no jump seat rides???
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: bristol
Age: 80
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
no jump seat rides???
I work at BRS and was lucky enough to get one of the last jump seat rides before they were stopped. I say stopped but it appears that the rules dont apply to KLM flights. Yesterday (Fri 7th nov 07) two bags were bumped from one of their flights to AMS. Whilst being returned landside a further instruction was given to return the bags to the aircraft as the passenger was now flying. On further investigation it was found that the captain was allowing the passenger to use the jump seat. Are we the only country that follows rulles to the letter?
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: EGGW
Posts: 2,112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Who used the Jump seat?
The jump seat can be used by a cabin crew member and their seat used by the pax.
Do you know for sure that the pax used the jump seat in the flight deck?
The jump seat can be used by a cabin crew member and their seat used by the pax.
Do you know for sure that the pax used the jump seat in the flight deck?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: bristol
Age: 80
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
no jump seat rides???
Not for sure, as I didn't access the a/c. I'm afraid it was all word of mouth. I know all about chinese whispers and all that stuff but in the several years I have worked at BRS KLM have been mentioned al least 3 times to my knowledge with regard to this sort of "incident"
Even in the UK there are certain categories of passengers who can quite legally be carried on the Flight Deck, e.g. Company employees with suitable documentation. Maybe KLM has similar rules and the Captain was trying to squeeze a staff passenger on?
niknak
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
KLM and a few other airlines used to be very good in this respect - accomodating passengers on the jump seat at the Captains discretion if the cabin was full and the flight overbooked, if nothing else it was excellent PR .
I find it hard to believe they'd still do it as although they're not a UK based airline they have a big market share at regional UK airports in terms of interlining and if they did have this policy when no one else did it would harm their image as a security concious company.
Even as an ATCO it's next to impossible to get a jump seat ride for the purposes of TRUCE and never as a passenger.
As you say, Chinese whispers etc.
I find it hard to believe they'd still do it as although they're not a UK based airline they have a big market share at regional UK airports in terms of interlining and if they did have this policy when no one else did it would harm their image as a security concious company.
Even as an ATCO it's next to impossible to get a jump seat ride for the purposes of TRUCE and never as a passenger.
As you say, Chinese whispers etc.
OK. There's still the possibility (already mentioned) of the passenger using one of the Cabin Crew jumpseats whilst the displaced Cabin Crew member sits on the Flight Deck jumpseat for take-off and landing.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: From the NW, but not St Ouen's eh!
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Impossible to get Jump seat Rides for TRUCE? We have no problem sorting them at Liverpool. The Airlines are very happy to have us as long as we give them some notice! Got 5 next week. 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Zummerset
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In KLM it IS allowed to place passengers on one of the spare cabin crew jumpseats subject to certain requirements and the approval of the cabin crew. It is not allowed to carry anyone else on the cockpit jumpseat unless they are staff members.
It is quite possible that if the cockpit jumpseat was used then it could have been a KLM crewmember even if they were not in uniform. There are several pilots based at BRS and some deadhead or XCM to AMS (a sort of write your own ticket system of travel- although they have to be in uniform to qualify).
Hope this helps but it definitely would not have been a 'civvie' on the cockpit seat unless they were known. Sadly those happy days ended in 2001 and we all know why.
Wiggy, the only cabin crew who can be displaced in the manner you suggest is either a trainee who is surplus to crew requirements or a cabin crew member deadheading as a passenger. It is not allowed to displace an operating crewmember for any reason. They must be at their correct stations.
It is quite possible that if the cockpit jumpseat was used then it could have been a KLM crewmember even if they were not in uniform. There are several pilots based at BRS and some deadhead or XCM to AMS (a sort of write your own ticket system of travel- although they have to be in uniform to qualify).
Hope this helps but it definitely would not have been a 'civvie' on the cockpit seat unless they were known. Sadly those happy days ended in 2001 and we all know why.
Wiggy, the only cabin crew who can be displaced in the manner you suggest is either a trainee who is surplus to crew requirements or a cabin crew member deadheading as a passenger. It is not allowed to displace an operating crewmember for any reason. They must be at their correct stations.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Calgary
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the cockpit??
We can't even carry one of own pilots in our own jumpseat through UK airspace (let alone land at LHR) unless he is an authorized member of the crew, in other words not travelling on a pass for holiday type of thing!
signed,
...a pilot for an Airline in Canada
signed,
...a pilot for an Airline in Canada
I'm an ATCO and I've had a jump seat flight since 2001 into the UK from europe. ID90 ticket, flight was full.
The airline? Don't want to say but they don't hold for long when I'm working.
The airline? Don't want to say but they don't hold for long when I'm working.
