the hint if corrective action with both aileron or rudder.
Also interesting to note that despite the firm touchdown in the first photo there is no sign of the spoilers deploying which is perhaps why it bounced in the first place. I suppose it could be that the go-around was being started as the mains touched for the first time, thrust levers not at idle would explain the lack of spoilers.
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Agreed, it doesn't look like good piloting was being exhibited, but none of us have any idea of exactly how bad the conditions were. And thus we should not criticise the Iberia pilot's technique. Is it not true that the same thing could potentially happen to anyone of us given a nasty enough combination of gusts and windshear?
Lingasting, I find it amusing that you seem to be able to deduce that the pilot is incompetent through apparently zooming in on the control surfaces to see exactly what control inputs he/she was putting in during the landing.
Lingasting, I find it amusing that you seem to be able to deduce that the pilot is incompetent through apparently zooming in on the control surfaces to see exactly what control inputs he/she was putting in during the landing.
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It is difficult to be sure but I can detect no right aileron or left rudder in those pictures. I fly old fashioned aircraft. Do they do it a different way in modern ones??
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Bilbao is an 'interesting' airfield to operate into, as are various others. I have on been there on various occasions in the last 20 years.
Stills or single frame photos (if you prefer) do not tell the whole story. The dynamics on any approach can vary significantly from one second to the next, and what seems stable one second can suddenly become unstable.
They require instantaneous decisions by the flight crew as to the best course of action, so before anyone 'critisizes' any decisions made by a flight crew, they should be aware of all factors involved (very unlikely), and the opions considered (also unlikely).
Stills or single frame photos (if you prefer) do not tell the whole story. The dynamics on any approach can vary significantly from one second to the next, and what seems stable one second can suddenly become unstable.
They require instantaneous decisions by the flight crew as to the best course of action, so before anyone 'critisizes' any decisions made by a flight crew, they should be aware of all factors involved (very unlikely), and the opions considered (also unlikely).
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In my opinion the angle and distance from which the pictures are taken from would make it impossible to say for certain whether any rudder or aileron was being applied. To categotically judge the rudder and aileron inputs your viewpoint would have to be directly in line with the aircraft's longitudinal and lateral axes.
Plus I find it hard to believe that the pilot was not using his rudder and ailerons during this attempted landing.
As far as I can make out the pilot's apparent "crime" was to not attempt to de-crab the aircraft before touchdown, however if he had already initiated the go around before the wheels touched the runway then he wouldn't have bothered.
Plus I find it hard to believe that the pilot was not using his rudder and ailerons during this attempted landing.
As far as I can make out the pilot's apparent "crime" was to not attempt to de-crab the aircraft before touchdown, however if he had already initiated the go around before the wheels touched the runway then he wouldn't have bothered.
Last edited by badboy raggamuffin; 16th Jan 2008 at 19:11.
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Nothing to do with bad piloting technique. Regarding the lack of spoilers, it is entirely possible that the handling pilot found himself using thrust until touchdown. In strong gusty cross-winds I often fly it onto/into the ground, better that than chop the thrust at the point the aircraft reminds you what you are and float, float, float...
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What of earth do they teach them at flying school these days during basic training? This guy appears not to have any idea of the basics whatsoever.
I dont normally enter into these arguments but jesus, the crew know what the conditions were at that second in time and thats it!! the rest is pure speculation, yes good pictures but thats all anyone can say...
As for not knowing the basics, do you really think they would be flying if they didnt..
some people....