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: slightly left of you
Age: 43
Posts: 362
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
there could have been a crew member who was on an xcm ticket seated in the cabin but then asked to move to the fd jumpseat when someone realised flight was still overbooked when c/in closed. Was it a F70 or a 73? Positioning crew do not appear in codeco so crew member could have appeared before checkin was closed. many possibilities.
Stop stop stop
Thanks for the clarification regarding KLM- In "our" lot ( UK major) we can displace a working Cabin Crew member to the flight deck but with the obvious caveat that all the doors are covered.
Thanks for the clarification regarding KLM- In "our" lot ( UK major) we can displace a working Cabin Crew member to the flight deck but with the obvious caveat that all the doors are covered.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The world's biggest beach
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jumpseat access clarifacation
Jumpseats aren't stopped!
ATCOs are allowed on the flightdeck of UK registered carriers providing Captain has authority in advance from airline ops.
At Heathrow we have access to BMI, BA, Lingus and Virgin.
With regards to non UK operators, I know from first and second hand that ATCOs can get flight deck access ad hoc if a passenger on a flight, Lufty, Air France and Ali are all very flexible with regard to this.
ATCOs are allowed on the flightdeck of UK registered carriers providing Captain has authority in advance from airline ops.
At Heathrow we have access to BMI, BA, Lingus and Virgin.
With regards to non UK operators, I know from first and second hand that ATCOs can get flight deck access ad hoc if a passenger on a flight, Lufty, Air France and Ali are all very flexible with regard to this.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Put simply, the UK is the only country still restricting the flight deck jump seat to employee's of the company or 'approved' personnel. (CAA permission required)
The rest of Europe have since 2001 stuck a finger up at the USA and allowed passengers on the flight deck. In fact even the US now has slacker procedures compared to the UK, we are their Turkeys after all.
If the press want to do something useful for a change they could do an investigation into why the UK are so up the Americans posterior on security when even the yanks are relaxing....or is it because we have more potential terrorists living in our communities than they do..
What do you think.....
The rest of Europe have since 2001 stuck a finger up at the USA and allowed passengers on the flight deck. In fact even the US now has slacker procedures compared to the UK, we are their Turkeys after all.
If the press want to do something useful for a change they could do an investigation into why the UK are so up the Americans posterior on security when even the yanks are relaxing....or is it because we have more potential terrorists living in our communities than they do..
What do you think.....
Ut Sementem Feeceris
A Cabin Crew member should never give up their seat for a pax and ride jump seat! Cabin crew are required to be at their "station" for take-off and landing in case it all goes horribly wrong.
There are always rumours regarding jump seats and non-locked doors by some countries. But flying into UK airspace it's a requirement...... and I'm fully satisfied that it is complied with by ALL carriers........
I can't even take my Dad on a jolly anymore.....
A4
There are always rumours regarding jump seats and non-locked doors by some countries. But flying into UK airspace it's a requirement...... and I'm fully satisfied that it is complied with by ALL carriers........
I can't even take my Dad on a jolly anymore.....
A4
ATCOs are allowed on the flightdeck of UK registered carriers providing Captain has authority in advance from airline ops.
That's just the problem, too rigid a procedure. Fortunately a fair number of non UK / non US carriers continue to use common sense as far as this is concerned. I don't blame UK / US crews, they have to comply with company rules.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In my own little world
Posts: 776
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Plenty of airlines are still allowing people to ride on the f/deck j/seat, on some you don't even need to be airline staff either !!. Plenty of pics online clearly showing this. Some of them are also European Airlines !!.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well I tried to get a jump seat from ams-ala and back, by asking, "is it possible for me to sit in the flight deck" during boarding and both times the flight attendants had confusion written on their faces but then they smile and say no sorry. I also tried to get a jump seat from yyz-ams and back (it was a 744) but for some reason there were 4 pilots in the cabin both legs so I didn't bother. Any one know why KLM had 4 pilots on flight deck? Maybe they were SFO? I doubt that they were spare crews since the flight was only 7 hours.
The Cooler King
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: In the Desert
Posts: 1,703
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are countless numbers of airlines who allow passengers on the flightdeck using a jumpseat.
Happens all the time over here on overbooked flights. They will usually give preference to airside pass holders and swap them with pax. But I have seen many a passenger ride up front.
On many occasions, I have selflessly offered up my seat in economy in order to save a fellow traveller the discomfort for a jumpseat ride
Happens all the time over here on overbooked flights. They will usually give preference to airside pass holders and swap them with pax. But I have seen many a passenger ride up front.
On many occasions, I have selflessly offered up my seat in economy in order to save a fellow traveller the discomfort for a jumpseat ride